IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 4961 - 4980
From: Sachin P Keshavan <>
Subject: Re: Calling on signals
Date: 08 Jan 1999 06:29:56 -0500
Hi All,
As per my knowledge, the calling on signal is also meant to repeat the
signal aspect of another signal. And may be the calling on signal has
some meaning like a speed restriction or something like that :-) The
attention signal (two oranges) and caution signal (one orange) will be
indicating some speed restrictions to the driver, am I right?
Sachin.
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From: Krishnan Anand <>
Subject: More queries on signals
Date: 08 Jan 1999 08:42:05 -0500
Hi all,
Further to Sachin's question i also want to know if the double
orange signal has a different meaning too. I have noticed in Chennai
that when it is double orange it always a EMU local that plies on that
line and the signal changes to red after the EMU passing. Same is also
noted for a goods passing. What are all the interpreations possible this
way ?
ind regads
>From: "Sachin P Keshavan" <sachin_pk@hotmail.email
>T>o: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Calling on signals
>Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 06:29:56 PST
>Hi All,
> As per my knowledge, the calling on signal is also meant to repeat
>the
>signal aspect of another signal. And may be the calling on signal has
>some meaning like a speed restriction or something like that :-) The
>attention signal (two oranges) and caution signal (one orange) will >be
>indicating some speed restrictions to the driver, am I right?
>Sachin.
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From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: We are off to Wankaner
Date: 08 Jan 1999 08:58:03 -0500
Gang !
Viraf, Sarosh, Shriniwas and I are off the Wankaner, Morbi, Maliya
Miyana etc tomorrow
(9th till 12th) to see the the YPs and the YGs. So you will not hear
from us for a few
days but our thoughts will be with you. Pictures, sound recordings, tour
report,
webpage all coming up soon. We will take care to record as many facts as
possible as
now that we represent a sizable chunk of humanity.
Apurva
From: Rajan Mathew <>
Subject: Re: Voltage drop -- AC and DC
Date: 08 Jan 1999 09:48:08 -0500
There are occasions when the Mumbai Suburban network - 1500V DC
especially
the Central line suffer from major drops. All the trains end up crawling
one
behind the other. A few months back, it took me 25-30 minutes for my
train
(a packed evening Karjat bound fast local) to do the stretch between
Matunga
and Sion - a distance of less than 2 kms.
Rajan
From: Shanku Niyogi <>
Subject: Website
Date: 08 Jan 1999 11:23:51 -0500
Folks,
I am putting together a prototype for an IRFCA website which, in
addition to
all the regular sections, would feature a kind of monthly webzine format
to
get people to take interest.
Would anyone care to volunteer one of their past postings/web pages
(travelogues, features on a given loco, etc.) for the prototype? It
would
require a page or so of text, with maybe two or three (or more)
pictures.
Thanks,
Shanku
From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: electrical safety and overhead wires
Date: 08 Jan 1999 11:32:28 -0500
>Apurva, apurva! Them's harsh words :) Have you sampled the joys of the
>roof? It can be heavenly. I remember a wonderful evening on the roof
>of Bikaner Mail from Sursar to Ratangarh. It was a moonlit night and
>the desert had cooled off by then. There were many of us on the
>roof. The train runs at a decent clip but isn't really fast. The sand
>doesn't fly much at that hour and the wind feels nice on the skin. And
>you can see for miles.
>
>Of course, the Bikaner-Rewari line is not electrified. And yes, I had
>no reservation...
>
I second that. There certainly is no greater pleasure than travelling on
the
top of a train, better still atop the locomotive on the tender. One
occasion
when I regretted it was when we faced a storm on top of the esrtwhile
Awadh
Tirhut Mail, one of my bag's strap broke and flew off(with money,
passport,
camera and all) and it rained cats and dogs for full three hours before
we
could get down and recover. Looking back and realising that we survived
it,
even those are sweet memories now.
Apurva, DC current is even more dangerous even if the voltage is low.
With
AC you stand a chance to survive(though burnt for life) if you are not
completely grounded but with DC you're gone the moment you touch it.
Not just MG and NG but even BG trains are fun and are safer because of
the
wide berths. Hardened guys can even fall asleep on top of a BG coach at
90-100 kmph. But
it was too thrilling for me to try and do that!
HARSH
From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: electrical safety and overhead wires
Date: 08 Jan 1999 11:43:08 -0500
>On another list (US railfans) I mentioned that India had a lot of OH
wire.
>Somebody asked if, given the stereotype of Indians traveling on the
roofs,
>that led to a lot of electrocutions.
>
>Has anybody seen anyone crazy enough to ride on a roof in electrified
territory?
I think travelling on the rooftop has never been out of fashion on IR,
OH
wire or no OH cable. It is a peculiar phenomenom on the unelectrified
subarban commuter trains although the EMUs did'nt really have much
problem
with these ten years back or so.
And then came the blockbuster hindi film called `Tezzab'(acid) in which
the
hero Anil Kapur is shown travelling standing straight(inches away from
the
cable), bare chested on top of an EMU going after the goons who have
abducted his heroine(Madhuri Dixit). God only knows why they were
allowed to
shoot this of stuff or whether by travelling on the top he can actually
reach early - don't ask me al these questions, there are no answers. But
since then this has became quite a regular feature on the the Bombay
EMUs. I
guess the first few ended up as `Columbuses discovering that standing
straight isn't possible' so the crop that I see currently sit on their
knees at the sloping edge of the roof.
There are places like Kanpur, Mughalsarai and Asansol etc. where there
are
regular electrocution accidents on trains coming from unelectrified
territory into electrified one. But these are generally ignorant
illiterate
people who do not know what they are doing unlike the Bombay lot, tired
of
life. Now it is one of the duties of the GRP in these places to force
people
down at the last station.
HARSH
From: Anurag Acharya <>
Subject: riding on the roof :)
Date: 08 Jan 1999 11:47:02 -0500
>I gather from reading your email that there is definately a sence of
joy
>when riding on top. They say the same things about bungee jumping,
race
>car driving, and other stunts. But there is always a group of people
who
>never return who can never tell about the last few seconds of living.
Don
>in WV
Hi Don: yes, it is dangerous even on the metre gauge lines. But
believe me, it can be a wonderful experience.... And then there is an
age when one believes one is indestructible.... :)
There are few (if any) bridges and no tunnels on the Bikaner-Rewari
line. And the trains average 40kmph (rarely more than 60). And few
sharp turns. A moonlit ride through a cooled off desert night can be
a dream-like pleasure, hard to replicate. Riding on the roof is
dangerous, but *if* any one would to try it, I would recommend this
line :)
cheers,
anurag
ps: this was many many years ago. I haven't taken these trains for
a long time now....
From: Madhav Acharya <>
Subject: Is this true ?
Date: 08 Jan 1999 11:47:55 -0500
Hi all
I found this on the web - is this true ?
Madhav
**********************
The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4
feet,
8.5 inches.That’s an
exceedingly odd number.
Why was that gauge used? Because that’s the way they built them in
England, and the USrailroads were
built by English expatriates.
why did the English people build them like that? Because the first
rail lines were built by the same people
who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that’s the gauge they
used.
Why did *they* use that gauge then? Because the people who built
the
tramways used the same jigs and
tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel
spacing.
Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they
tried to use any other spacing the
wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads,
because
that’s the spacing of the old wheel
ruts.
So who built these old rutted roads?The first long distance roads
in
Europe were built by Imperial Rome
for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever
since.
And the ruts? Roman war chariots first made the initial ruts,
which
everyone else had to match for fear of
destroying their wagons. Since the chariots were made for or by
Imperial Rome they were all alike in the
matter of wheel spacing.
Thus, we have the answer to the original question...
The United State standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches
derives from the original specification
(Military Spec) for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. MilSpecs
and
Bureaucracies live forever. So,
the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what
horse’s
ass came up with it, you may be
exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be
just wide enough to accommodate
the back-ends of two war-horses.
From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: One eyed WDM 2
Date: 08 Jan 1999 12:01:30 -0500
>ooh... is there more than one nose type for WDMs's???
>I've never seen a low nose WDM2, but of course my experience is
>limited by my location!
>
Low nose WDM2s(Jumbos) are all based at Ludhiana and Pune(Any more? Pls
let
me know). They were built to increase the otherwise poor driver
visibility.
But they were not convenient either(Indian drivers used to WDM 2s
all-round
view did not like the front only restricted view) and had the problem of
to-be-rotated at the end of every journey. The drivers preferred the
access
and ease of handling controls in a regular WDM2.
HARSH
From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: Axle brushes
Date: 08 Jan 1999 12:06:08 -0500
>The mystery of the heavy current returning from the body of the loco to
the
rails is
>solved. There is a brushing contact known as an 'axle brush' in the
'axle
box' which
>is used to tranfer heavy traction currents to the wheels and ultimately
to
the rails.
>Hence the bearings would not be used as a electrical conductors,
however if
the 'axle
>brush' fails, the bearings would conduct the return current. This info
was
found in
>the glossary section of the railway technical resource page.
><A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8788/index.html">http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8788/index.html</A>
>I'll check this up on my next visit to the electric loco shed at Pune.
Apurva,
You can check this with the diesel loco shed guys also.
HARSH
From: Neki Impex S.A. <>
Subject: Re: Is this true ?
Date: 08 Jan 1999 13:44:26 -0500
>Hi all
>
> I found this on the web - is this true ?
>
>Madhav
Is this true?
Unfortunately not
For more details visit:
<A HREF="http://www.qnx.com/~glen/deadbeef/1897.html">http://www.qnx.com/~glen/deadbeef/1897.html</A>
Regards
Suresh
<A HREF="http://www.trainweb.org/panama">http://www.trainweb.org/panama</A>
At 02:47 PM 08-01-99 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi all
>
> I found this on the web - is this true ?
>
>Madhav
>
>**********************
>
> The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4
feet,
>8.5 inches.That’¡Çs an
> exceedingly odd number.
>
> Why was that gauge used? Because that’¡Çs the way they built
them in
>England, and the USrailroads were
> built by English expatriates.
>
> why did the English people build them like that? Because the
first
>rail lines were built by the same people
> who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that’¡Çs the gauge
they used.
>
> Why did *they* use that gauge then? Because the people who built
the
>tramways used the same jigs and
> tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel
>spacing.
>
> Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if
they
>tried to use any other spacing the
> wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads,
because
>that’¡Çs the spacing of the old wheel
> ruts.
>
> So who built these old rutted roads?The first long distance roads
in
>Europe were built by Imperial Rome
> for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever
>since.
>
> And the ruts? Roman war chariots first made the initial ruts,
which
>everyone else had to match for fear of
> destroying their wagons. Since the chariots were made for or by
>Imperial Rome they were all alike in the
> matter of wheel spacing.
>
> Thus, we have the answer to the original question...
> The United State standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches
>derives from the original specification
> (Military Spec) for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. MilSpecs
and
>Bureaucracies live forever. So,
> the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what
horse’¡Çs
> ass came up with it, you may be
> exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to
be
>just wide enough to accommodate
> the back-ends of two war-horses.
>
>
>
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>
Subject: Re: Calling on signals
Date: 08 Jan 1999 15:57:39 -0500
Dear Apurva -- and gang,
Signalling practice often changes over time, and devices adapted
for
one purpose may be converted to other uses. For that reason, I can't
comment
on current practice at VT or Central!
But "calling-on" arms go back to the days of block signalling and
steam
engines. Basically, their original use was to "call on" a locomotive or
a
rake (propelled by a loco) into a track (often but not always at a
terminal)
which was already occupied by stock. For safe-working reasons, it was
obviously necessary to bring the approaching stock or loco to a stand,
and
then have it proceed dead slow into the platform road. The "calling-on"
arm
served this function. The Home signal protecting the platform road would
be
left ON (at stop) and the "calling-on" arm cleared, once the approaching
loco/stock had come to a stand. That was fairly easy back in the days
when
the platform was clearly visible for the signal box!
Here in Australia, "calling-on" is sometimes acheived by means of a
yellow light below a double red -- it means "proceed at dead slow speed,
prepared to stop at any obstruction". Obviously, there are various other
possible uses for the principle. As signal systems tend to evolve in
response to local needs, there must no doubt be many variations!
Cheers from
Ken Walker
-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email Muhammed A. Khan <ashiane@erols.email
Date: Friday, 8 January 1999 9:05
Subject: Calling on signals
>Gang!
>
>What is the exact purpose of the 'calling on' signal ? Many trains
>approaching Mumbai CSTM are stopped at the home signal. After a few
>minutes wait, a lighted 'C' appears on smaller lamp near the home
>signals and the train slowly moves onto the platform. I know the
>official explanation that the calling on signal is used to permit a
>rake to move to the platform line in event of the signal malfunction
>or obstruction on the tracks. But then the track at CSTM is clear
>with nothing standing on them. So why is the 'calling on' signal
>used ?
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: More queries on signals
Date: 08 Jan 1999 16:54:24 -0500
Sachin & Anand,
The double yellow signal (in a four aspect colour light signal territory
- correct
technical name means MACL - multiple aspect colour light) means that the
next signal
is yellow and the one after that is red. The double yellow means that
the driver
should get his train in control as the next signal is a single or double
yellow and
the one after that is red where he must stop.
As soon as a train enters the territory that was protected by the double
yellow
signal, it is now occupying the tracks, hence the signal turns red, thus
blocking any
other train from entering the same section. Once this train leaves this
section, and
if this is an automatic section (like suburban Mumbai, possibly Chennai)
another train
can be admitted in the section and the signal will turn yellow and still
after the
train moves into the second section after that this, the signal would
turn double
yellow and green after the train is in the third section. Automatic
territory can be
readily identified by the 'normally green' aspect of the signal. If
there is no train
in the sections ahead, the signal will be green.
The introduction of air braked rakes in the Mumbai - Pune section has
meant that the
drivers now work their trains at full speeds through double yellow,
knowing fully well
that the rake can be controlled within the next section in the event of
having to face
a red lamp in the section after this. Earlier, on vacuum braked rakes,
the driver
would slow down his train at the sight of a double yellow signal, as his
braking
distances were more.
Apurva
Krishnan Anand wrote:
> Hi all,
> Further to Sachin's question i also want to know if the double
> orange signal has a different meaning too. I have noticed in Chennai
> that when it is double orange it always a EMU local that plies on that
> line and the signal changes to red after the EMU passing. Same is also
> noted for a goods passing. What are all the interpreations possible
this
> way ?
>
> ind regads
>
> >From: "Sachin P Keshavan" <sachin_pk@hotmail.email
> >T>o: irfca@cs.email
> >Subject: Re: Calling on signals
> >Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 06:29:56 PST
>
> >Hi All,
> > As per my knowledge, the calling on signal is also meant to repeat
> >the
> >signal aspect of another signal. And may be the calling on signal has
> >some meaning like a speed restriction or something like that :-) The
> >attention signal (two oranges) and caution signal (one orange) will
>be
> >indicating some speed restrictions to the driver, am I right?
>
> >Sachin.
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>
> ______________________________________________________
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From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: The YDM 3 loco
Date: 08 Jan 1999 20:50:37 -0500
While the first two locos featured(forgetting the No.s now) here are
indeed
rare YDM 3s(1B-B1). The third one is even more rare YDM 5(C-C). While
both
are essentially the same diesel electric transmission types built by
GM(based on elder brother WDM4).
These are my favorite diesel locomotives if any and score much better
than
their counterpart Alcos but unfortunately the railway brass thought
otherwise.
HARSH
-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 8:37 AM
Subject: The YDM 3 loco
>Gang !
>
>With reference to Viraf and Sarosh's latest pics uploaded by Prakash.
><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/irfca/thats.htm">http://members.tripod.com/irfca/thats.htm</A>
>
>I have come to like the YDM 3 loco very much. Not only is the short
hood
pretty, the
>long hood has lots of personality too. I just love the rakish horn
trumpet
and the
>dinky marker lamps. The roof line profile is just right and I wonder if
the
height is
>critical which is why the horn is desperately placed just below the
roof
level. I also
>liked the crazy yellow stripe on the two hoods. There seems to be a
real
heavy duty
>cattle guard on this loco, more like a snow plough.
>With a two stroke (which has a gear driven 'Roots' blower rather than a
turbo
>charger?) prime mover must also sound great.
>
>I could also write a small note on what I like about the YDM 4, which
must
be THE
>prettiest diesel loco in India, but I shouldn't mix up issues.
>If you have seen this site yesterday, please go there again today,
there
are a few
>more YDMx pictures.
>
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
From: prakash <>
Subject: Re: electrical safety and overhead wires
Date: 08 Jan 1999 20:52:08 -0500
Harsh,
Please accept my apology for disagreeing with your statement.
> It is a peculiar phenomenon on the unelectrified suburban
> commuter trains although the EMUs didn't really have much
> problem with these ten years back or so.
I have been travelling in WR EMUs since 1959 and I will say
that this problem started when WR received first set of EMUs
by Jessop in early 60s. 1950 stock Metro Cammels had a ladder
to climb on roof top. However, every motorcoach had a driving
cab on one end. With panto on other end, ladder was too close
from panto for a joy ride.
Older 1928 BTH stock had a similar ladder but every motorcoach
also had two pantos. BTH stock was very notorious for jerky
motorcoaches making them unsuitable for joyrides. (NRM has
one such motorcoach)
With introduction of indigenous Jessop and ICF stock, situation
changed. Motorcoaches had only one panto, right above RPC
(Resistance Power Control) compartment, located behind driving
cab that was meant for shunting use only.
The only exception was 3000V DC MAN stock that WR received from
ER in early 70s which had two pantos per motorcoach. Again, it
was not an indigenous design.
Prakash
From: Krishnan Anand <>
Subject: Re: One eyed WDM 2
Date: 08 Jan 1999 21:57:50 -0500
Reply-To: "Harsh Vardhan" <hvc@vsnl.email
From: "Harsh Vardhan" <champa@del3.email
To: "Anne Ogborn" <anniepoo@netmagic.email "Apurva Bahadur"
<iti@vsnl.email
Cc: "IRFCA" <irfca@cs.email
Subject: Re: One eyed WDM 2
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 01:31:30 +0530
>ooh... is there more than one nose type for WDMs's???
>I've never seen a low nose WDM2, but of course my experience is
>limited by my location!
>
Low nose WDM2s(Jumbos) are all based at Ludhiana and Pune(Any more? Pls
let
me know). They were built to increase the otherwise poor driver
visibility.
But they were not convenient either(Indian drivers used to WDM 2s
all-round
view did not like the front only restricted view) and had the problem of
to-be-rotated at the end of every journey. The drivers preferred the
access
and ease of handling controls in a regular WDM2.
HARSH
Hi all,
I have seen low nose WDM2 based at Erode and Guntakal/Gooty sheds also.
Last time when i travelled by 6011/6012 it was hauled by a low nose
Jumbo from the Guntakal/Gooty shed. My friends tell me that there are
similar ones based at Kazipet shed too. I guess they are all scattered.
I saw a pair (that is a rare sight) of low nose WDGs heading a big
container formation at Aluva station in Kerala last month. So there are
quite some low nosed Jumbos around.
Anand.K
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From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: electrical safety and overhead wires
Date: 08 Jan 1999 23:36:42 -0500
->I have been travelling in WR EMUs since 1959 and I will say
>that this problem started when WR received first set of EMUs
>by Jessop in early 60s.
Dear Prakash,
This indeed is news to me. But has there been
any
change in the quantum of these jokers out for the `joyrides'! And when I
say
that, i mean taking into consideration the increase in population. I
have
seen rare sights of people on top of the bombay EMUs before '86 also
but
find that this madness has increased much since then. Lately, I have
also
seen guys hanging outside with their feet on windows clutching the thin
and
sharp rainwater gully at the edge of the roof. This is even more
dangerous
position as you liable to be killed through so many reasons and not just
electrocution. Once I had the bad luck of witnessing one such accident
at
Kurla.
Somehow travelling on top of the EMUs has never caught on in Delhi.
Smart
guys eh!?
HARSH
From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: Some notes on the WDP 2
Date: 09 Jan 1999 00:49:33 -0500
->I was also in doubt about the WDM 7 which I saw recently on a trip to
>Mangalore. It was seen to bring in the 2620 up on to the platform prior
to
>departure, was green and yellow, from the Ernakulam shed. I later met
Mr.
>I.S. Anand who explained to me that this was a BG made over the MG
engine
ie
>that the engine was originally used for MG (of lower power) and used
for
>light loads and tracks. I have misplaced the paper on which I noted the
>exact number but indeed my memory says it was of the 11000 series.
Dear Rajan and others,
Only 15 WDM7(Co-Co DE) were built by DLW in 1987-89, are numbered
between
11001-15 and are based at SR's Ernakulam and Erode sheds. They have a
longer
body than WDM2 though they use same bogie and wheels. They have much
less
weight of 96 t compared to 113 t of WDM2. At lower axle load of 16 t
they
were designed for branch line passenger duties and are now relegated to
shunting jobs only. They may be thought of as the forerunners of the
current
WDPx series. At 1800 Hp their engine power is a far cry from the 1300 Hp
of
a metre gauge engine.
HARSH
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: [Fwd: Traction current
Date: 09 Jan 1999 01:32:24 -0500