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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Some notes on the WDP 2

Date: 26 Dec 1998 04:43:13 -0500


Gang !

The WDP 2 picture was given to me by I.S. Anand of Mumbai, whom I am
trying desperately to join the IRFCA. He has mounds of such 'inside'
info. But lack of a computer/internet and preference for other
priorities sadly prevents him from joining us right away.
The looks of the WDP 2 are clearly derived from the WDG 4 (the yet to
arrive or being assembled GT 46 MAC). Thus there would be some family
resemblance. Given the quantity that the IR consumes, India would be
awash soon with this family of similar lookers. The IR seems to have a
fetish for waist height headlights. The WAPx and this locos have low
level headlights. WAP 1-3 frankly looks very ugly (in my opinion only -
hold those stones please) because of the low headlight and the attempted
streamlining. With this loco IR seems to have accepted the twin sealed
beam type headlamps which are standard all over the world but in India.
How great this loco and the WAP 1 - 3 would have looked, had they got
the headlights at the roof level. Come to think of it ALL the Indian
locos WDM 2s, WAM 4s, YDM 4s, DMUs would look great with the twin sealed
headlamps high near the roof line. The flasher would have to be mounted
even higher. The prime mover of the WDP 2 and its alternator is fully
hooded - there is no catwalk outside, there may be a aisle inside but
there are no portholes or windows. How does the aisle go within the
radiator room ? Note also the one piece cattle guard rather than the
lattice item that is standard on the IR, this is more like a snow
plough. The ladder to the cab is the familiar 'climb up, shift to the
left in the midair, push the heavy door open and then enter' type of
item. All this while the driver /assistant carries a heavy bag on their
shoulders while boarding the loco from some goods/ shed line without
platform. The large trunk that carries the driver's supply would also be
loaded similarly.

Are there any twin cab locos in the world in which the two cabs are not
connected by a corridor ?
The single headlight standard on the IR is 250 Watts. What is the power
of the twin sealed units and whether there is a site regarding
international locomotive lighting ?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Technical resouces on the internet

Date: 26 Dec 1998 05:32:41 -0500


Gang !

I wonder if you have seen this page - contains a lot of FAQs about
technical stuff like traction, brakes etc.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8788/index.html">http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8788/index.html</A>

Apurva

From: Madhav Acharya <>

Subject: Re: Some notes on the WDP 2

Date: 26 Dec 1998 06:50:51 -0500


Comments on the WDP-2 - it definitely looks like the WAP
series of locos only a lot uglier ! Part of the reason has to
be the livery of the loco - I presume IR is going to use it
in red or blue but please no dark green ! Also there appear
to be two headlights - one in the middle and one on top.
The loco might be superior in terms of hp and other stuff
but I will always remain a WDM-2 fan !

Madhav

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: 10 killed in India as train rams into bus

Date: 26 Dec 1998 08:48:16 -0500


10 killed in India as train rams into bus

Saturday, December 26, 1998
SF Chronicle


(12-26) 01:48 EST NEW DELHI, India (AP) -- A train
rammed into a bus that was crossing railroad tracks
in eastern India today, killing 10 people and
injuring five others, domestic news agencies
reported.

Railway officials said impatient bus passengers, who
had been waiting for an ``all clear'' signal at the
crossing, snatched the keys from the guard and
forcibly opened the gate to pass through, the Press
Trust of India reported.

While the bus was crossing the tracks, a freight
train came at full speed and crashed into the bus.
The accident occurred near Dhanbad in eastern
Bihar state, about 660 miles southeast of New Delhi.

All the victims were bus passengers. The train's
speed was not immediately available.

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: New EMD locos

Date: 26 Dec 1998 13:44:51 -0500


Issue 116 of the US magazine "Extra 2200 South" has a couple of black &
white photos and a paragraph on the new IR locomotives coming from EMD
in London, Ontario, Canada. The locos are on wooden cribbing on
flatcars.

If anybody is interested, I can scan the photos, put them in my web
space and email you the URL. I will not of course post this to the
list. And please, only my friends in places where this magazine is not
available - I have no interest in compromising the magazine's copyright.

Thanks,
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Sound files of locos

Date: 26 Dec 1998 15:19:35 -0500


Hi Annie,
And season's greetings. Sure, we've all had problems with unruly
children. The worst, without doubt, are railway kids. Blackspots for
them
include Daund, Kurduvadi, the railway settlement just south of Udaipur
City,
and, no doubt, numerous others. But I can tell many stories of the kids
being good. Most spectacular was a spot out near the end of the
Ranchi-Lohardaga mineral line, where a whole kindergarten class, with
teachers, came and sat behind us during a prolonged session -- and we
didn't
get a peep out of them. I've had similar success with small groups of
adults
and older children, especially if things are explained to them. Taking a
picture of them helps, too.
You can never predict, of course, and there have been some places
where
ambient kids simply made any kind of photography or recording
impossible.
It's simply a matter of playing it by ear.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
To: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <kjw_meh@powerup.email
Cc: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email IRFCA - mailing list
<irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, 26 December 1998 11:44
Subject: Re: Sound files of locos


>(Though I have often found
>> that simply asking any bystanders politely to be quiet while filming
is
>> going on can be very effective, too. Many of your countrymen are
highly
>> courteous.)
>
>Dr. Walker -
> I should send you some video I made in Singur. I wnated to get some
>background footage for a video, and a friend offered to take me out to
>a beautiful natural spot nearby.
> As we went through the fields all the village children followed us,
>making a huge uproar. When I finally explained my plight, that I
couldn't
>take sound through the shouting, they shouted even louder!
>
>One of my more memorable, if not productive, attempts to shoot video in
India. 8^)
>
>Annie
>

From: Vdate <>

Subject: Re: WDP 2 locomotive

Date: 26 Dec 1998 16:48:23 -0500


Thanks for the picture and the write up. I assume it will first appear
on a
SR route. When WDP2 become more common and begin to be used throughout
India,
will they be maintained only by Golden Rock shed?

From: Larry Russell <>

Subject: Re: WDP 2 locomotive

Date: 26 Dec 1998 20:14:05 -0500




Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> Hola Amigos,
>
> These is the first picture of the new loco WDP 2 with the writeup of
the
> Railways.
> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html</A>
>
> Have a look and get back with your comments.
>
> Apurva

Nice Picture! Saw this being constructed at DLW in February. Paint
scheme
is different than any I've seen before. Any idea how many are on order?

As a side issue, when I was in Ahmedabad, I saw a WDM2 with a US style
low
nose (not the wide nose of the rebuilds that IR or DLW did). At DLW
there
were also a couple of more cabs and noses in the same style. Has anyone
else seen these?
Larry

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Some notes on the WDP 2

Date: 26 Dec 1998 23:07:14 -0500




Madhav Acharya wrote:

> Comments on the WDP-2 - it definitely looks like the WAP
> series of locos only a lot uglier ! Part of the reason has to
> be the livery of the loco - I presume IR is going to use it
> in red or blue but please no dark green ! Also there appear
> to be two headlights - one in the middle and one on top.

That is the flasher light (50 Watts) the driver is supposed to switch on
to attract
the attention of the oncoming train, in the eventuality of a mishap. The
flasher is
also switched on when the two locos shunting in close proximity like on
a yard line.

>
> The loco might be superior in terms of hp and other stuff
> but I will always remain a WDM-2 fan !
You are not alone !

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: WDP 2 locomotive

Date: 26 Dec 1998 23:08:39 -0500




Larry Russell wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > Hola Amigos,
> >
> > These is the first picture of the new loco WDP 2 with the writeup of
the
> > Railways.
> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html</A>
> >
> > Have a look and get back with your comments.
> >
> > Apurva
>
> Nice Picture! Saw this being constructed at DLW in February. Paint
scheme
> is different than any I've seen before. Any idea how many are on
order?

Yo Larry, did you go inside the shell at DLW ? I am curious about the
location of the
corridor between the two cabs, specially how it crosses the radiator
room. What must
be the prime mover in this loco - same Alco V 16 with a improved turbo
? What other
improvements - regearing for passenger duties, high adhesion bogie
(required for a
passenger loco ?), electronics ??
I remember that the bogie/ truck of a WDG 2 is very much different from
the WDM 2. It
is much longer and the three wheels are evenly placed. It is the same
bogie that the
WCAM 3 uses. Will get pics of that soon. From this pic the bogies seem
similar to the
WDG 2 items.

> As a side issue, when I was in Ahmedabad, I saw a WDM2 with a US
style low
> nose (not the wide nose of the rebuilds that IR or DLW did). At DLW
there
> were also a couple of more cabs and noses in the same style. Has
anyone
> else seen these?

I can only imagine that loco, the latest at Pune have been the 'rounded
forehead' WDG
2 and I have heard of of a normal 'half a hexagon' WDG 2 sighted at
Lonavala. Did the
low nosed locos that you saw at ADI have the rest of the body of a WDM
2?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: WDP 2 locomotive in Chennai

Date: 26 Dec 1998 23:10:12 -0500




Vdate@aol.email wrote:

> Thanks for the picture and the write up. I assume it will first
appear on a
> SR route. When WDP2 become more common and begin to be used
throughout India,
> will they be maintained only by Golden Rock shed?

This was a promotional release of the Southern Railways which I have
scanned. Remember
that the Egmore - Trichy MG section used to host the fastest MG trains
in India, the
Vaigai and the Pandian Express. So I suppose the quality conscious SR
would like to
continue the same tradition of fast and long trains now that they are on
the BG. The
GOC shed is one of the the most qualified on the IR to maintain such
locos. However
the WDG 4 (the EMD SD 45 MAC) would be homed at Hubli in the very near
future. Note
that the Gooty shed has transferred all (or most) its WDM2 to the
Guntakal shed (which
was vacant with the demise of the MG). The GY shed now homes WDG 2s. Do
you see a
pattern here ? To run high capacity freight trains in the SCR and the SR
?
The average size of a freight near us today is approximately 40 wagons
of BCN / BCNA
class. Increasingly I observe WDM 2s handling freight even on the
electric sections. A
coupled Pune shed WDG 2s pair work freight trains almost at the same
time daily from
Pune to Karjat and back. The Down freight train can be seen between
Khadki and
Shivajinagar at around 1500 Hrs. I suppose this is the only time slot
available for
the freighter.
One more news is that soon we will have WCAG 1 locos in the Mumbai -
Pune - Igatpuri
sector. Although this is just a rumour but I would believe that these
will be regeared
WCAM 3s with probably more gradual transitions so at to allow really
heavy freight
trains up the ghats.

Apurva

From: Aki Momin <>

Subject: unsubscribe

Date: 27 Dec 1998 00:44:45 -0500


--
MZ

From: Aki Momin <>

Subject: (no subject)

Date: 27 Dec 1998 00:45:54 -0500


-- unsubscribe
MZ

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re: Mumbai Rail should adopt Chicago model

Date: 27 Dec 1998 13:06:48 -0500


Second the motion - look how succesful the Manila, Philippines, LRT has
been.
And running along traditional traffic corridors above swampy subsoil -
did
cause a lot of disruption during construction, though.

regards to all

Richard Yudin MCIT

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Mumbai Rail should adopt Chicago model

Date: 27 Dec 1998 14:33:06 -0500


Hi folks,
As a tram fan, I strongly favour LRVs and even heavy rail where
needed. I
have long thought that Els would provide a quick and utilitarian
solution to
the suburban transport problem in Indian cities. The Calcutta Metro
project
proved just how disruptive a sub-surface approach could be under Indian
conditions. New investment in the tramway system could probably acheive
more, much more cheaply. The new Madras urban rail link is partly on
elevated structure, though in modern concrete.
However, given Indian loading conditions and the probable weight of
the
trains, the structures are going to look more like New York than
Chicago, as
the latter uses lightweight stock. To get a flavour, go out to East
Broadway
in Jamaica, NY, and look at the overhead junction there. Even with
modern
materials such as reinforced concrete, this is big, heavy stuff.
Another option, and not directly competitive, is to borrow from
Curitiba
in Brazil, where the city has instituted a sort of "bus rapid transit"
system, using reserved lanes in the roads, physically separated from
other
traffic, and with an organised system of platforms, etc. It has
apparently
been very successful, freeing the buses from their major defect, getting
bogged down in traffic. (it can't deal with the acute discomfort of most
pongmobiles, though!) I doubt if the Curitiba system could help
alleviate
urban congestion in the big metropolises by itself, but it could help
get
some of the load off overcrowded rail corridors, that would still be a
gain.
Someone mentioned rail access to the airports -- this would be a
real
boon, as would anything that stopped the sorts of rackets that go on in
places like Bombay.
Seasons greetings to all
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: FyffesFL@aol.email <FyffesFL@aol.email
To: prakash@us.email <prakash@us.email irfca@cs.email
<irfca@cs.email
Date: Monday, 28 December 1998 7:15
Subject: Re: Mumbai Rail should adopt Chicago model


>Second the motion - look how succesful the Manila, Philippines, LRT has
been.
>And running along traditional traffic corridors above swampy subsoil -
did
>cause a lot of disruption during construction, though.
>
>regards to all
>
>Richard Yudin MCIT
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: New EMD locos

Date: 27 Dec 1998 21:45:14 -0500


Craig - we in India do not get this mag and would be keen to see a scan
of
the pics and the article.

Apurva

C.L.Zeni wrote:

> Issue 116 of the US magazine "Extra 2200 South" has a couple of black
&
> white photos and a paragraph on the new IR locomotives coming from EMD
> in London, Ontario, Canada. The locos are on wooden cribbing on
> flatcars.
>
> If anybody is interested, I can scan the photos, put them in my web
> space and email you the URL. I will not of course post this to the
> list. And please, only my friends in places where this magazine is
not
> available - I have no interest in compromising the magazine's
copyright.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
>
> <A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: WDP 2 locomotive

Date: 27 Dec 1998 23:31:46 -0500


Thanks Doug,

I am forwarding this message for the gang to see and react to.

Apurva

Doug Cummings wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> To: Doug Cummings <ihp@istar.email
> Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: WDP 2 locomotive
>
> >
> >
> >Doug Cummings wrote:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> >> To: Larry Russell <lrussell@direct.email
> >> Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> >> Date: Sunday, December 27, 1998 12:59 AM
> >> Subject: Re: WDP 2 locomotive
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Larry Russell wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hola Amigos,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > These is the first picture of the new loco WDP 2 with the
writeup of
> >> the
> >> >> > Railways.
> >> >> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html</A>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Have a look and get back with your comments.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Apurva
> >> >>
> >> >> Nice Picture! Saw this being constructed at DLW in February.
Paint
> >> scheme
> >> >> is different than any I've seen before. Any idea how many are on
> order?
> >> >
> >> >Yo Larry, did you go inside the shell at DLW ? I am curious about
the
> >> location of the
> >> >corridor between the two cabs, specially how it crosses the
radiator
> room.
> >>
> >> There is no problem with walk ways down both sides of full carbody
> >> locomotives, the air intakes for the radiators are very high as are
the
> >> radiators themselves. Depending upon the size of the radiators,
they
> could
> >> be small enough to fit within the width of a normal hood for a
> roadswitcher
> >> style carbody, or if large the ducting passes over top of the area
where
> you
> >> would walk. I have been in many full carbody locomotives and this
has
> never
> >> been a problem. There is no "radiator room" as such.
> >
> >What about the huge radiator fan? One place the WDM 2 and YDM 4
pilots
> dread to
> >enter is the radiator room. Inspite of all the caution and vigilance,
the
> >radiator room has had its share of accidents. It is dark, draughty,
noisy
> and
> >slippery (the oil cooler is located here). The EMD locos seem to have
(I
> have
> >never seen one - India is mostly Alcos) three separate fans on the
top of
> the
> >hood.
>
> Alco had several styles of radiators. Switchers and older
roadswitchers had
> side mounted ones, newer locomotives had them mounted in the roof
area. The
> former used inward air flow and had one large fan. The radiator room
you
> speak of could only be entered from the end of the locomotive, through
a
> door, and you would have to be crazy to go in there with the engine
running.
> These locomotives were all switcher/roadswitcher style carbodies so
you
> never had to walk through the "radiator room" as you call it. The
newer
> style had the radiators mounted in angled banks near the roof and most
used
> several smaller fans to create the air flow, rather than one large
fan. Most
> GM switchers had front radiators and a big fan right behind the
radiator,
> and it was not wise to run them in reverse on the main line as this
limited
> the air flow through the radiator and could result in overheating.
>
> The cab locos I know have a corridor down both sides of the
locomotive,
> between the outer shell and the engine/generator, etc. The cab is
isolated
> from the engine compartment with an insulted wall, and there are doors
> inside the cab on each side to access the engine compartment, so you
can
> walk from one cab to the other easily. Single ended locomotives simply
had a
> cab only at one end, at the rear of the locomotive was one door which
> existed to the outside, or "B" units which had no cab had such a door
at
> each end.

From: KRISHNA T S <>

Subject: Re: WDP 2 locomotive

Date: 28 Dec 1998 02:22:55 -0500


The green and white color scheme as seen on the WDP2 pic is the norm for

all Golden Rock shed diesels, regardless of gauge. I was told by running

staff at Chennai Egmore that Southern Railway may have a few units in
the Blue and White Shatabdi and red and white Raj color schemes.
Trivandrum, Ernakulam, Palghat, Bangalore and Mangalore may also be
visited by some WDP2s. I'll keep my eyes open for any sightings of the
WDP2 at Egmore. My office is just down the road from Egmore stn and I
usually spend an hour or so everyday just wandering along the platforms.

The BG diesels rest right at the end of Platform 1 which is great for
train spotting.

Krishna


>From irfca-request@cs.email Sat Dec 26 01:18:00 1998
>Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu (root@mimsy.email [128.8.128.8])
> by hyena.cs.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA17085
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>Message-ID: <3684ABD2.E3425F30@vsnl.email
>Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:56:43 +0530
>From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
>Subject: WDP 2 locomotive
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Hola Amigos,
>
>These is the first picture of the new loco WDP 2 with the writeup of
the
>Railways.
><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html</A>
>
>Have a look and get back with your comments.
>
>Apurva
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: WDP 2 locomotive

Date: 28 Dec 1998 03:32:03 -0500




KRISHNA T S wrote:

> The green and white color scheme as seen on the WDP2 pic is the norm
for
> all Golden Rock shed diesels, regardless of gauge. I was told by
running
> staff at Chennai Egmore that Southern Railway may have a few units in
> the Blue and White Shatabdi and red and white Raj color schemes.
> Trivandrum, Ernakulam, Palghat, Bangalore and Mangalore may also be
> visited by some WDP2s.

Has Egmore started trains of BG - How does a BG train coming onto the
Egmore
track come to the MAS - Basin Bridge diamond for the rest of India ?

> I'll keep my eyes open for any sightings of the
> WDP2 at Egmore. My office is just down the road from Egmore stn and I
> usually spend an hour or so everyday just wandering along the
platforms.

Lucky ******* - I am envious !

> The BG diesels rest right at the end of Platform 1 which is great for
> train spotting.
>
> Krishna
>
> >From irfca-request@cs.email Sat Dec 26 01:18:00 1998
> >Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu (root@mimsy.email [128.8.128.8])
> > by hyena.cs.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA17085
> > for <irfca@hyena.email Sat, 26 Dec 1998 04:16:40 -0500
(EST)
> >Received: from giaspn01.vsnl.net.in (giaspn01.vsnl.net.in
> [202.54.10.1])
> > by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA20282
> > for <irfca@cs.email Sat, 26 Dec 1998 04:16:36 -0500 (EST)
> >Received: from vsnl.com (chr6_10.ppppun.vsnl.net.in [202.54.80.121])
> > by giaspn01.vsnl.net.in (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id OAA13429
> > for <irfca@cs.email Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:49:30 +0500
(GMT+0500)
> >Message-ID: <3684ABD2.E3425F30@vsnl.email
> >Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 14:56:43 +0530
> >From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
> >Subject: WDP 2 locomotive
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >
> >Hola Amigos,
> >
> >These is the first picture of the new loco WDP 2 with the writeup of
> the
> >Railways.
> ><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html</A>
> >
> >Have a look and get back with your comments.
> >
> >Apurva
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Technical resouces on the internet

Date: 28 Dec 1998 03:32:48 -0500

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