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From: prakash <>

Subject: Re: New 6000hp Alcos

Date: 15 Dec 1998 08:46:57 -0500




Apurva,

> One question to all of you - the Indian Alco during acceleration drops
the
> field excitation at around 39 Km/Hr and then picks up a fraction of a
second
>later, the engine (the prime mover) also cuts off for the same period.
This is
>where the series to parallel transition occurs, the jerk of this
transition
>can be felt noticeably in the loco as well as in the coaches if you are
paying
>attention. Does this happen in Australian, Canadian and other Alco
diesel
>electrics as well ?

This is typical to all locos with DC traction motors. AC motors do not
require this. The speed at transition point may vary and amount of jerk
has been reduced significantly these days, compared to older stock.

So the answer to your question is, all the North American locos (i.e. US
and Canada) with DC traction motors have the same characteristic
described by you.

Prakash

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: PNV - MAO express and other ideas

Date: 15 Dec 1998 08:50:36 -0500


> I agree with you fully that Panvel is a odd place to start a
> train, unless the CR also
> arranges a few EMUs which connect to the PNV from CSTM and
> Andheri. The railways knows
> fully well that NO ONE except gang in New Mumbai can reach
> Panvel at an early hour. So
> I had fantasized that they back the rake all the way via
> Vashi - Mankhurd - Chembur -
> to Kurla Suburban ! I cannot see any reason why this cannot
> happen in practice. If
> Kurla local station has no space, how about the dead end
> Mankhurd terminus ? I want
> Rajan's comments on this - he has seen and sketched the place
> in great details.

The line to Mankhurd terminus branches off the Vashi-Panvel line as one
proceeds East so as to serve locals arriving from Kurla-Chembur. So, a
train arriving from Panvel-Vashi has to reverse directions before it can
use
the terminus - not very appealing!! So either take the rake to Dadar
terminus or all the way to CSTM. Or route it via Thane if Kurla
terminus is
to be used.

Vijay

From: Philip Wormald <>

Subject: ALCO transition lurch!!

Date: 15 Dec 1998 13:40:40 -0500


Apurva,
>>One question to all of you - the Indian Alco during acceleration drops
the
field excitation at around 39 Km/Hr and then picks up a fraction of a
second
later, the engine (the prime mover) also cuts off for the same period.
This
is where the series to parallel transition occurs, the jerk of this
transition can be felt noticeably in the loco as well as in the coaches
if
you are paying attention. Does this happen in Australian, Canadian and
other
Alco diesel electrics as well ?<<

You hit the nail on the head there! Now this is worth talking about, I
would
say most ALCO engined Locos do this. But they certainly vary, in the cab
of
a DL500C in Greece, when this happens you hear the rapid switches of the
circuit breakers when this happens, a cloud of smoke goes up wards, and
I
have a big smile on my face!

The Greek MLW MX627s varied tremendously, from a very sedate transition,
to
the incredibly fierce Loco A-456 would was the LOUDEST Loco I have ever
heard, it had a French turbo fitted, and the whistle of a running down
turbo
made it an incredible machine.

I just returned from Tunisia were we had a good run on an MX620 with a
fierce transition, and good black smoke.

Also in Tunisia the BOMBARDIER MX624S Diesels (the last EVER built in
US/Canada) with ALCO engine in 1984. They have GE electronics, and these
monsters are generally extremely viscous on the transition change! Most
boring passengers don't notice this, but we love it every time we leave
a
station, and get thrown back in our seats!

Hope you like the comments,

Phil
PWormald@alco.email

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Blue Tiger Diesel Loco

Date: 15 Dec 1998 15:41:32 -0500


I read somewhere recently that the AdTranz Blue Tiger diesel electric
locomotive, designed mainly for Asian countries, was ordered (in numbers
of
about 30) by Pakistan Railways. Anyone on this list know if those
locomotives were delivered, and also if there has been any interest in
bringing the locomotive to IR?

For those interested in seeing this really bold locomotive, there are
some
pictures on the AdTranz web site, at:
<A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg</A>
and
<A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg</A>

Boy, something like this with a matched blue rake would really look nice
on
the Indian Railways, especially given the Indian tiger heritage - don't
you
think? The front windshield needs some work though - it looks a bit
plain.

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Anil's Travel Plan

Date: 15 Dec 1998 17:54:42 -0500



Hi Apppu,

Which part of India would Anil like to travel and what's the duration of
his trip.

Viraf.
>
> Any suggestions for Anil ?
>
>
> Anil Balchandani wrote:
>
> > Hello Apurva,
> > I am planning a trip to India and would like to travel by
train to some places. I need some advice and your opinion on some
plans. Please tell me if this you can render some help via email.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Anil
>

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Hee Hee Hee ! ! ! (fwd)

Date: 15 Dec 1998 19:56:03 -0500





>Toilets were introduced on Indian trains only after a passenger, Okhil
>Chandra Sen, wrote a letter in 1909 to the Sahibganj divisional office
>complaining about how he missed the train when he got down to attend to
>the call of nature.
>The Times of India recently reproduced the unedited letter.
>
>Dear Sir,
>I am arrive by passenger train Ahmedpur istation and belly
>is too much swelling with jackfruit. I am therefore went to privy. Just
>I doing the nuisance that guard making whistle blow for train to go off
>and I am running with 'lota' in one hand and 'dothi' in the next when I
>fall over and expose all my shocking to man and female women on
>platform.
>This too much bad, if passengers go to make dung that dam
>guard not wait five minutes for me. I am therefore pray your honour to
>make big fine on that guard for public sake. Otherwise I am making big
>report to papers..

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Iranian Railways Query

Date: 15 Dec 1998 20:35:23 -0500


<A HREF="http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html">http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html</A>

Says here that Iraninan Railways interchange
freight stock with India. Does anyone have
more info ?

Jayant S
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Iranian Railways Query

Date: 15 Dec 1998 22:23:31 -0500


"VIRAF P.. MULLA" wrote:
> Might be before Independence when Pakistan was with India. There is a
NG
> line across the Iranian/Pakistan border.
I remember reading about this NG line somewhere, but
this website mentions BG interchange. Presumably,
the Iranian system is on the 5'6" Broad gauge.
I vaguely remember some Paul Thereoux (?) book
which talks of travelling from Pakistan to Iran
by train.....anyone know more ?


--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(20)702534 : FAX 91(20)773191
--

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Iranian Railways Query

Date: 15 Dec 1998 22:31:25 -0500


On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Jayant S wrote:

> <A HREF="http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html">http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html</A>
>
> Says here that Iraninan Railways interchange
> freight stock with India. Does anyone have
> more info ?
>
> Jayant S
> --
>

Might be before Independence when Pakistan was with India. There is a NG
line across the Iranian/Pakistan border.

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Blue Tiger Diesel Loco

Date: 15 Dec 1998 23:37:13 -0500



Hi Shanku,

It has been reported in the recent issue of Today's Railways that THE
BLUE
TIGER is still undergoing test and trials in Germany. Regular production
will commence once these trials are over.

Viraf

> I read somewhere recently that
the AdTranz Blue Tiger diesel electric
> locomotive, designed mainly for Asian countries, was ordered (in
numbers of
> about 30) by Pakistan Railways. Anyone on this list know if those
> locomotives were delivered, and also if there has been any interest in
> bringing the locomotive to IR?
>
> For those interested in seeing this really bold locomotive, there are
some
> pictures on the AdTranz web site, at:
> <A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg</A>
> and
> <A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg</A>
>
> Boy, something like this with a matched blue rake would really look
nice on
> the Indian Railways, especially given the Indian tiger heritage -
don't you
> think? The front windshield needs some work though - it looks a bit
plain.
>
>

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Blue Tiger Diesel Loco

Date: 15 Dec 1998 23:37:13 -0500



Hi Shanku,

It has been reported in the recent issue of Today's Railways that THE
BLUE
TIGER is still undergoing test and trials in Germany. Regular production
will commence once these trials are over.

Viraf

> I read somewhere recently that
the AdTranz Blue Tiger diesel electric
> locomotive, designed mainly for Asian countries, was ordered (in
numbers of
> about 30) by Pakistan Railways. Anyone on this list know if those
> locomotives were delivered, and also if there has been any interest in
> bringing the locomotive to IR?
>
> For those interested in seeing this really bold locomotive, there are
some
> pictures on the AdTranz web site, at:
> <A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg</A>
> and
> <A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg</A>
>
> Boy, something like this with a matched blue rake would really look
nice on
> the Indian Railways, especially given the Indian tiger heritage -
don't you
> think? The front windshield needs some work though - it looks a bit
plain.
>
>

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Blue Tiger Diesel Loco

Date: 16 Dec 1998 01:00:47 -0500




VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:

> Hi Shanku,
>
> It has been reported in the recent issue of Today's Railways that THE
BLUE
> TIGER is still undergoing test and trials in Germany. Regular
production
> will commence once these trials are over.
>
> Viraf
>
> > I read somewhere recently that
> the AdTranz Blue Tiger diesel electric
> > locomotive, designed mainly for Asian countries, was ordered (in
numbers of
> > about 30) by Pakistan Railways. Anyone on this list know if those
> > locomotives were delivered, and also if there has been any interest
in
> > bringing the locomotive to IR?
> >
> > For those interested in seeing this really bold locomotive, there
are some
> > pictures on the AdTranz web site, at:
> > <A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/arc98/pics/blue_tiger.jpg</A>
> > and
> > <A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg">http://www.adtranz.com/products/pics/btiger.jpg</A>
> >
> > Boy, something like this with a matched blue rake would really look
nice on
> > the Indian Railways, especially given the Indian tiger heritage -
don't you
> > think? The front windshield needs some work though - it looks a bit
plain.
> >
> >

Speaking of the front windsheild - In the US seems like every new cab
design
starts
out with a funny shaped , large window. As time goes on , the railroads
learn
again
that such windows are expensive, and broken windows a fact of
railroading life.
So the cabs get changed to a series of smaller, rectangular windows.

But, I have to admit, that's a beautiful loco.

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Blue Tiger Diesel Loco

Date: 16 Dec 1998 01:05:01 -0500


> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:14:01 +0530 (IST)
> From: "VIRAF P.. MULLA " <sncf@godrej.email
> To: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
> Cc: "'irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Blue Tiger Diesel Loco

> > Boy, something like this with a matched blue rake would really look
nice on
> > the Indian Railways, especially given the Indian tiger heritage -
don't you
> > think? The front windshield needs some work though - it looks a bit
plain.
>
> I find this loco pretty ugly.
>
> How will it look if "MUMBAI'S TIGER" gives it a saffron livery?

Perish the thought! It would be nightmarish!!
======================
Sarosh Bakhtyar Mehta
M/s. Godrej & Boyce Mfg.Co.Ltd.
Machine Tool Division
Pirojshanagar, Vikhroli,
MUMBAI 400 079
INDIA
Tel:(Office) 577 3535 / 577 3636 Extn: 3917/3907/3909
Tel:(Residence) 389 3150
Fax:(Office) 91 22 517 2229 / 91 22 518 2289
Email sarosh@godrej.email
=======================
Wisdom dawns only after knowledge is gained

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Iranian Railways Query

Date: 16 Dec 1998 01:07:00 -0500


> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 12:01:25 +0530 (IST)
> From: "VIRAF P.. MULLA " <sncf@godrej.email
> To: Jayant S <sank@telco.email
> Cc: IR List <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Iranian Railways Query

> On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, Jayant S wrote:
>
> > <A HREF="http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html">http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html</A>
> >
> > Says here that Iraninan Railways interchange
> > freight stock with India. Does anyone have
> > more info ?
> >
> > Jayant S
> > --
> >
>
> Might be before Independence when Pakistan was with India. There is a
NG
> line across the Iranian/Pakistan border.
>
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
> ==========================
We are supposed to do that trip if we happen to visit Iran, remember,
Viraf?

======================
Sarosh Bakhtyar Mehta
M/s. Godrej & Boyce Mfg.Co.Ltd.
Machine Tool Division
Pirojshanagar, Vikhroli,
MUMBAI 400 079
INDIA
Tel:(Office) 577 3535 / 577 3636 Extn: 3917/3907/3909
Tel:(Residence) 389 3150
Fax:(Office) 91 22 517 2229 / 91 22 518 2289
Email sarosh@godrej.email
=======================
Wisdom dawns only after knowledge is gained

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Great Journeys: pictorial presentation

Date: 16 Dec 1998 01:39:08 -0500


Hello, everybody!

Here are some photographs that we clicked during our Udaipur "dream
steam" trip!! Enjoy! Here below is the description in brief of each
photograph (connected to its file name, of course!):-

1. visa2.bmp - This is at Lusadiya where signs of trouble with the
loco were initially noticed. The crew is seen trying to put things
right.

2. visa1.bmp - The spot is just outside Padla station when steam
pipes above the fire-box burst and pressure was lost.

3. visa3.bmp - YP 2813 is a dead loco. Viraf is seen on the roof of
the leading coach.

4. visa4.bmp - We are the rear of our train (86 Pass.) and
shooting the arrival of our saviour, YDM2 6478.

5. visa5.bmp - Finally, the diesel loco is ready to link-up with
our train at the rear.

6. visa6.bmp - We are at Zawar, time is nearly 6.30 p.m. and the
YDM2 is passing us to link up with YP and haul it away.

7. visa7.bmp - The YP is now delinked from our train and the YDM2
is now ready to haul it away to a siding for repairs which will have
been carried out the next day by mechanics from Udaipur.

8. visa8/9/10/11.bmp - These are the scenes that we saw at the
busy Rana Pratapnagar loco shed. What a lovely sight! All soot,
smoke, grime, dirt, grease........ a steam lover's delight!!!!

12. visa12.bmp - A YDM2 hauling freight about to pass thru the
gates of Debari Fort. What a pity! Everything was right but the time!
Otherwise, it would have been a fine shoot!

Viraf and Sarosh

======================
Sarosh Bakhtyar Mehta
M/s. Godrej

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Great Journeys: pictorial presentation

Date: 16 Dec 1998 01:40:51 -0500


Hello, everybody!

Here are some photographs that we clicked during our Udaipur "dream
steam" trip!! Enjoy! Here below is the description in brief of each
photograph (connected to its file name, of course!):-

1. visa2.bmp - This is at Lusadiya where signs of trouble with the
loco were initially noticed. The crew is seen trying to put things
right.

2. visa1.bmp - The spot is just outside Padla station when steam
pipes above the fire-box burst and pressure was lost.

3. visa3.bmp - YP 2813 is a dead loco. Viraf is seen on the roof of
the leading coach.

4. visa4.bmp - We are the rear of our train (86 Pass.) and
shooting the arrival of our saviour, YDM2 6478.

5. visa5.bmp - Finally, the diesel loco is ready to link-up with
our train at the rear.

6. visa6.bmp - We are at Zawar, time is nearly 6.30 p.m. and the
YDM2 is passing us to link up with YP and haul it away.

7. visa7.bmp - The YP is now delinked from our train and the YDM2
is now ready to haul it away to a siding for repairs which will have
been carried out the next day by mechanics from Udaipur.

8. visa8/9/10/11.bmp - These are the scenes that we saw at the
busy Rana Pratapnagar loco shed. What a lovely sight! All soot,
smoke, grime, dirt, grease........ a steam lover's delight!!!!

12. visa12.bmp - A YDM2 hauling freight about to pass thru the
gates of Debari Fort. What a pity! Everything was right but the time!
Otherwise, it would have been a fine shoot!

Viraf and Sarosh

======================
Sarosh Bakhtyar Mehta
M/s. Godrej &

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Great Journeys: pictorial presentation

Date: 16 Dec 1998 01:41:03 -0500


Hello, everybody!

Here are some photographs that we clicked during our Udaipur "dream
steam" trip!! Enjoy! Here below is the description in brief of each
photograph (connected to its file name, of course!):-

1. visa2.bmp - This is at Lusadiya where signs of trouble with the
loco were initially noticed. The crew is seen trying to put things
right.

2. visa1.bmp - The spot is just outside Padla station when steam
pipes above the fire-box burst and pressure was lost.

3. visa3.bmp - YP 2813 is a dead loco. Viraf is seen on the roof of
the leading coach.

4. visa4.bmp - We are the rear of our train (86 Pass.) and
shooting the arrival of our saviour, YDM2 6478.

5. visa5.bmp - Finally, the diesel loco is ready to link-up with
our train at the rear.

6. visa6.bmp - We are at Zawar, time is nearly 6.30 p.m. and the
YDM2 is passing us to link up with YP and haul it away.

7. visa7.bmp - The YP is now delinked from our train and the YDM2
is now ready to haul it away to a siding for repairs which will have
been carried out the next day by mechanics from Udaipur.

8. visa8/9/10/11.bmp - These are the scenes that we saw at the
busy Rana Pratapnagar loco shed. What a lovely sight! All soot,
smoke, grime, dirt, grease........ a steam lover's delight!!!!

12. visa12.bmp - A YDM2 hauling freight about to pass thru the
gates of Debari Fort. What a pity! Everything was right but the time!
Otherwise, it would have been a fine shoot!

Viraf and Sarosh

======================
Sarosh Bakhtyar Mehta
M/s. Godrej

From: G.W.Roberts <>

Subject: Sugar Cane Railway

Date: 16 Dec 1998 03:16:38 -0500


Hi all,

I was talking to a friend last night who told me that the 60cm gauge
railway system at Bahr(?) Sugar, India has recently gone out of use.
Is this the system at Ryam? Does anyone have any pictures or contacts
for this place?

Thanks,


Gareth

Stop the planet I want to get off

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Sugar Cane Railway

Date: 16 Dec 1998 05:20:41 -0500


As far as I know, there is no place called Bahr or Ryam in India, these
are not even Indian sounding names. One good reference material for the
sugar railways is book 'Relics of the Raj' by C.T. (not sure of the
initials) Gammell. The British Council Library in Pune has this book, so
I am sure it will be easy getting this book elsewhere also.

Apurva

G.W.Roberts wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I was talking to a friend last night who told me that the 60cm gauge
> railway system at Bahr(?) Sugar, India has recently gone out of use.
> Is this the system at Ryam? Does anyone have any pictures or contacts
> for this place?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gareth
>
> Stop the planet I want to get off

From: Henry Posner III <>

Subject: Re: Iranian Railways Query

Date: 16 Dec 1998 06:19:36 -0500


My guess is that the interchange is more theoretical than actual. There
is
little traffic interchanged between Pakistan and India; it would be even
more difficult to use rail on a move involving 3 countries, especially
considering the geopolitics of the route.

The most important thing is that the system is there for when the
climate
for trade improves.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jayant S [mailto:sank@telco.email
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 1998 11:35 PM
To: IR List
Subject: Iranian Railways Query


<A HREF="http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html">http://www.msedv.com/rai/freight.html</A>

Says here that Iraninan Railways interchange
freight stock with India. Does anyone have
more info ?

Jayant S
--

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