IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 4601 - 4620

Previous 20 Messages          Archive Index          Next 20 Messages

From: prakash <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 07 Dec 1998 14:29:43 -0500




Harsh,

> e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up'
> services only and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar
> anomaly is seen on Indian Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain
> Railways where train going uphill is a `down' service!

Neral - Matheran (uphill) is down, too.

Prakash

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 07 Dec 1998 15:48:42 -0500


Dear Harsh and all,
Great that there's an Indian-based DHR website. (There was already
one
in the UK --- Shomik Ghosal's "unofficial" site). It would be good if
you
could regularly post news and updates, though I appreciate it's quite a
chore!
Much as I love the DHR --- and I think it is the best train ride
in
the world! --- I don't think some of the claims made for it are true.
1. The highest main-line railway in the world is the Central do Peru.
The
main line from Lima to the smelter at La Oroya begins its climb of the
Andes
at San Bartolome, some 40 miles from Lima. Oroya is about 120 miles
away, at
12,220ft. The summit of the line is at 15,690ft, in the Galera tunnel,
but
the there is a siding on the line which reaches the Punto Ferroviario
Mas
Alto Del Mundo, at 15,806 pies (that's what it says on the sign!) There
any
many stations above 7500ft on this line. The Southern of Peru reaches
14,668ft, too. The Ferrocarril Antofagasta-Bolivia (metre gauge) has a
summit at Condor of 15,705ft.
2. The DHR isn't even the highest NG line in the world, nor the second
highest. The Ferrocarril Huancayo-Huancavelica is a spectular 3ft gauge
line
in the Andes, all of it (I think) above 12,000 ft. Further south, the FC
Cuzco-Santa Ana (which is the one you get to visit Macchu Picchu) rises
to
12,200ft above Cuzco. There were also a large number of small mineral
lines
in the mountains around the Bolivia-Peru-Chile border region. The very
highest railway ever in the world was a mine branch in this area, though
it
is long closed.
So the claims on the nameboard at Ghum have to be taken with a
barrowload of salt! But why worry? DHR is a wonderful example of
Victorian
engineering, the earliest NG line to tackle a major mountain chain, and
still coping successfully with some of the most difficult terrain on any
NG
line anywhere.
Other points: Loop No. 1 went after the 1991 floods, I think. I
remember seeing the remains in early 1992.
The South Australian railways have several points at which 3
gauges
meet (5ft 3in, stangauge, 3ft 6in) . The actual point keeps shifting
around
with (desultory) gauge conversion work, but there used to be some
maginificent supergauge points at Gladstone, with all 3 gauges, and the
outer tracks coming out to 6ft 5in gauge! I'm sure there are other
places,
globally.
Keep up the good work, and cherish those trams!
Ken Walker


-----Original Message-----
From: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
To: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email Indian Railway Fan Club
Association
<irfca@cs.email
Date: Tuesday, 8 December 1998 1:39
Subject: Website on DHR.


>Dear Bharat,
> Thanks for another visual treat ! You must be
working
>hard on them. I found the pictures most beautiful especially the one of
the
>train at New Jalpaiguri(NJP).
>
>However as a long standing admirer of this great railway, and a
frequent
>traveller as well, I could not but help noticing a few glaring errors
in
the
>descriptions `again'. For you and the more discerning followers, Iam
>describing these below and adding a few inputs of other relevant info
as
>well in the process:
>
>a) Ghoom at 7407 feet is also the second heighest railway station in
the
>world.
>
>b) The DHR has seen many changes in the design of the locomotives
before
>standardising on the B class. The present B class which has been most
>succesful since its inception in 1889 is an improvement of the A class
and
>has been a standard on the line since it was introduced. Other varied
forms
>of motive power including a Garratt have been tried on this line but
nothing
>could beat the good old B class. Even specially produced diesels have
>failed!
>
>c) The major supplier of B class locomotives has been North British
with 15
>at the top, the original designer of the locos Sharp Stewart is at
second
>place with
>9 and Baldwin supplied merely 3 locomotives. 3 were built at DHR
itself
>using spares received with bulk orders.
>
>d) B class 790 was built by North British and not Sharp Stewart as
>mentioned.
>
>e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up' services
only
>and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar anomaly is seen on Indian
>Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain Railways where train going uphill
is
a
>`down' service!
>
>
>f) There is no locomotive numbered 815 on the DHR. Only 30 of the B
class
>were built which were numbered from 777 to 806. The one featured is
probably
>B 805 buit North British in 1925.
>
>g) Each of these locomotives carry a crew of 5-6. These are the driver,
his
>assistant(not always seen), fireman, a coal breaker(who sits on the top
of
>the coal bunker and breaks big chunks of coal) and two sanders who sit
in
>the front. The job
>of these sanders is to sprinkle fine sand on the rails when `going
uphill'
>to minimise the slipping of locomotive wheels. The second class coaches
on
>DHR till date use a manual foot brake which is operated by the
brakesmen
who
>sit on the top of the coaches and lunge on these levers at the edge of
the
>coaches to ease the train `going downhill'.
>
>h) Currently Darjeeling Mail arrives at NJP at 08.15 Hrs. The
connecting 3D
>for DJ departs at 09.00
>
>i) To the best of my information, New Jalpaiguri is the only station in
the
>world to have 3 gauges!
>
>
>j) There are only 3 loops on the DHR now with loop No. 1 taken off many
>years back.
>
>k) The road and the rail cross each other 176 times between NJP and DJ.
>
>l) The Hill cart road is now renamed as `Tenzing Norgay Road'.
>
>
>Thanks and regards,
>
>HARSH
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email
>To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
>Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 11:35 PM
>Subject: Correction to the URL....
>
>
>>Hi All...
>>I had made a slight mistake in giving you all the URL for my new page
on
>>the DHR...please use the following address...
>><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/dhr.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/dhr.html</A>
>>
>>Thank you,
>>Bharat Vohra
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Anpara

Date: 07 Dec 1998 22:39:23 -0500


The Star TV news had a feature saying that this loco was steamed
from
Renukoot - your version must be true. It is actually improbable that the
loco
can be steamed for such a distance when service, refueling and
rewatering
facility have been long gone.

Apurva

Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> Apurva,
>
> Are you talking about the Y-2(L-2) locomotive. Well, It did't work all
the
> way to Delhi but travelled light at 20 Kmph! It was just steamed up
for
> entering the museum.
>
> HARSH
>
> >A few years back, Renukoot in the same area bid farewell to a XA
class
> >(?) steam loco which had served in the Hindalco plant after
retirement
> >from the IR. The loco worked to the NRM in New Delhi from Renukoot
under
> >its own steam and is now preserved there.

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 00:12:21 -0500


>> e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up'
>> services only and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar
>> anomaly is seen on Indian Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain
>> Railways where train going uphill is a `down' service!
>
>Neral - Matheran (uphill) is down, too.
>


Please recheck this fact(and let me know if Iam worng again). As far as
I
know, the services from Neral to Matheran are 601/603/605 and 607, all
of
which are up services.

HARSH

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 00:28:15 -0500




>>i) To the best of my information, New Jalpaiguri is the only station
in
the
>>world to have 3 gauges!
>>

>I BEG TO DIFFER. MIRAJ TOO WAS ANOTHER STATION WITH THREE GAUGES:
>BG TO POONA, MG TO GOA AND BANGALORE, AND NG TO KURDUWADI.
> I THINK ALL THE MG HAS NOW BEEN REGAUGED TO BG AND THE NG IS SLATED
FOR
CONVERSION.


There were many other `was' like Ujjain for one. But as far as I know,
NJP
is the only one left now. Can anyone throw more light on the 3 gauge
stations on IR in past and present?

HARSH

From: G.W.Roberts <>

Subject: INTRODUCTION

Date: 08 Dec 1998 00:59:19 -0500


Hello All,

Just a quick introduction as I am new to the list. I am Gareth
Roberts and I live in the U.K.. I have been interested & involved
with railways for many years now, with a particular interest in the
light railways used during World War One. I am a Student member of
the railway division of the Institute of Chartered Mechanical
Engineers (IMechE) and have spent some time working at Riley & Son
(E) Ltd (Based on the East Lancashire Railway, Bury, Manchester),
where they undertook heavy overhauls of mainline steam engines, or
rebuilds from scrap yard condition. I am also a member of a Narrow
Gauge Railway Museum, the Moseley Railway Trust
(<A HREF="http://www.djr12ecg.demon.co.uk/mitm)">http://www.djr12ecg.demon.co.uk/mitm)</A>.

As my first question to the list, i was wondering if anyone 'out
there' may know of the fate of a couple of 60cm gauge ex-WW1 steam
engines, formerly based at the Coal of India site at Nagpur? The
engines are both of the 4-6-0T wheel arrangement, and were built
in 1917 by Hunslet and Baldwin respectivley. They were recorded
derilict in the late 1970's.

Regards,

Gareth Roberts.

From: viraf phiroze mulla <>

Subject: MYSTERY TRAIN

Date: 08 Dec 1998 01:33:11 -0500



Harsh & gang,

Last week Sarosh & I got this photograph courtesy CPRO Western RAilway
which had a caption "Frontier Mail On Vasai Bridge Circa 1940."
A WP in 1940? These were the locos of the fifties and I am sure that the
picture must be clicked during the sixties. The train is shown crossing
the
bridge towards Bombay in broad daylight. Now Frontier arrives early in
the
morning and crosses this bridge in the wee hours of the morning. Which
train can it be. Definitely not Flying Ranee cause the train has two A/C
coaches and a composite RMS coach towards the rear.

Just curious
Viraf

From: viraf phiroze mulla <>

Subject: Fw: MYSTERY TRAIN

Date: 08 Dec 1998 01:36:53 -0500




----------
From: viraf phiroze mulla <sncf@godrej.email
To: champa@del3.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email
Subject: MYSTERY TRAIN
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 3:03 PM


Harsh & gang,

Last week Sarosh & I got this photograph courtesy CPRO Western RAilway
which had a caption "Frontier Mail On Vasai Bridge Circa 1940."
A WP in 1940? These were the locos of the fifties and I am sure that the
picture must be clicked during the sixties. The train is shown crossing
the
bridge towards Bombay in broad daylight. Now Frontier arrives early in
the
morning and crosses this bridge in the wee hours of the morning. Which
train can it be. Definitely not Flying Ranee cause the train has two A/C
coaches and a composite RMS coach towards the rear.

Just curious
Viraf

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 01:45:33 -0500


Dear Bharat,

Ref. my mail about the feedback on your valuable sitte on DHR. Please
note
the comments of Dr. K.J. Walker regarding the height of Ghoom station,
before
you make any changes in the site. In fact, I hesitated a bit before
making
that comment about Ghoom being the second highest station in the world.
Nevertheless Iam still searching for more current and upto date
information
on this subject. Will revert to you shortly.

HARSH

-----Original Message-----
From: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email
To: champa@del3.email <champa@del3.email
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: Website on DHR.


>Dear Harsh
>Thanks again for the vaulable feedback and comments.
>
>Also thanks for all the extra information provided...will make the
>necessary changes asap....the one about loco no 805 instead of 815!
>
>Thanks again
>Regards,
>Bharat Vohra
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 01:55:26 -0500


Thanks Doc,
for the loads of info. I must admit that I
hesitated
for a moment before proclaiming Ghoom as the second highest. At the
moment
Iam searching for the particular reference where I noticed this first.

Regarding other 3 gauge stations, could you please clarify if the ones
you
mentioned are commercial railways and not industrial lines.

Regards,

HARSh


-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <kjw_meh@powerup.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
Cc: IRFCA - mailing list <irfca@cs.email
Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Website on DHR.


>Dear Harsh and all,
> Great that there's an Indian-based DHR website. (There was
already
one
>in the UK --- Shomik Ghosal's "unofficial" site). It would be good if
you
>could regularly post news and updates, though I appreciate it's quite a
>chore!
> Much as I love the DHR --- and I think it is the best train ride
in
>the world! --- I don't think some of the claims made for it are true.
>1. The highest main-line railway in the world is the Central do Peru.
The
>main line from Lima to the smelter at La Oroya begins its climb of the
Andes
>at San Bartolome, some 40 miles from Lima. Oroya is about 120 miles
away,
at
>12,220ft. The summit of the line is at 15,690ft, in the Galera tunnel,
but
>the there is a siding on the line which reaches the Punto Ferroviario
Mas
>Alto Del Mundo, at 15,806 pies (that's what it says on the sign!) There
any
>many stations above 7500ft on this line. The Southern of Peru reaches
>14,668ft, too. The Ferrocarril Antofagasta-Bolivia (metre gauge) has a
>summit at Condor of 15,705ft.
>2. The DHR isn't even the highest NG line in the world, nor the second
>highest. The Ferrocarril Huancayo-Huancavelica is a spectular 3ft gauge
line
>in the Andes, all of it (I think) above 12,000 ft. Further south, the
FC
>Cuzco-Santa Ana (which is the one you get to visit Macchu Picchu) rises
to
>12,200ft above Cuzco. There were also a large number of small mineral
lines
>in the mountains around the Bolivia-Peru-Chile border region. The very
>highest railway ever in the world was a mine branch in this area,
though it
>is long closed.
> So the claims on the nameboard at Ghum have to be taken with a
>barrowload of salt! But why worry? DHR is a wonderful example of
Victorian
>engineering, the earliest NG line to tackle a major mountain chain, and
>still coping successfully with some of the most difficult terrain on
any NG
>line anywhere.
> Other points: Loop No. 1 went after the 1991 floods, I think. I
>remember seeing the remains in early 1992.
> The South Australian railways have several points at which 3
gauges
>meet (5ft 3in, stangauge, 3ft 6in) . The actual point keeps shifting
around
>with (desultory) gauge conversion work, but there used to be some
>maginificent supergauge points at Gladstone, with all 3 gauges, and the
>outer tracks coming out to 6ft 5in gauge! I'm sure there are other
places,
>globally.
> Keep up the good work, and cherish those trams!
> Ken Walker
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
>To: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email Indian Railway Fan Club
Association
><irfca@cs.email
>Date: Tuesday, 8 December 1998 1:39
>Subject: Website on DHR.
>
>
>>Dear Bharat,
>> Thanks for another visual treat ! You must be
>working
>>hard on them. I found the pictures most beautiful especially the one
of
the
>>train at New Jalpaiguri(NJP).
>>
>>However as a long standing admirer of this great railway, and a
frequent
>>traveller as well, I could not but help noticing a few glaring errors
in
>the
>>descriptions `again'. For you and the more discerning followers, Iam
>>describing these below and adding a few inputs of other relevant info
as
>>well in the process:
>>
>>a) Ghoom at 7407 feet is also the second heighest railway station in
the
>>world.
>>
>>b) The DHR has seen many changes in the design of the locomotives
before
>>standardising on the B class. The present B class which has been most
>>succesful since its inception in 1889 is an improvement of the A class
and
>>has been a standard on the line since it was introduced. Other varied
forms
>>of motive power including a Garratt have been tried on this line but
>nothing
>>could beat the good old B class. Even specially produced diesels have
>>failed!
>>
>>c) The major supplier of B class locomotives has been North British
with
15
>>at the top, the original designer of the locos Sharp Stewart is at
second
>>place with
>>9 and Baldwin supplied merely 3 locomotives. 3 were built at DHR
itself
>>using spares received with bulk orders.
>>
>>d) B class 790 was built by North British and not Sharp Stewart as
>>mentioned.
>>
>>e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up' services
only
>>and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar anomaly is seen on Indian
>>Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain Railways where train going
uphill is
>a
>>`down' service!
>>
>>
>>f) There is no locomotive numbered 815 on the DHR. Only 30 of the B
class
>>were built which were numbered from 777 to 806. The one featured is
>probably
>>B 805 buit North British in 1925.
>>
>>g) Each of these locomotives carry a crew of 5-6. These are the
driver,
his
>>assistant(not always seen), fireman, a coal breaker(who sits on the
top of
>>the coal bunker and breaks big chunks of coal) and two sanders who sit
in
>>the front. The job
>>of these sanders is to sprinkle fine sand on the rails when `going
uphill'
>>to minimise the slipping of locomotive wheels. The second class
coaches on
>>DHR till date use a manual foot brake which is operated by the
brakesmen
>who
>>sit on the top of the coaches and lunge on these levers at the edge of
the
>>coaches to ease the train `going downhill'.
>>
>>h) Currently Darjeeling Mail arrives at NJP at 08.15 Hrs. The
connecting
3D
>>for DJ departs at 09.00
>>
>>i) To the best of my information, New Jalpaiguri is the only station
in
the
>>world to have 3 gauges!
>>
>>
>>j) There are only 3 loops on the DHR now with loop No. 1 taken off
many
>>years back.
>>
>>k) The road and the rail cross each other 176 times between NJP and
DJ.
>>
>>l) The Hill cart road is now renamed as `Tenzing Norgay Road'.
>>
>>
>>Thanks and regards,
>>
>>HARSH
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email
>>To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
>>Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 11:35 PM
>>Subject: Correction to the URL....
>>
>>
>>>Hi All...
>>>I had made a slight mistake in giving you all the URL for my new page
on
>>>the DHR...please use the following address...
>>><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/dhr.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/dhr.html</A>
>>>
>>>Thank you,
>>>Bharat Vohra
>>>
>>>______________________________________________________
>>>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: MYSTERY TRAIN

Date: 08 Dec 1998 02:32:11 -0500


Dear Viraf,
Great work ! I seem to have seen this picture
somewhere
but can't remember just now where ? Can you make out the No. of the WP,
with
a magnifying glass perhaps ?

Surely this is no train in the forties but in sixties or perhaps
seventies.
The WP seems very spic and span. Great picture.

HARSH

-----Original Message-----
From: viraf phiroze mulla <sncf@godrej.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 1:55 AM
Subject: Fw: MYSTERY TRAIN


>
>
>----------
>From: viraf phiroze mulla <sncf@godrej.email
>To: champa@del3.email
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: MYSTERY TRAIN
>Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 3:03 PM
>
>
>Harsh & gang,
>
>Last week Sarosh & I got this photograph courtesy CPRO Western RAilway
>which had a caption "Frontier Mail On Vasai Bridge Circa 1940."
>A WP in 1940? These were the locos of the fifties and I am sure that
the
>picture must be clicked during the sixties. The train is shown crossing
the
>bridge towards Bombay in broad daylight. Now Frontier arrives early in
the
>morning and crosses this bridge in the wee hours of the morning. Which
>train can it be. Definitely not Flying Ranee cause the train has two
A/C
>coaches and a composite RMS coach towards the rear.
>
>Just curious
>Viraf

From: Sujan Dutta <>

Subject: Re: great to be here

Date: 08 Dec 1998 02:50:52 -0500




>From irfca-request@cs.email Mon Dec 7 07:19:08 1998
>Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu (root@mimsy.email [128.8.128.8])
> by hyena.cs.umd.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA08381
>
>Anurag & gang,
>
> I've joined up recently and am already convinced I'm among the right
>lot. But some of you guys look pros when it comes to trains. I'm just
an
>aficionado, amateur in every way and do not even have a technical
>background like many of you seem to have. I love looking at trains and
>despite all the discomfort of the railways, I enjoy travelling on them.

>I also read a lot of books on the railways. If its of interest to you,
>you might be glad to hear that BBC has just brought a second volume on
>railway journeys entitled "More Great Train Journeys" published in
>association with Penguin. Its expensive for its size -- Rs 250 per copy

>-- but pieces like Chris Bonington's Halifax to Vancouver gave my
mind's
>eye a panoramic view across the breadth of Canada.
>
> Can't say the family (read wife) enjoys the railways as much as I do
>particularly when the son is just four years old and the train seems to

>be late by centuries.
>
> Anyway, I hope Pablo -- that's my son and he turned all of four
years
>yesterday -- retains and sustains his interest. He does enjoy playing
>with trains and most of all being the engine driver. So we have hatched

>a male conspiracy in the house to chug along merrily despite odds.
>
> I'll be taking Pablo (and the odd one out) to Mysore later this
>month. I hear Mysore has a good railway museum. Will be glad for tips
on
>what to look out for. We'll be taking the Coromandel Express from
>Calcutta (where I'm based) to Chennai; from Chennai we'll take the
>Shatabdi Express.
>
> Cheers and tally ho!
>
>Sujan/
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 03:12:23 -0500


On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> >> e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up'
> >> services only and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar
> >> anomaly is seen on Indian Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain
> >> Railways where train going uphill is a `down' service!
> >
> >Neral - Matheran (uphill) is down, too.
> >
>
>
> Please recheck this fact(and let me know if Iam worng again). As far
as I
> know, the services from Neral to Matheran are 601/603/605 and 607, all
of
> which are up services.
>
> HARSH
>

PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237


Hash,
Well neral - matheran services are 601 dn from Neral/ matheran.
Infact I had once raised this topic that only in Mumbai division the no
is
correct otherwise, it is really stupid.

for e.g. 2001 up Bhopal shatabdi and 2002 is dn, what I cannot
understand is the lack of uniformity in Numbering trains. Please note
that 2311dn from Howrah to Delhi is 2311 up from Delhi to Kalka' and
2312
is dn train right thru.

In chennai 1064 up for Mumbai departs as 1064 dn and then from Sholapur
becomes 1064 up again !!!! isn't this really stupid ?

please give your views.

Poras.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 03:19:31 -0500


Prakash is right - all the uphill services are down.

Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> >> e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up'
> >> services only and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar
> >> anomaly is seen on Indian Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain
> >> Railways where train going uphill is a `down' service!
> >
> >Neral - Matheran (uphill) is down, too.
> >
>
> Please recheck this fact(and let me know if Iam worng again). As far
as I
> know, the services from Neral to Matheran are 601/603/605 and 607, all
of
> which are up services.
>
> HARSH

From: Madhav Acharya <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 05:29:36 -0500


I have a question - why have "Up" and "Dn" at all ? Since each service
has
a unique
number, there should be no reason for directions ! Even in the old
numbering
system there should have been no need for Up/Dn. The only time you would
need Up/Dn is when a train only has one number regardless of where it
starts
from e.g. Kalka Mail is Train # 2311 both ways and you add Up/Dn to
specify
where it starts and ends. With Up and Dn, it sounds more like electron
filling
in orbitals ! ;)

Madhav





"poras p.saklatwalla " <pps@godrej.email on 12/08/98 06:12:23 AM

To: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
cc: prakash@us.email irfca@cs.email (bcc: Madhav
Acharya/EastCoast/Mobil-Notes)
Subject: Re: Website on DHR.





On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> >> e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up'
> >> services only and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar
> >> anomaly is seen on Indian Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain
> >> Railways where train going uphill is a `down' service!
> >
> >Neral - Matheran (uphill) is down, too.
> >
>
>
> Please recheck this fact(and let me know if Iam worng again). As far
as
I
> know, the services from Neral to Matheran are 601/603/605 and 607, all
of
> which are up services.
>
> HARSH
>

PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237


Hash,
Well neral - matheran services are 601 dn from Neral/ matheran.
Infact I had once raised this topic that only in Mumbai division the no
is
correct otherwise, it is really stupid.

for e.g. 2001 up Bhopal shatabdi and 2002 is dn, what I cannot
understand is the lack of uniformity in Numbering trains. Please note
that 2311dn from Howrah to Delhi is 2311 up from Delhi to Kalka' and
2312
is dn train right thru.

In chennai 1064 up for Mumbai departs as 1064 dn and then from Sholapur
becomes 1064 up again !!!! isn't this really stupid ?

please give your views.

Poras.

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: MYSTERY TRAIN

Date: 08 Dec 1998 07:47:22 -0500


>
> Harsh & gang,
>
> Last week Sarosh & I got this photograph courtesy CPRO
> Western RAilway
> which had a caption "Frontier Mail On Vasai Bridge Circa 1940."
> A WP in 1940? These were the locos of the fifties and I am
> sure that the
> picture must be clicked during the sixties. The train is
> shown crossing the
> bridge towards Bombay in broad daylight. Now Frontier arrives
> early in the
> morning and crosses this bridge in the wee hours of the morning. Which
> train can it be. Definitely not Flying Ranee cause the train
> has two A/C
> coaches and a composite RMS coach towards the rear.
>
> Just curious
> Viraf
>

Looks like the Frontier Mail to me. The livery is consistent with our
speculation and so is the presence of the old-style AC coaches and the
RMS
coach. This train was dieselized in the mid-60s indicating that the
photo
belongs to the early 60s.

Vijay

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 08 Dec 1998 09:07:50 -0500


PORAS P. SAKLATWALLA wrote:

> PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
> TEL :5773535/3636
> EXT :4226/4232/4237
>
> Hash,
> Well neral - matheran services are 601 dn from Neral/ matheran.
> Infact I had once raised this topic that only in Mumbai division the
no is
> correct otherwise, it is really stupid.
>
> for e.g. 2001 up Bhopal shatabdi and 2002 is dn, what I cannot
> understand is the lack of uniformity in Numbering trains. Please note
> that 2311dn from Howrah to Delhi is 2311 up from Delhi to Kalka' and
2312
> is dn train right thru.

Isuspect that the statement made above about the numbering and
up/down-ness of
Howrah Delhi Kalka Mail is incorrect. Since when did Howrah Delhi Kalka
Mail
become 2311 Dn from Howrah to Delhi? It has always been 2311 Up all the
way from
Howrah to Kalka, well ever since it became 2311 Up from 1 Up. HDK Mail
was 1 Up
in the EIR days because all trains travelling away from the HQ
(Calcutta) were
Up and all trains travelling towards the HQ were down on EIR, and it had
the
numbers 1 and 2 because it was EIR's premier Mail. Of course Kalka
Delhi Howrah
Mail was 2 Dn. And to avoid confusion at Howrah perhaps(?) Howrah Bombay
Mail
via Nagpur, a BNR train, was 1Dn and 2Up.!

This is of course not to say that things are not confusing, but they are
not as
confusing as you make it out to be, at least in the case of Howrah Delhi
Kalka
Mail:-).

Jishnu.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: snowplows?

Date: 08 Dec 1998 10:13:55 -0500


Just pondering - does the IR own any snow plows?

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: MYSTERY TRAIN

Date: 08 Dec 1998 15:24:33 -0500


Hi Viraf and Harsh,
That train has ICF coaches, including a full First (the one with end
vestibules, near the front).
ICF didn't begin production until 1955; and Firsts didn't appear until
1958-9 at the earliest, so the probabibility is that the picture is no
earlier than 1960, and probably much later. The other clue is the
multi-coloured livery: these were not common until the late 1960s-early
1970s, as far as I can gather.
Still, that narrows it down!
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: viraf phiroze mulla <sncf@godrej.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Tuesday, 8 December 1998 9:05
Subject: Fw: MYSTERY TRAIN


>
>
>----------
>From: viraf phiroze mulla <sncf@godrej.email
>To: champa@del3.email
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: MYSTERY TRAIN
>Date: Tuesday, December 08, 1998 3:03 PM
>
>
>Harsh & gang,
>
>Last week Sarosh & I got this photograph courtesy CPRO Western RAilway
>which had a caption "Frontier Mail On Vasai Bridge Circa 1940."
>A WP in 1940? These were the locos of the fifties and I am sure that
the
>picture must be clicked during the sixties. The train is shown crossing
the
>bridge towards Bombay in broad daylight. Now Frontier arrives early in
the
>morning and crosses this bridge in the wee hours of the morning. Which
>train can it be. Definitely not Flying Ranee cause the train has two
A/C
>coaches and a composite RMS coach towards the rear.
>
>Just curious
>Viraf

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Steam Engine Driving position; dishcover channel "programme"

Date: 08 Dec 1998 16:10:20 -0500


Dear Apurva and Annie,
Sorry about taking so long to respond to this. Seats outside the
engine
are quite common in tropical areas, though not, so far as I know, on
main
lines (perhaps Gwalior IS unique for that!) Queensland has many miles of
2ft
gauge sugar cane tramways, many of them steam up until the mid 1970s.
Many
steam engines had a protable leather-padded seat which could be hooked
over
the side of the cab cutout; the driver than sat outside, but still able
to
reach the regulator. The fireman had no such luck. Obviously impossible
on a
WP.
That programme on cable about accidents: I though it was a
shocker.
Badly made, sensational, critical but not analytic. Its disscussion of
accidents at Chicago suburban commuter stations never ONCE pointed out
the
lack of footover bridges. The coverage of the train falling off the
trestle
managed to convey that all main line railways had defective track. In
discussing the school bus that got clipped, no-one so much as suggested
that
the town planner who designed the traffic light so that long vehicles
could
be held ON THE TRACKS should be charged with misfeasance and culpable
homicide. And my favourite was that woman in the Safety Bureau or
whatver it
was in Washington, mouthing cliches about programs(sic) and targets,
obviously without knowing a thing about running a railroad. We, and the
railroads, deserve better. I'm sure US rail safety standards could do
with a
lift, but these guys haven't contributed to the discussion.
On a lighter note, I forgot to mention the other day that the
two
chaps who ride on the front of the DHR engines and put sand on the rails
are, or used to be, known as "ogg-wallahs" --- apparently a contraction
of
"odd-job wallahs".
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, 14 November 1998 7:39
Subject: Steam Engine Driving position


>Gang !
>
>I need info on this. Seeing a steam loco being driven is a hazy memory
>now - Did the WP and WG drivers ever have a seat to sit on ? I think
>there was a wooden slat that extended from the window (?) towards the
>firebox on which the driver sat. The lack of space in a MG locos
>prevented such an arrangement and the crew had to stand all the way (
>upto 12 hours at a stretch).
>I need confirmation on one bizarre practice found on the NG stream
>locos on the IR (and only on the IR ?) - The driver actually sat on a
>seat that was OUTSIDE the loco in the slipstream. I have seen a
>Gwalior - Sheopur Kalan N class (?) loco (in a picture) with a driver
>on an 'external' seat. What was the reason of this arrangement and how
>did the driver get in and out of his seat in a hurry ?
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
>

The content of the individual messages displayed here is subject to copyright by the original authors and may not be reproduced outside the context of IRFCA without permission.
Note: This site is not officially affiliated with Indian Railways! The official web site of Indian Railways is: http://www.indianrailways.gov.in
Site contact: webmaster@irfca.org
Copyright © 2010, IRFCA.org. About IRFCA  Contact Us  Search this site  Site Map  Links   Acknowledgements  Legal Information & Disclaimers