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From: Roger G. Morris <>

Subject: Re: Query: Fred and function of the rear end

Date: 25 Nov 1998 16:29:38 -0500


Allow me to add a little to this discussion :-

It is very difficult to translate the technology used across the various
railway systems throughout the world as all countries have their own
ideas about how things should work (at least one version!).

To try and translate the terminology is particularly difficult as my US
friends will testify (Quote from G. B. Shaw - "two great nations
separated by a common language" or something similar).

FRED is an acronym for F(lashing) R(ear) E(nd) D(evice) and refers
specifically to a flashing red light, usually battery powered, that sits
on the coupler or buffer beam or similar point on the last vehicle of a
train to signify that the train is complete.

The terminology has been frequently mangled and misused in the 'States
to mean any EOTD - E(nd) O(f) T(rain) D(evice). The most frequently used
nowadays is fitted with sophisticated analysis devices which can detect
movement and also the brake pressure in the train pipe. These readings
are then transmitted by radio to the leading locomotive and, if falling
outside pre-set parameters, can cause an automatic brake application to
be made.

In the UK we rely on the continuity of the train brake pipe being
proved, either by a manual test or, in more modern stock, by the signal
being propagated by the last vehicle in the train and relayed
electronically to the driving cab by a continuous wire through the
train. This can often be the same electrical circuits that provide hotel
power through a passenger train, the principles of time division
multiplexing being used (someone else can explain TDM - <big grin>).

To compare the various systems used around the world try and remember
that the principle of continuous braking is the same - just that the
application is different. If a train breaks in two *both* halves should
come to a stand without any action being taken by staff at either head
or rear of train. This means that all trains really only require a
driver to operate - that is, go from point A to point B.

The size of the crew is dependant on other work that needs to be carried
out - for instance a brake continuity test being performed by one member
of the crew opening a cock or lifting a pipe off of a terminator at the
back of the train and this process being witnessed by a driver in the
cab of the lead locomotive. This is the "classic" brake test used around
the world - but it does not need the person at the tail end operating
the cock, or whatever, to travel with the train. The additional crew are
usually there for safety purposes (to stop the driver falling asleep!)
or historical reasons (to make the driver's tea!!!).

A Brake Van would only be used to stop a train with its own brake with
an un-fitted (non-continuous brake fitted) train. These finally
disappeared in the late 1980's in the UK - I believe earlier in the
'States.

Another oddball crew size story is the monster electric railway service
in South Africa. These trains are so long (two or three miles!) that
when the conductor (or guard) has to go back to perform a brake test he
uses an all-terrain motor cycle that is contained in a large "hold"
amidships of the locomotive!

Sorry about the length - I hope it clears up some peoples'
misunderstandings.
--
Roger G. Morris

Rail images and more at <A HREF="http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/">http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/</A>
The home of the Buriton Wheelbarrow

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: FRED/EOTD,driver's tea

Date: 26 Nov 1998 00:53:20 -0500




> FRED is an acronym for F(lashing) R(ear) E(nd) D(evice) and refers
> specifically to a flashing red light, usually battery powered, that
sits
> on the coupler or buffer beam or similar point on the last vehicle of
a
> train to signify that the train is complete.

As I understand it, the term FRED correctly refers to only a flashing
tail
light and a proof of completeness of the rake while the EOTD is an
electronic device which detects brake pipe pressure, vibration monitors
and
a motion sensor whose readings are transmitted (only on a curve as per
Don's
mail) to the loco. Are the readings transmitted in a Healthy/Unhealthy
(OK/Not OK) format or are they analogue in nature where the cab gets a
display of how much the brake pipe pressure is etc. Is a website which
shows
a picture of FRED or a EOTD ?

> The size of the crew is dependant on other work that needs to be
carried
> out - for instance a brake continuity test being performed by one
member
> of the crew opening a cock or lifting a pipe off of a terminator at
the
> back of the train and this process being witnessed by a driver in the
> cab of the lead locomotive. This is the "classic" brake test used
around
> the world - but it does not need the person at the tail end operating
> the cock, or whatever, to travel with the train. The additional crew
are
> usually there for safety purposes (to stop the driver falling asleep!)
> or historical reasons (to make the driver's tea!!!).

Only the stream locos had provision for making tea in the cab (actually
the
top of the firebox), This tea is of a scalding but delicious (often
tinged
with a taste of coal) variety which is often served in equally hot steel
cups. The electric and diesel locos do not have a hotplate and the
drivers
carry a flask of the beverage with them. There is an tacit understanding
between the drivers and the catering contractors at some stations, that
the
drivers (and the other railway staff on the train) get snacks and tea in
return for holding the departure of the train off for as long as
possible.
The vital extra minutes means a heap of business for the caterers. The
sight
of a just cleared starter signal sometimes spurns a buying frenzy from
the
passengers.


> Sorry about the length - I hope it clears up some peoples'
> misunderstandings.

The long emails are welcome from you - they are very educating and funny
(the GB Shaw bit )

Apurva

From: Madhav Acharya <>

Subject: Crash at Amritsar

Date: 26 Nov 1998 05:08:40 -0500


Hi all

I just saw footage of a train crash near Amritsar - seems
to have been pretty major. Can anyone provide info on
which train it was etc ?

Thanks
Madhav

From: Madhav Acharya <>

Subject: Train crash - Frontier Mail

Date: 26 Nov 1998 06:07:41 -0500



In case someone hasn't already posted the news
here it is :

Eighty-three killed, 230
injured in India train collision

November 26, 1998
Web posted at: 4:52 a.m. EST (0952 GMT)

AMRITSAR, India (AP) -- An express train slammed into
another
passenger train that had derailed minutes earlier in
the
northwestern state of Punjab on Thursday, killing at
least 83 people and injuring 230 others, police
and railroad officials said.

The Amritsar-bound Frontier Mail from New Delhi
derailed
between Khanna and Payal villages and seven cars fell
on
the tracks.

Minutes later, the Calcutta-bound Sealdah Express
coming
from Jammu on another track struck the derailed cars,
according to Amrit Lal, a police officer at Khanna.

The accident occurred at 3.35 a.m. (2200 GMT
Wednesday),
Lal said in a telephone interview. The site is 250
kilometers (150 miles) northwest of New Delhi.

The engine and at least four cars of the express train
were crumpled like balls of paper in the impact, Lal
said. Rescue workers cut the cars with
acetylene torches to extricate 83 bodies, according to
railroad officials at the site.

More bodies were still lying in the cars and
authorities
called for more acetylene torches, cranes and other
equipment, Lal said.

Impromptu rescue workers

Workers took 230 people to local government and
private
hospitals, where 36 people were listed in serious
condition, according to S.K. Mirza, an
officer at the state police control room.

A passenger ran a few kilometers (miles) on the tracks
which cut through wheat fields to alert a railroad
watchman, who stopped trains in the area and
called for help.

Hundreds of villagers of Khanna joined police to help
remove bodies, carry people to hospitals or provide
food. Many of them offered their own
sweaters or shawls to the victims.

Shops and schools closed in Khanna as a mark of
respect
for the dead.

Private pharmacies donated medicine to help the small
government hospitals that were overwhelmed with
victims
and ran out of supplies. The government
prepared to bring in more doctors from the state
capital
Chandiragh.

Traffic along the northern routes in Punjab was
suspended to allow workers to rescue passengers and
remove the wreckage.


At least the local people were able to render assistance ! no mention
is made of any action taken by the Railways apart from the watchman
(I presume he's the guy at the level crossing)

Madhav

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$

Office : Residence :

Room 39210 105A Highland Blvd
Paulsboro Technical Center Newcastle, DE 19720
600 Billingsport Road
Paulsboro, NJ 08066

(609) 224-3360 (302) 325-1009

madhav_acharya@email.email

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Tragic accident

Date: 26 Nov 1998 08:16:35 -0500


Gang !

Bad news -

The Mumbai - Amritsar Frontier Mail collided with the Jammu - Sealdah
Express today morning approx 1000 Hrs at Khanna near Ludhiana. Two
coaches of the Frontier had derailed and the Sealdah express had a side
collision with the derailed coach. There are reports of 100 deaths and
250 serious injuries even as the rescue work is underway. Both the up
and down tracks are blocked and the tracks are scheduled to be cleared
by tomorrow afternoon 1500 hrs.

Side collisions are the worst type of accidents. They are undetectable
by the normal safety equipment. It depends on the vigilance of the
derailed train's driver and the guard to protect the other line. More
the driver than the guard as he is towards the front of the train. But
if the driver is in a shock or is hurt, who is to warn the oncoming
train that its track is blocked ? The area is notorious for fog in
these days, so the Sealdah Exp driver possibly did not see the debris in
his path. But these accidents are preventable by the open radio channel
which all the drivers, guards and the controllers are monitoring. Any
one on the Frontier could have uttered the words - 2903 derailed at Kms
such and such and that is enough as an advance warning to all in the
section to take extreme caution. It is possible that the Sealdah Exp
driver could see the derailed rake in his path but could not check the
speed in time. Tomorrow's papers should have more info. The tragedy is
that this is not the first time that a serious side collision has
claimed so many lives, but there is nothing to learn from the last
accident or this one to prevent another one happening. The victims could
have anyone of us - these are preferred trains for the traveling public
(the Frontier/ Golden Temple was recently discussed on the IRFCA as a
highly rated train) and must have been packed as usual.

Apurva

From: Roger G. Morris <>

Subject: Re: FRED/EOTD,driver's tea

Date: 26 Nov 1998 12:26:11 -0500


In article <365D16FF.54687DD7@giaspn01.email Apurva Bahadur
<iti@giaspn01.email writes
>
>As I understand it, the term FRED correctly refers to only a flashing
tail
>light and a proof of completeness of the rake while the EOTD is an
>electronic device which detects brake pipe pressure, vibration monitors
and
>a motion sensor whose readings are transmitted (only on a curve as per
Don's
>mail) to the loco. Are the readings transmitted in a Healthy/Unhealthy
>(OK/Not OK) format or are they analogue in nature where the cab gets a
>display of how much the brake pipe pressure is etc. Is a website which
shows
>a picture of FRED or a EOTD ?
>
Well.... yes, but with qualifications. An EOTD doesn't necessarily have
all the electronic functions available - it depends on the company using
it and the level of technology implemented. Radio transmission (at least
in the 'States) is much better nowadays and breaks in signal would cause
a service application of the brake, that is, the control "brain" would
think that the train had broken away or that the device had failed or
similar. The systems *must* be, by design, "fail safe".

Radio transmissions are now being used 'Stateside to control a rear
locomotive from the front cab (this gives a better application of
tractive power, rather than having all the power on the front, keeps
couplings stretched or compacted as required, saving breakaways, etc. )
in a more responsive application than the "Locontrol" system tried in
the 'seventies. The modern application is referred to as Distributed
Power and is usually abbreviated as DPU. The signal technology has
improved so much that this now becomes feasible, and, of course, saves
money as an additional crew is not required at the end of the train.

The signals are essentially analogue in the scope of the information
(ultimately) displayed although, naturally, the transmissions are
digital - isn't everything today? Digital is the buzz word of the late
'nineties.

I'm not sure about current manufacturers but a quick flick through a
1991 Jane's World Railways produced these manufacturers.

DSL (Dynamic Sciences Limited) of Quebec, Canada.

I'll copy the product description as it is better at description than I
am <grin>:-

"The DIGITAIR end-of-train telemetry system includes a coupler-mounted
Sense and Transmit Unit (STU) attaching to the last car in the train and
a Receive and Display Unit (RDU) attached to the locomotive engineer's
control console. The information sensed at the end of the train includes
the air brake trainline pressure, the motion of the last car, including
forward or reverse movement on starting, on/off condition of an attached
flashing and highly visible marker (HVM) light and condition of the
rechargeable batteries which power the STU. The system works in extreme
conditions (spec. snipped ........). The system utilises UHF
transmission at 457Mhz. In addition to displaying the end of train data
the RDU provides a resettable odometer for determining when the train
has progressed a full train length past CTC block limits or level
crossings. Critical alarms are monitored with audible alert on loss of
air pressure and battery weak or fail (discharged) condition."

The Mark 2 version of DIGITAIR brought in the ability to institute an
emergency brake application initiated at the rear end of a train, using
two way transmission. This was deemed necessary after several accidents
in the US when propagation times of emergency brake applications through
the length of a train (up to one and a half miles in the US) were deemed
to be too great.

Other Manufacturers include:-

Pulse Electronics Inc. Rockville, Maryland, USA

That's all I could find with a quick trawl but I know that there are
other manufacturers. As for web sites I suggest that you try The NMRA
index pages as a "jumping off point" - point your browser to
<A HREF="http://www.rrhistorical.com/nmra/rrmanuf.html">http://www.rrhistorical.com/nmra/rrmanuf.html</A>

>
>Only the stream locos had provision for making tea in the cab (actually
the
>top of the firebox), This tea is of a scalding but delicious (often
tinged
>with a taste of coal) variety which is often served in equally hot
steel
>cups. The electric and diesel locos do not have a hotplate and the
drivers
>carry a flask of the beverage with them. There is an tacit
understanding
>between the drivers and the catering contractors at some stations, that
the
>drivers (and the other railway staff on the train) get snacks and tea
in
>return for holding the departure of the train off for as long as
possible.
>The vital extra minutes means a heap of business for the caterers. The
sight
>of a just cleared starter signal sometimes spurns a buying frenzy from
the
>passengers.
>
>
Not quite true in the UK. All diesel and electric locos came fitted with
a hotplate - the drivers wouldn't have taken them out of the shed
otherwise! The one thing that steam had (has?) which others don't is the
ability to cook a traditional British Breakfast on the shovel in the
firebox - apologies to vegetarians but bacon, mushrooms, eggs and
anything else that could be fried! It tastes even better when cooked in
the cab but it does help if you clean the coal shovel first!

Oh well, back to rewriting the web pages.

(My sympathies to all concerned in the Amritsar (?) crash - it hurts
when these things happen to others within the railway community)
--
Roger G. Morris

Rail images and more at <A HREF="http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/">http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/</A>
The home of the Buriton Wheelbarrow

From: prakash <>

Subject: Re: FRED/EOTD,driver's tea

Date: 26 Nov 1998 12:59:09 -0500





Apurva,

FRED also acts as a motion sensor.

In every yard, the brake test is mandatory before starting the train.
Engineer and yard crew communicate with each other by walkie-talkie
during
such test. Although modern locos in US carry 5000+ gallons of diesel
(US Gallon=3.76 liters) and can travel more than 1000 miles without
refuelling,
they are refuelled every few hundred miles (and brakes tested).

There are hot axle sensors installed by the track every hundred or so
miles.
They transmit warning to crew if any axle is hot.

I do not know if EOTD or FRED monitor brake pipe pressure. However, I do
remember
having read in news some few years back that they were adding a back up
system
for brakes in freight trains. A run-away train derailed near San
Bernardino
in
Los Angeles county. It had a back up system but it was not activated.
(San
Bernardino mountains has 2.8% gradient and train derailed during
descent).

As far as tea is concerned, I prefer water from canvass bag. It is
really
ideal
in hot climate in India. Yankees prefer black coffee so no hot plates
are
needed;
all they need is a thermos.

Annie had mentioned ACE as another single operator train. ACE stands for
Altamount
Commuter Express. It connects California's central valley towns to SF
Bay
area.
Started a few weeks earlier, it operates two trains in morning to San
Jose
returning
to Fresno in the evening.

Prakash

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: parking brakes - crash

Date: 26 Nov 1998 14:32:51 -0500


EMD says their latest offering, the SD90MAC, has an electrically
assisted parking brake.
Odd, the traditional term in the US for this is "hand brake".
Maybe they decided "hand brake" didn't sound good since it was electric.

Anyway, an interesting (mis)use of RR terminology, thought some on this
list might have interest.

Please keep those of us on the other side of the world up to date on the
Amritsar crash. Terrible tragedy.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Whats a henway?

Date: 26 Nov 1998 14:38:54 -0500


Oh, about two pounds (old joke).

Anyway, what are the weights of IR locos?

The bigger US locos come in at aobut 425,000 lbs.

using the "scale as cube of gage" rule, that makes 677,000 lbs for an IR

loco. But, I don't remember bridges in India being that much more sturdy

than US bridges.

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: What's an IR locoway?

Date: 26 Nov 1998 20:24:31 -0500


> Anyway, what are the weights of IR locos?
I suppose the heaviest locos used in India were
the N class Garratts of the Bengal Nagpur Railway,
coming in at 235 tonnes (517000 lbs): still less
than what the cube of gauge rule would predict !
> But, I don't remember bridges in India being that much more sturdy
> than US bridges.
The axleloads in India being much lower than the US,
I guess. What are the maximum axleloads on regular
right-of-way in each country ? I am told that it
exceeeds 30 tonnes on most US lines......

--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Tragic accident: Apurva/Madhav

Date: 26 Nov 1998 20:31:56 -0500


This is terrible news. I read it in the papers today.
> Side collisions are the worst type of accidents. They are undetectable
> by the normal safety equipment. It depends on the vigilance of the
> derailed train's driver and the guard to protect the other line.
I think regulations require the driver to operate the flasher signal
located next to his headlight to warn oncoming trains.
> But if the driver is in a shock or is hurt, who is to warn
> the oncoming train that its track is blocked ?
The Frontier Mail driver should not have been hurt, as the
locomotive was unaffected.
> But these accidents are preventable by the open radio channel
> which all the drivers, guards and the controllers are monitoring. Any
> one on the Frontier could have uttered the words - 2903 derailed at
Kms
> such and such and that is enough as an advance warning to all in the
> section to take extreme caution. It is possible that the Sealdah Exp
> driver could see the derailed rake in his path but could not check the
> speed in time.
The papers say that the parted coaches of the Frontier Mail derailed
AFTER the coupling failed. I wonder if it happened the other way
around: even a single bogie suddenly derailing on one of the coaches
at speed would immediatly put a load on the coupling, which could then
part. It will probably be impossible to ever know the truth
considering how badly track and coaches have been mangled.

But then, despite their bruised safety record, Indian Railways
must still be far safer than road travel in India.

Madhav wrote:
>At least the local people were able to render assistance !
>no mentionis made of any action taken by the Railways apart from the
watchman
>(I presume he's the guy at the level crossing)
The Indian Express says that the level crossing was 150 meters away
from the derailmant site. The gateman did try to call the controller
immediatly after the derailment happened, but it was already
too late. There would also have been no time to place detonaters.


--
Jayant S
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: driver's tea: Roger Morris

Date: 26 Nov 1998 20:40:00 -0500


> Not quite true in the UK. All diesel and electric locos came fitted
with
> a hotplate - the drivers wouldn't have taken them out of the shed
> otherwise! The one thing that steam had (has?) which others don't is
the
> ability to cook a traditional British Breakfast on the shovel in the
> firebox - apologies to vegetarians but bacon, mushrooms, eggs and
> anything else that could be fried! It tastes even better when cooked
in
> the cab but it does help if you clean the coal shovel first!

Many years ago, I spent a few hours in the cab of a WG
at NJP. They crew siphoned hot water to make tea, and
toasted their chapatis in the firebox, using a separate
clean shovel.......

--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

From: prakash <>

Subject: ETD/HTD and more

Date: 26 Nov 1998 20:42:57 -0500




Apurva,

Eureka! I was able to locate info about ETD (End of Train Device)
and HTD (Head of the Train device) in Burlington Northern Santa
Fe railroad site. (<A HREF="http://www.jccc.net/orgs/nars/bnsf/index.html)">http://www.jccc.net/orgs/nars/bnsf/index.html)</A>
To view it, I had to download Adobe Acrobat (4.5 Gb) first and
then subsequent manuals. All contain some or the other useful
info but it was "Air Brake and Train handling rules #2", that
contains ETD/HTD as well as remote operation of rear consists or
bankers.

Since ETD offers all the functions of FRED and more, I sought a
reference that ETD will work only on curve. I did not find one.

Here are the key elements.

1) ETD transmits data every 55 secs.
2) HTD polls ETD every 10 min.
3) They both have to be set with same code number to ensure
proper communication.
4) HTD has internal audio alarm to alert an engineer.
5) ETD could be two way communicator or one way.

HTD with two way ETD provides following status info and
operations.

1) Distance traveled by loco.
2) Last car brake pipe pressure monitoring (less than 45 PSI)
3) Last car low pressure alarm
4) Marker light status (on or off)
5) Battery status (of ETD battery)
6) Loss of communication alarms
7) Automatic and manual communication test
8) Rear of train emergency braking.

If consist at rear is used as ETD, it offers more info and more
sophisticated panel display and features. You can see:

1) Amps in rear loco
2) Brake pipe pressure in PSI
3) Brake pipe air flow in CFM, as applicable.
4) Enable/disable brake valve in rear consist
5) Enable only emergency and engine braking in rear
6) Enable dynamic braking, throttle independently

Using distributed power mode, the fields of rear consist
generators are always on. Hence Lead unit MUST place reverser in
neutral when stationary and move it forward just when ready to
start.

I'll scan and send the image of control panel to you separately.

Prakash

From: prakash <>

Subject: Tragic accident

Date: 26 Nov 1998 20:54:39 -0500




This accident leaves me baffled. In 70s, similar accident
took place between Surat and Vadodara (was it near Bharuch???).
A goods train derailed at a small station; everyone knew that
a fast express/mail was due soon but had no means to
communicate on time.

After the inquiry, an audible alarm was installed on WR locos.
Loco whose rake has derailed would set an alarm that would be
transmitted and heard by any loco within a few kilometers. A
picture of this box may be seen at <A HREF="http://www.jps.net/prakash/wcam1">http://www.jps.net/prakash/wcam1</A>

Now I wonder if this was abandoned later or the driver of Frontier
Mail did not have enough time to trigger the alarm to prevent this
accident.

Prakash

From: prakash <>

Subject: LPG wagons on IR

Date: 26 Nov 1998 21:32:08 -0500




Hi,

Looking at Apurva's webpage, <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/LPG.htm">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/LPG.htm</A> ,
that shows LPG wagons at Pune, some with 4 wheels, others with 8. I
wonder why IR is still using 4 wheeled wagons which limit speed to 70
kms compared to 100 kms for 8 wheel versions.

Can anyone shed some light?

Prakash

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Double headed WCAM 3 freighter

Date: 27 Nov 1998 03:37:38 -0500


Gang !

Just to post a sighting of a double WCAM 3 headed freight train
standing in the Shivaji Nagar station facing Mumbai. This is the first
time I have seen a WCAM 3 hauling a freight train and this is also the
first time I have seen this loco double heading. The load was a bulk
cement (pneumatic loading, unloading ?) special wagons with BCC
written on the sides. The rake had two caboose / brake vans at the
end. The WCAM 3s had the old style (but newly painted) livery of dark
blue and cream (the livery of the WCM 1, 2,3,4, & 5 in the last
decade), and looked great. I was too far away and the wrong side of
the road divider to have a closer look, but the sighting made my day.

Apurva

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Re: What's an IR locoway?

Date: 27 Nov 1998 04:46:44 -0500


Jayant S wrote:
>
> > Anyway, what are the weights of IR locos?
> I suppose the heaviest locos used in India were
> the N class Garratts of the Bengal Nagpur Railway,
> coming in at 235 tonnes (517000 lbs): still less
> than what the cube of gauge rule would predict !
> > But, I don't remember bridges in India being that much more sturdy
> > than US bridges.
> The axleloads in India being much lower than the US,
> I guess. What are the maximum axleloads on regular
> right-of-way in each country ? I am told that it
> exceeeds 30 tonnes on most US lines......

Well, consider that the weight capacity of any new wagon built here in
the US is 100 tons (200,000 lbs), add another 40-50,000 lbs for the tare
(empty) weight of the car. Let's say for argument's sake,
wagon+load=240,000 lbs, or about 109,000 kg, which is 109 tonnes I
believe. Divide by four and get 27.5 tonnes...and this is really the
low end. 125 ton wagons are coming into wide use here; in the 1960s the
Central Railroad of New Jersey had a class of passenger locos that had
axle loadings of 35 tons.

As Caprotti (of valve gear fame) said when he visited the US in the
1930s and saw our railways, "You don't move trains - you move houses!"
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

From: prakash <>

Subject: Re: ETD/HTD and more

Date: 27 Nov 1998 07:55:46 -0500




Hi Folks,

> To view it, I had to download Adobe Acrobat (4.5 Gb) first

This is a typo error. Acrobat 3.02 is 4.5 Mb and not 4.5 Gb.
My apology for inconvenience.

Prakash

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Fw: HINDI VERSION OF WINDOWS 98

Date: 27 Nov 1998 09:32:14 -0500


Hello,
Sorry if you find this bordering on the spam.Although NOWHERE connected
to
the IR, doesn't this remind you of IR's bi-lingual stance everywhere:
Pantry car/rasoi yaan, tourist car/paryatan yan, sleeper/shayan yaan
coach/dibba, airconditioned chair car/vaataanukool kursi yaan, etc.etc.
Worst come to worst, enjoy a hearty laugh before you tell me to lay off!
Best regards.
Shankar



>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 16:51:06 -0800 (PST)
>>Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 09:28:10 +0530
>>Subject: HINDI VERSION OF WINDOWS 98
>>
>>
>>Subject: HINDI VERSION OF WINDOWS 98
>>
>>
>>
>> Hindi version of Windows 98 = Atyant Mulayam Khidkiyan 98
>>> >
>>> > Atyant Mulayam = Microsoft
>>> > Khidki = Window
>>> > Phaail = File
>>> > Bachao = Save
>>> > Aise Bachao = Save as
>>> > Subko Bachao = Save All
>>> > Mujhe Bachao = Help
>>> > Madad Pe Madad = Help On Help
>>> > Dhoondo = Find
>>> > Firse Dhoondo = Find Again
>>> > Hilao = Move
>>> > Chaara = Options
>>> > Bura sandesh yaa phail naam = Bad command or file name
>>> > Garbh girao,firse koshish karo,naakaamyab = Abort,retry,fail
>>> > Bichhavo = Tile
>>> > Thar Bhejo = Send Mail
>>> > Daak = Mail
>>> > Daakiya = Mailer
>>> > Bhaago = Run
>>> > Chhaapo = Print
>>> > Dekh Ke Chhaapo = Print Preview
>>> > Chipkao = Paste
>>> > Khaas Chipkao = Paste Special
>>> > Mitaoo = Delete
>>> > Kagaz Ooper = Page Up
>>> > Kagaz Neeche = Page Down
>>> > Anth = End
>>> > Saaf karo = clear
>>> > Sab kuch saaf karo = clear all
>>> > Ghar (Or Makan) = Home
>>> > Topi Ka Tala = CapsLock
>>> > Hathiyaar = Tools
>>> > Khuli Chaadar = Spreadsheet
>>> > Futaas Ki Goli Kha = Exit
>>> > Ped = Tree
>>> > Chooha = Mouse
>>> > Chooha Chalak = Mouse Driver (Software)
>>> > Tik-Tik Karo = Click
>>> > Idhar-se-Udhar.Udhar-se-Idhar wala danda = Scrollbar
>>> > Pardha = Screen
>>> > Pardha Bachanewala = Screen Saver
>>> > Krimi = VIRUS
>>> > Tika = Anti Virus
>>> > Karo = Do
>>> > Galthi = Error
>>> > Ghusao = Insert
>>> > Pahale Ghusao = Insert Before
>>> > Beech Mein ghusao = Insert Between
>>> > Baadhme Ghusao = Insert After
>>> > Chabi Phalak = Key board
>>> > Choohha Ka Bisthar = Mouse pad
>>> > Avaaz Phodney Wali Cheez = Sound Blaster
>>> > Antarjatiya Jaal = InterNet
>>> > Baath-cheeth Dabba = Dialog Box
>>> > Chale? = Exit?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>

From: Larry Russell <>

Subject: Accident

Date: 27 Nov 1998 10:32:44 -0500


Hi all,
Anyone know which locomotives were involved in the accident and damage
estimates?
Larry

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