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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Dombivli-Vasai !

Date: 17 Nov 1998 23:55:04 -0500


> Yes, as I am from Dombivli, looking at this type since the tracks were
> laid, way back in 1977-80. Then Viraf, used to ask me, to make
sketches of
> this newly laid out track. Now one realises the use of such junction.
A
> train like Mangala Exp. now diverted on this route, can take the track
> upto a point just before Diva & diverts on towards Panvel. Thus it
need
> not go upto Diva.

Have you actually seen the point where the two curved tracks (leading
from Dombivali side and Diva side) meet ? Is that point manned ? Or is
there a cabin meant for that point and the associated signals ?
Alternatively is the whole network controlled from Dombivali itself ?
I also want you to confirm that the Mangala Express express never
comes on to the 4 CR tracks. Instead it takes the fifth track that
runs to the side of the fast Up track. This fifth track is not shown
in your diagram. Otherwise a lovely diagram. I did not know that there
was a
factory (Premier Auto) near the 'point'. I always thought that the
Premier plant was in Kurla.

Apurva

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Pune - Nashik and a few more dream trains

Date: 18 Nov 1998 01:27:08 -0500



-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
Cc: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <smg@godrej.email IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Pune - Nashik and a few more dream trains


>> I think that this is the most practicle route. Last time I was at
Pune, I
>> licked the CR/WR time table from cover to cover in order to find a
>> connection for Indore at Khandwa for a train out of Pune but there
isn't
>> any.
>
>Here it is, I checked it today morning : 1077 Dn. Jhelum Express (Pune
>dep
>1735), Khandwa arr 0440. Connecting MG train, 9672 Dn. Khandwa - Ajmer
>fast
>passenger (KNW dep 1000, Mhow arr/dep 1435- 1505, Indore arr/dep 1605-
>1620,
>Ratlam arr/dep 2010 - 2130 (dinner break ?), Nimach arr/dep 0031 -
>0041,
>Chittaurgarh arr/dep 0205 - 0235, Bhilwara arr/dep 0339 - 0359 and
Ajmer
>0740arr.

That is no connection. Who wants to wait at Khandwa for five hours in
the
morning to catch a train which will take you to Mhow by late afternoon
only.
There is a passenger train from Khandwa at 03.05 dep. (gosh ! what a
time)for Mhow. Ideally I would like this to make a connection with
Jhelum
somehow. Even the Gyanganga(dep. Pune 16.05) misses this connection by
20
mts !

> If you leave by 2779 Dn Goa Super (Pune dep 0420, Khandwa arr
>1505). The connecting MG train 9770 Dn. is Purna Jaipur Express which
>arrives/departs Khandwa at 1600 - 1615, Mhow 2030 - 2100, Indore 2150
>-2205, Ratlam 0045 - 0100, Nimach 0358 - 0408, Chittaurgarh 0530 -
>0550, Ajmer 1030 - 1040 and then on to the NR. The Khandwa MG section
is
>covered in the 1998 WR timetable pages 81 - 83.


This practically means the whole day in train and previous night turning
in
bed to get up at 03.00 to catch a train at 04.20. And there are good
chances
that you might miss the connection because the Meenakshi does not wait
for
Super. And if you do then you have no option but to sit for the 03.05
train.

HARSH

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Dombivli-Vasai !

Date: 18 Nov 1998 01:53:08 -0500


> > I also want you to confirm that the Mangala Express express never
> > comes on to the 4 CR tracks. Instead it takes the fifth track that
> > runs to the side of the fast Up track. This fifth track is not shown
> > in your diagram.
>
> No, the Mangala Express takes the Up Thru, track upto a diversion
> somewhere under the overbridge . So upto Dombivli, from Kalyan it uses
> the C.R. Up thru, then here the 5th track is branched out from the up
thru
> which in turn goes towards Panvel.

What about the Trivandrum Rajdhani ? That comes from Vasai and then has
no
business to come on to the Up through track - that must be using the 5th
track
- please confirm. I remember once I was footplating the Down Deccan
Queen and
a Ratlam WDM 2 hauled Maruti car special rake (returning from JPTN ?)
was
using the 5th line. There was the usual arm waving and the warm
camaraderie
between the drivers of the DQ and the Maruti rake. The two entries/
exits for
Konkan Rail and the BSR (Vasai Road) track along with this 5th track
makes this
region very interesting.
Apurva

>
>
> > Otherwise a lovely diagram. I did not know that there was a
> > factory (Premier Auto) near the 'point'. I always thought that the
> > Premier plant was in Kurla.
>
> Thanks for the compliments, This Premier Auto used to manufacture the
NE
> 118, nowadays it's facing closure. This is on the Kalyan - Shil Road,
but
> the inside area of this factory, is so vast that the other end is near
this
> Vasai line. Infact the line takes a very big curve as it slides down
from
> the overbridge & passes thru populated areas of villages on the
outskirts
> of Dom.
>
> Shrinivas

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: "Not to be Loose Shunted"

Date: 18 Nov 1998 02:13:32 -0500


> If the wagon come in too fast, the waiting crew slows it
> down by applying the manual brakes.....
I know that Mughalsarai yard had wagon retarders for
this: are they common in large IR yards all over India ?
> One of the parts I respect highly as an engineer is the buckeye
> coupler - it takes unbelievable abuse in its lifetime.
I can imagine.
> During the same deadly shunting operation I saw the khalasi
> preceding the still moving wagon...
I suppose wagon retarders would eliminate this danger ?
> Jayant could stand on the Blue Diamond bridge to see the hump just
> below the bridge facing towards the diesel shed.
Will check.

Thanks, Apurva !

--
Jayant S
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: "Not to be Loose Shunted"

Date: 18 Nov 1998 03:50:32 -0500




Jayant S wrote:

> > If the wagon come in too fast, the waiting crew slows it
> > down by applying the manual brakes.....
> I know that Mughalsarai yard had wagon retarders for
> this: are they common in large IR yards all over India ?

Yes, I forgot the manual (and automatic in the US ?) retarders. But then
these are the features of highly automated yards. GIT is yet to achieve
this status. I want the US gang to explain how the marshaling operations
are done there - I guess the hose coupling and the security pin has to
be put in place by hand there too.

One subject that I want to discuss with the gang are the great
marshaling yards on the IR.
Without any doubt the greatest yard in India (and Asia ?) is Mughal
Sarai. What I remember is that the yard actually begins three stations
before and three stations after the MGS station. There are tens of miles
of track and literally hundreds of trains. Anywhere you see till the
horizon (where visible of course :-) ) there is some railway scene.
There are stories of entire trains rakes getting lost here. And the MGS
guys run internal trains to handle the junta going to and from the yard
facilities. MGS homes Diesel as well as Electric locos. How many IR
locations can the gang list which home (home shed - not trip shed)
Diesels as well as Electrics ? Are there any more places where both type
of locos carry the same station code like MGS.
Katni ? No - NKJ (New Katni Jn) and KTN are two different stations, any
other ?
I would love to gloat over the superlative facts about the MGS Jn. if
the gang can contribute. Does Vijay Balasubramanian know more ? (since
he is actually from the holy city of Varanasi - the almost twin city of
MGS ? )

My guess is that the number two marshaling yard on the IR could be
either Barauni or Bhusawal.

Apurva

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Through service

Date: 18 Nov 1998 07:17:29 -0500


> Here is a listing from the 1998 CR timetable's 'through and sectional
> carriage services'
> This is a bizarre travel from Mumbai to Daund via Manmad ! This is
> one II class sleeper coach which leaves Mumbai on the 1003 Mumbai -
> Nanded Devagiri Express at 2120 to reach Manmad at 0250, then gets
> attached at 0420 on the 1602 passenger to reach Daund at 1115 ! Now
> that is a travel of 14 hours to cover 261 (CSTM - MMR) + 238 (MMR -
> DD) = 499 Kms. The route KMs from Mumbai to Daund via Pune is 268 and
> an average time for slower trains like 1023 Sidheswar Express is 6
> hours. Such odd circuitous routes do exist and benefit a number of
> passengers who want to travel from intermediate stations. Only nuts
> like us would actually use this CSTM - DD via MMR coach to get to
> Daund !

This is a classic example of through service from Mumbai to a section
that
does not
fall on any major trunk line but connects two such lines - so we have
plenty
of trains from Mumbai to the two endpoints of such a section but none to
the
intermediate stations. Through service is the only practical option.
Another example would be the connection from Mumbai Central to Nandurbar
via
Surat - one sleeper coach from the Mumbai-Viramgam Passenger gets
attached
to the Surat-Bhusaval Passenger at Surat. Through service is also
available between Dadar and Balharshah via Wardha, the trains being
Sewagram
Exp. and Wardha-Balharshah Pass.


I have been thinking about an overnight through service between
Kolhapur
and Igatpuri via Pune. 1-2 coaches from the Maharashtra Exp. could get
detached at Manmad (5.30 arrival) and then attached to the Sewagram Exp.
(dep. 7.10 am) till Igatpuri. This will take about 9 1/2 hrs. between
Pune
and Nasik Rd. Of course, this will add about 10 mts. to Sewagram's halt
duration at Manmad but will not increase the Igatpuri halt duration
which is
already 20 mts. In the return direction, these coaches could be
attached to
the Igatpuri-Manmad shuttle and then transfered over to the Maharashtra
Exp.
at Manmad. If the Igatpuri-Manmad shuttle is a MEMU then this may not
be
possible. Also, is there a problem if different set of trains are used
in
the Up and Dn. directions?

Vijay

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Through service

Date: 18 Nov 1998 08:48:03 -0500


> This is a classic example of through service from Mumbai to a
section that
> does not
> fall on any major trunk line but connects two such lines - so we have
plenty
> of trains from Mumbai to the two endpoints of such a section but none
to the
> intermediate stations. Through service is the only practical option.

There are plenty of takers for the these services. Even if the bus
travel takes less time, it makes sense to sleep to your destination and
arrive at some sensible time.
Talking of taking a circuitous route there exists a certain Manish
Karnik in Mumbai who came to Pune via Mumbai Central - Udhna - Nadurbar
- Bhusawal - Manmad - Daund - Pune ! All unreserved and all unplanned.
Now that is what you call love for traveling on the IR !

> I have been thinking about an overnight through service between
Kolhapur
> and Igatpuri via Pune. 1-2 coaches from the Maharashtra Exp. could
get
> detached at Manmad (5.30 arrival) and then attached to the Sewagram
Exp.
> (dep. 7.10 am) till Igatpuri. This will take about 9 1/2 hrs. between
Pune
> and Nasik Rd. Of course, this will add about 10 mts. to Sewagram's
halt
> duration at Manmad but will not increase the Igatpuri halt duration
which is
> already 20 mts.

Problem : Maharashtra carries two or three coaches daily to be attached
on the 1027 or the 1065/67 at Bhusawal. It is already a 18 coach train.
Sewagram is an air braked rake, Maharashtra is vacuum braked. Otherwise
a great plan. I would definitely take this service to get to Nashik.

> In the return direction, these coaches could be attached to
> the Igatpuri-Manmad shuttle and then transfered over to the
Maharashtra Exp.
> at Manmad. If the Igatpuri-Manmad shuttle is a MEMU then this may not
be
> possible.

Surprise - the MMR/IGP/MMR is a loco hauled train - that too by a
WDM 2 from Pune shed, in an electrified trunk section !

> Also, is there a problem if different set of trains are used in
> the Up and Dn. directions?

Before the advent of the 1003/1004 Devagiri, this CSTM - DD via MMR
coach used to hauled by different trains 3004 in the down direction I am
not sure about the Up train - will look into an older CR tt and let you
know.

Apurva

>
> Vijay

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Re: Dombivli-Vasai !

Date: 18 Nov 1998 08:52:04 -0500



Hi!

Apurva,

> Have you actually seen the point where the two curved tracks (leading
> from Dombivali side and Diva side) meet ? Is that point manned ? Or is
> there a cabin meant for that point and the associated signals ?

I never been near the point, but from the main lines one can see two
signals, facing two opposite directions. There is a signal cabin just
below the overbridge which takes the trains from Vasai to this point.

> Alternatively is the whole network controlled from Dombivali itself ?

Must be from this abovementioned cabin.

> I also want you to confirm that the Mangala Express express never
> comes on to the 4 CR tracks. Instead it takes the fifth track that
> runs to the side of the fast Up track. This fifth track is not shown
> in your diagram.

No, the Mangala Express takes the Up Thru, track upto a diversion
somewhere under the overbridge . So upto Dombivli, from Kalyan it uses
the C.R. Up thru, then here the 5th track is branched out from the up
thru
which in turn goes towards Panvel.

> Otherwise a lovely diagram. I did not know that there was a
> factory (Premier Auto) near the 'point'. I always thought that the
> Premier plant was in Kurla.

Thanks for the compliments, This Premier Auto used to manufacture the NE
118, nowadays it's facing closure. This is on the Kalyan - Shil Road,
but
the inside area of this factory, is so vast that the other end is near
this
Vasai line. Infact the line takes a very big curve as it slides down
from
the overbridge & passes thru populated areas of villages on the
outskirts
of Dom.


Shrinivas

From: Vdate <>

Subject: Re: "Not to be Loose Shunted"

Date: 18 Nov 1998 09:10:23 -0500


Loose shunting is a process where a shunting engine is not physically
connected to a wagon(s) and just pushes them. The shunting engine would
break
after the wagons have gained enough momentum to roll on their own to hit
another set of wagon with just enough force that the inertia of
stationary
wagons stop the rolling wagons without recoiling. The skill lies in
judging
the right speed distance over which wagons have to travel and the
momentum and
inertia of the two wagon sets (moving and stationary). It is fun to
watch
these operations. This procedure cannot be applied to dangerous cargo
and to
precious cargo (passengers). Anecdotally, the Udaipur State Railway,
prior to
1947, would not allow Jodhpur Railway locos to enter Udaipur State
Railway
tracks and the passenger rake had to loose shunted. This needs to
checked
out.

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: "Not to be Loose Shunted"

Date: 18 Nov 1998 09:44:31 -0500


> I would love to gloat over the superlative facts about the MGS Jn. if
> the gang can contribute. Does Vijay Balasubramanian know more ? (since
> he is actually from the holy city of Varanasi - the almost
> twin city of
> MGS ? )

Mughalsarai is about 17 kms. from Varanasi and so is not really a
twin-city.
However, it is a fairly convenient rail-head for Varanasi with frequent
bus
service (from Beniya Bagh) and a plethora of taxis and tempos. In fact,
during the off-monsoon months a pontoon bridge floating across the
Ganges is
opened to public transport at the south end of the Ghats. This used to
reduce travel time between BHU/vicinity and Mughalsarai. I can remember
many an occasion where I have boarded a train from this station for
Howrah/Asansol/Mumbai/Delhi.

It is my favorite station on IR just because of the volume of traffic
that
passes through it (an ideal station for trainspotting) and the fact that
it
is on an AC electrified section. In addition, electric and
diesel-hauled
trains pour in from both the directions with loco changeovers happening
very
frequently. A chance to see a variety of locos. in action - WAM-1/2/4,
WAG-2/4/5..., WDM2/4, WAP1/5.


> One subject that I want to discuss with the gang are the great
> marshaling yards on the IR.
> Without any doubt the greatest yard in India (and Asia ?) is Mughal
> Sarai. What I remember is that the yard actually begins three stations
> before and three stations after the MGS station. There are

Not true. If one is traveling towards MGS from Gaya on the Grand Chord
section, the yard begins about a km. before the Patna line joins in (one
can
clearly the bypass line that connects the Gaya line with the Patna line)
and
then accompanies you for about 7-8 mts. till your train reaches the
station.
As one continues towards Allahabad/Varanasi, it ends just before the
WDM4
shed. What is interesting is the track arrangement. A total of three
main
lines proceed towards the west out of MGS. The leftmost is electrified
and
is the Dn. Allahabad/Varanasi line. Next to it is the unelectrified Up
Varanasi line. Some distance away is the electrified Up Allahabad line
that
goes up a gradient. Pretty soon, the Dn Varanasi line branches away
from
the Allahabad line, takes a sharp curve to the right (along with the Up
track) and passes below the Up Allahabad line.

> And the MGS
> guys run internal trains to handle the junta going to and
> from the yard
> facilities. MGS homes Diesel as well as Electric locos. How many IR

There is a single electrified 180-degree loop line that connects the
North
and South ends of the yard. One passes below it as one approaches MGS
from
the East.

I had purchased a twin book set covering the technical aspects of IR
operation (permanent way, scheduling, signalling, etc.) about 10 years
back
but never really had the time to dig deep into it. It has quite a bit
of
stuff on MGS. Will try to locate it soon. It did mention that MGS has
wagon retarders.


> locations can the gang list which home (home shed - not trip shed)
> Diesels as well as Electrics ? Are there any more places

How about Itarsi, Ratlam and Ahmedabad?


>
> My guess is that the number two marshaling yard on the IR could be
> either Barauni or Bhusawal.
>
Here are some stations with big marshaling yards - Itarsi (at the
SouthWest
end), Ahmedabad (Vatva yard), Vadodara (North end), Vijayawada (North
end) -
this station has a lot of platforms (8?)


Vijay

From: ranand <>

Subject: Re: Through service

Date: 18 Nov 1998 10:03:23 -0500


I wonder if anyone recalls that there used to be a Bombay-Daund-Manmad
passenger
which seems to have disappeared.

Also, another tidbit: There used to be two Mumbai Pune overnight
passengers.
One of them was later extended to Solapur and became the Siddeshwari
Express
(although it retained the overnight run from Mumbai to Pune). I notice
now
that it
has finally become a regular express with limited stops all the way.

Anand

Internet: anand@watson.email
External tel: (914) 784 7054
Notes: Rangachari Anand/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
Tie-line: 863 7054

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Pune - Indore

Date: 18 Nov 1998 10:19:51 -0500


How about a Pune-Indore Exp. that shares schedules with the Ahimsa
Exp.
between Pune and Vadodara and runs on the non-Ahimsa days? Such a train
would leave Pune at 7.30 pm and reach Indore around 3.00 pm next day.
In
the other direction, it would leave Indore around 9.30 am to reach Pune
at
5.30 am the next morning.

I was looking at the possibility of a through connection with a
transfer
at either Itarsi or Bhopal but there are no Indore-bound trains to match
the
timings of the Jhelum/Goa/Swarnajayanti.

Vijay

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: "Not to be Loose Shunted"

Date: 18 Nov 1998 10:54:57 -0500


Hello,
"Loose shunting" is where a car is left to roll under its own momentum
till
it meets the rest of the train with a big bang.
Used in combination with hump shunting, the concept held good in those
good
old days of breakbulk wagon operation.
Here, a train made up of cars bound for various destinations is pulled
by a
shunting engine for a certain distance within the yard.
Each car has an individual destination tag. A shunting staff will read
the
tag and uncouple the car,i.e. undo the coupling and then signal to the
driver.
The driver then pushes the train up a small hump in the yard with some
force.The uncoupled car also gets pushed along.
On the other side of the hump is a series of lines, where trains are
being
made up. Each line is assigned a certain destination.
On reaching the summit of teh hump, the driver brakes suddenly. While
the
rest of the train stops, the uncoupled car rolls on, down the slope,
gathering momentum. The pointsman then works the points and guides the
car
to the respective line, where the car met the rest of the train with a
deafening thud.

Problem one: the strain of the coupling when the engine brakes suddenly.

Problem two: Its OK with the modern CBC (buck eye) couplers which are
uncoupled with a simple yank on teh lever, and which couple
automatically on
impact. But in those days of screw couplings, the shunting master had to
wait
at the last car, wait for the impact, then get under the car and start
coupling real fast. Some brave souls simply stood on looking upon a
massive
freight car bearing upon them, brave the bang, then coolly couple on. An
error in judgmement, and--So danger to life and limb of the staff.
Problem three: Damage to cars themselves and the contents of teh cars.
Problem four: Unwary passers by coming under the unguarded cars running
at
speed. And so on and so forth.
The explosion hazard if petroleum cars are shunted by these primitive
methods can well be imagined.
So with petroleum cars, EASY DOES IT! Thats what 'Not to be loose
shunted"
means.
Incidentally, care is to be taken even after the train is made up. I do
not
know about US railroads,but there is a practice on the IR (and also in
the
UK: I've seen pictures of it) of coupling one or two empty freight
wagons on
either end of the tanker train. i.e. the tanker train will have two
empty
freight cars directly behind teh engine and immediately before the guard
car.(caboose).
Commonly known as BARRIER CARS, these empties are meant to absorb some
of
the impact in the event of a collision at speed, reducing the intensity
of
shock on the tankers, some of which are prone to explode if suddenly
compacted.
Best regards.
Shankar



At 09:01 AM 11/18/98 +0530, you wrote:
>> ...I recall that most of the "Not to Be Loose Shunted" wagons....
>
>Unfortunate blank in my railway knowledge: can this term be
>explained clearly by anyone ? Does it mean that the coupler has
>to be engaged, that it has to be tightened, or is it that the
>brake connection is also to be made during shunting ? Considering
>that the idea is probably to reduce shock to cargo, tightened
>couplings would seem to be the meaning....
>
>Years back, some passenger trains in Gujarat used to have a
>couple of milk tank wagons attached to the front of the
>rake (the Gujarat Mail was one such). These wagons appeared
>to be designed for attachment to passenger trains, being
>equipped with the same design of bogies (trucks). Is this
>practice still being carried out ?
>
>
>--
>Jayant S
>--
>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: "Not to be Loose Shunted"

Date: 18 Nov 1998 10:55:25 -0500


Hello,
"Loose shunting" is where a car is left to roll under its own momentum
till
it meets the rest of the train with a big bang.
Used in combination with hump shunting, the concept held good in those
good
old days of breakbulk wagon operation.
Here, a train made up of cars bound for various destinations is pulled
by a
shunting engine for a certain distance within the yard.
Each car has an individual destination tag. A shunting staff will read
the
tag and uncouple the car,i.e. undo the coupling and then signal to the
driver.
The driver then pushes the train up a small hump in the yard with some
force.The uncoupled car also gets pushed along.
On the other side of the hump is a series of lines, where trains are
being
made up. Each line is assigned a certain destination.
On reaching the summit of teh hump, the driver brakes suddenly. While
the
rest of the train stops, the uncoupled car rolls on, down the slope,
gathering momentum. The pointsman then works the points and guides the
car
to the respective line, where the car met the rest of the train with a
deafening thud.

Problem one: the strain of the coupling when the engine brakes suddenly.

Problem two: Its OK with the modern CBC (buck eye) couplers which are
uncoupled with a simple yank on teh lever, and which couple
automatically on
impact. But in those days of screw couplings, the shunting master had to
wait
at the last car, wait for the impact, then get under the car and start
coupling real fast. Some brave souls simply stood on looking upon a
massive
freight car bearing upon them, brave the bang, then coolly couple on. An
error in judgmement, and--So danger to life and limb of the staff.
Problem three: Damage to cars themselves and the contents of teh cars.
Problem four: Unwary passers by coming under the unguarded cars running
at
speed. And so on and so forth.
The explosion hazard if petroleum cars are shunted by these primitive
methods can well be imagined.
So with petroleum cars, EASY DOES IT! Thats what 'Not to be loose
shunted"
means.
Incidentally, care is to be taken even after the train is made up. I do
not
know about US railroads,but there is a practice on the IR (and also in
the
UK: I've seen pictures of it) of coupling one or two empty freight
wagons on
either end of the tanker train. i.e. the tanker train will have two
empty
freight cars directly behind teh engine and immediately before the guard
car.(caboose).
Commonly known as BARRIER CARS, these empties are meant to absorb some
of
the impact in the event of a collision at speed, reducing the intensity
of
shock on the tankers, some of which are prone to explode if suddenly
compacted.
Best regards.
Shankar



At 09:01 AM 11/18/98 +0530, you wrote:
>> ...I recall that most of the "Not to Be Loose Shunted" wagons....
>
>Unfortunate blank in my railway knowledge: can this term be
>explained clearly by anyone ? Does it mean that the coupler has
>to be engaged, that it has to be tightened, or is it that the
>brake connection is also to be made during shunting ? Considering
>that the idea is probably to reduce shock to cargo, tightened
>couplings would seem to be the meaning....
>
>Years back, some passenger trains in Gujarat used to have a
>couple of milk tank wagons attached to the front of the
>rake (the Gujarat Mail was one such). These wagons appeared
>to be designed for attachment to passenger trains, being
>equipped with the same design of bogies (trucks). Is this
>practice still being carried out ?
>
>
>--
>Jayant S
>--
>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Through service

Date: 18 Nov 1998 11:02:07 -0500


At 01:03 PM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I wonder if anyone recalls that there used to be a Bombay-Daund-Manmad
>passenger
>which seems to have disappeared.
>
>

INDEED.
AND PRIOR TO INTRODUCTION OF THE JHELUM EXPRESS IN 1978, THERE USED TO
BE
TWO CARS FROM POONA TO NEW DELHI WHICH WERE ATTACHED TO THE
BOMBAY-DAUND-MANMAD PASSENGER.
LEAVING POONA AROUND 1520, THE TWO CARS USED TO GO UPTO MANMAD WHERE
THEY
WERE MADE TO WAIT A COUPLE OF HOURS BEFORE BEING ATTACHED TO THE
FRIGHTFULLY SLOW DADAR-AMRITSAR EXPRESS.
HENCE, POONA TO DELHI USED TO TAKE TWO NIGHTS, WITH THE FIRST PART OF
THE
JOURNEY ON A SLOW PASSENGER.
PRIOR TO DISAPPEARANCE, THE TRAIN WAS RUNNING FOR A YEAR OR TWO AS TEH
POONA-DAUND-MANMAD PASSENGER.
SOMEHOW, IT USED TO BE ALWAYS FULL!
BEST REGARDS.
SHANKAR


>Anand
>
>Internet: anand@watson.email
>External tel: (914) 784 7054
>Notes: Rangachari Anand/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
>Tie-line: 863 7054
>
>
>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: "Not to be Loose Shunted"

Date: 18 Nov 1998 11:04:59 -0500


Hello,
Other impressive yards are Itarsi, Babina (near Bhopal), good old Daund,
and
nowadays, even Lonavla.
Andal near Howrah is supposed to be very impressive as well.
Best regards.
Shankar

At 11:23 PM 11/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi Apurva and all!
>MGS is defi the most impressive and grand yard and also the biggest on
IR,
>but Barauni and BHusawal cant be put in second place behind MGS...the
SER
>yards of Bhilai, Raourkela, etc are mamoth themselves, much bigger then
>Bhusawal!! I would put TKD yard after MGS, followed immediately by the
>steel plant serving yards on SER!!
>Closer home, the biggest yard in Bombay is KYN on CR and on the WR its
a
>toss between BRC and SBI....in Gujarat!
>Pune and Katni are two other yards that I can think of that are big on
>CR...maybe we should go region wise on yards...a good topic...I can
come
>up with WR's list of yards if anyone is interested!
>Regards,
>Bharat Vohra
>
>

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Panvel and Navi Mumbai

Date: 18 Nov 1998 11:46:59 -0500


Hi Folks,

I recently received my CR, WR and SCR TTs and CR suburban TT, thanks
to
the efforts of Apurva. Here are my observations about the connections
for
Navi Mumbai (Vashi-Panvel) through KR trains. The rerouting of the TVC
Raj
and the Mangala Lakshadweep Exp. is definitely a boon for Navi Mumbai
folks.
As Apurva mentioned, a local arrives at/departs from Panvel every hour.
Let's take the TVC Raj as an example. A person wishing to travel to
Delhi
from, say, Vashi can catch a local at 6.50 pm to reach Panvel at 7.25 pm
and
then board the Raj. at 7.40 pm. If this is too close, he/she can take
the
earlier local. There is a quota of 6 AC 3-tier berths at Panvel for
Nizamuddin. Otherwise, one would have to go to either Dadar or Mumbai
Central (no direct locals) or travel for an hour and 20 mts. to get to
Mumbai CST. In fact, Vashi residents can even catch the TVC bound Raj
-
quota of 10 AC 3-tier berths and 5 AC 2-tier berths at Panvel. There is
a
local that starts from Vashi at 4.35 am to reach Panvel at 5.10 pm -
plenty
of time to catch the Raj. at 5.47 pm. The Mangala Exp. gives Navi
Mumbai
folks a daily connection to Delhi/Ernakulam with convenient times at
Panvel.


The KR section is interesting. There are only 58 stations between
Roha
and Mangalore which is quite low for a distance of 760 kms.
I am sure more stations will spring up later. Only Ratnagiri and
Madgaon
stand out from the rest since all trains stop here. Khed and Karwar
have
three trains ignoring each of them whereas Udupi is skipped by two
trains.
Kankanadi is skipped by two Mangalore bound trains - Matsyagandha and
Madgaon-Mangalore Pass. One gets the impression that 20 other halts
have
been randomly distributed among the exp. trains so that each of them has
atleast one express train to use. For example, Khed serves as a halt
for
Rajkot-TVC, Mumbai-Madgaon and Matsyagandha whereas Chiplun is a halt
for
Gandhidham-Nagercoil, Mumbai-Madgaon, Matsyagandha and Netravati.
Sawantwadi is a halt for the Gandhidham-Nagercoil and Rajdhani Exp.
only.


Vijay

From: GlynThomas <>

Subject: Re: Nilgiri express

Date: 18 Nov 1998 13:17:10 -0500


David,
the Nilgiri express does still run, but check the archive of this group
for a
recent discussion on plans to replace the steam locos with diesel or
electrics. (I personally suspect that electrifying the line would be too
expensive).

Mr. Bhandari's book, 'Exotic Indian Mountain Railways' has a lengthy
chapter
on the line. The book is available from the railway museum in Delhi (but
probably not by post), and occasionally from the BOHRT in the UK.

On Video, the line featured on the original 'Great Railway Journey' trip
to
India, and was also used for 'A Passage to India'. I don't know whether
it has
been filmed for any enthusiast's videos.

Glyn

From: Vdate <>

Subject: Re: Through service

Date: 18 Nov 1998 14:52:55 -0500


Pune-Mumbai night passenger is my favorite as it saves a day of daylight
hours
for me. Something very valuable while visiting India. Other favorite
night
trains/ through coaches are JP-JU , and between Ajmer and JU. I have
also
traveled on a night train from KanyaKumari to Chennai; but that was an
express.

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Bhowani Junction

Date: 18 Nov 1998 16:07:39 -0500


Hi Kartik and all,
Re Bhowani Junction, I pondered long and hard over what it was meant
to
represent, and finally came to the conclusion it was based pretty
closely on
Jhansi. Bhowani appears in other Masters novels, also in situations
analogous to Jhansi.
Also by the way, there was a so-so film made of it back in the
1960s.
They used Lahore station for Bhowani; the famous peeing scene was shot
at
Platform 1. There was some quite good footage of HGS 2-8-0s in typical
North
Indian/Pak scenery (dry, with prickle trees!) but in the scene where
Victoria Jones runs away on the train, they had made up the length with
some
very poor footage shot on BR, complete with third rail and
blood-and-custard
cariages on passing trains. I know filmies think no-one ever notices
technical details, but this was a worse insult than usual!
The book is much better than the film, and I value it for the quite
sensitive depiction of the various stresses and strains in the different
"railway" communities. Recommended, I agree.
Happy perusing
Ken Walker


-----Original Message-----
From: Kartik Pashupati <kpashupa@mailer.email
To: Indian Railway Fan Club Association <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, 18 November 1998 7:56
Subject: Bhowani Junction


>Folks:
>
>I am in the process of reading "Bhowani Junction" by John Masters.
>
>I haven't seen the movie, but this extremely well-written novel should
be
>required reading for railfans of all liveries. I highly recommend it.
>
>There is an entire chapter describing a footplate journey in a steam
>locomotive between Bhowani and Gondwara (both of which I presume are
>fictional). At the risk of violating copyright laws, I am tempted to
post
>the entire chapter on this list.
>
>Kartik.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
--
>"Only Robinson Crusoe had everything done by Friday."
>
>Kartik Pashupati, Ph.D. (kpashupa@mailer.email
>
>Florida State University
>Department of Communication
>356 Diffenbaugh Building
>Tallahassee FL 32306-2064
>Phone: 850-644-1809; Fax: 850-644-8642
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
--
>Website: <A HREF="http://mailer.fsu.edu/~kpashupa">http://mailer.fsu.edu/~kpashupa</A>
>
>
>

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