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From: Vivek Prakash <>

Subject: Re: NRM Update

Date: 10 Nov 1998 11:31:28 -0500


>The Mumbai locals are soon coming with pneumatic suspension to cope
>with different loads at different times. I believe the new coach from
>RCF Kapurthala IRY/IR20 (the one with corrugated sides) has pneumatic
>suspension. The Shan e Punjab Exp is already using these coaches.It
>would be nice to have a travelogue (Down as well as Up) from you like
>the one from Porus some time back.
>
>Apurva

Question: what corrugated sides?
Vivek

From: Don Dickens <>

Subject: State of the NRM

Date: 10 Nov 1998 16:28:03 -0500


Harsh and Others,
Thanks, Harsh, for setting out in print the lamentable situation
regarding Finances and Motivation at the NRM.

If your message being in all capital letters (usually called being
flamed) meant that you were disturbed by what I said or by the situation
at NRM then so be it. Quite often it is necessary to create a good bit
of heat before any light begins to shine.

Your comments about complainers who do nothing other than complain
reminds me of the saying "It is better to light one little candle than
to curse the darkness". I've lit my candle. My web pages about the
Patiala State Monorail Tramway have publicized the museum to over 600
people, mostly from other parts of the world and I was dealing with a
very obscure and less than popular topic.

A word about other museums. The "nose in the air', "can't be bothered"
attitude is not just the result of low funding. The mighty Smithsonian
did it to me but if I had really cared I could have zapped a letter to
my congressman and gotten some action. Elected officials love helping
voters if approached properly. Can this be done in India?

Thank You for your appreciation of Mike Satow. He really must have had
the right contacts, anyway he sure had the right ideas. I'm not English
but they sure do know how to conserve history.

Someone said "When all is said and done. much more will be said than
done" Does this mean that those who care need to get a whole huge amount
said so that something gets done?

With a budget so pitiful, a fund raiser should sound like rain from
heaven but.... could those funds be accounted for?

Let's keep this thread going, nothing is impossible
Don Dickens

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: models: Anne/Apurva

Date: 10 Nov 1998 18:13:57 -0500


>......(for a WDM3 a FM trainmaster would be a good choice)....
This is a good idea. I saw a picture of the Trainmaster: the
suspension is almost identical. I suppose the Alco PA would
also be a good starter, but I would personally HATE to get rid
of the PA carbody.
> Here this kind of small production is usually done in epoxy resin.
It's
> again a case of what's locally available.
Some sort of Araldite dies, perhaps ?
> Rail you'll have to import. You can use the british system for ties -
> they cut strips off of electronic printed circuit board
> for ties and solder the rails to them.
> so you don't short out the rails.
HO track is available in Delhi....typically about Rs 500 for a
turnout, less for sectional track. Hornby equipment is expensive:
a single passenger car goes for about Rs1300/-. A Castle class GWR
loco goes for as much as 6000/-.........

I just got into aeromodelling. At about 500/- for a decent Guillow
balsa kit, it is significantly cheaper !

Scratchbuilding seems to be by far the best option. Would it be possible

to use aluminium sheet instead of brass ?

--
Jayant S
--

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Exhibition on Wheels!!

Date: 10 Nov 1998 18:25:26 -0500



Hi! Everyone on the list,

One look at today's TOI , Mumbai edition. And a advt. placed by Western
Railway
-- about this exhibition. Here is the route it is to take in next few
days.
Enroute you can visit , if anyone of you reside nearby. Yesterday it was
in
Mumbai CST, but only for a day & as you can expect from CR, without
prior
notice.


The Exhibition moves thus---

Mumbai Central 11th Nov

Valsad 12th

Navsari 13th

Surat 14th

Bharuch 15th

Vadodara 16th

Rajkot 17th

Porbandar 18th

Palanpur/Mehasana 19th

Ahmedabad 21st

Anand/Nadiad 22nd

Dohad 23rd

Ratlam 24th

Indore 25th

Ujjain 26th

Kota 27th

Jaipur 29th

Ajmer 30th

Marwar 1st Dec.


So, Enjoy .

Bye

Shrinivas

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: State of the NRM: Don

Date: 10 Nov 1998 18:36:10 -0500


> My web pages about the Patiala State Monorail Tramway have
> publicized the museum to over 600 people, mostly from other
> parts of the world and I was dealing with a very obscure and
> less than popular topic.
I have been keeping track of your page, and I think it is a
commendable piece of work. Just for the record, I regard the
working preservation of the PSM stock at the NRM as one of
its real successes, along with the Fairy Queen.
> A word about other museums. The "nose in the air', "can't be bothered"
> attitude is not just the result of low funding.
Quite true. I estimate that the NRM spent over Rs 100,000/-
on somewhat irrelevant Hornby layouts. That sort of money could
have really been used properly somewhere else.
> Someone said "When all is said and done. much more will be said than
> done" Does this mean that those who care need to get a whole huge
amount
> said so that something gets done?
I think it is more a need to change attitudes at the NRM, and this
list is probably THE best think-tank in existence to throw up
ideas. Funding is actually the lesser problem, it is the apathy
surrounding the place that needs to be addressed. They seem to be
making only token efforts at merchandising, which could really
make a difference if done effectively.

I had hoped to interact with the FNRM in Delhi, but was completely
put off by the Museum staff who would not even speak to me. I guess
I will have to write to them from here after all.

--
Jayant S
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Indian Railways Electric Locos - new pictures

Date: 10 Nov 1998 18:40:40 -0500


Shankar wrote:
> Apart from the subject, what I simply ADORE about your pics is the
visual
> richness, thanks to the full-screen large size of the pics.
I second this heartily !
> Just one fervent plea: please, PLEASE re-instate the steamers after a
while.
I second this too. Your Indian steam pictures are priceless, and
I hope you find some space to archive the whole lot somewhere.

Looking forward to more:


--
Jayant S
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Modelling: KJW

Date: 10 Nov 1998 18:54:38 -0500


> I too would like to see some authentic Indian models, and not just
at the
> NRM. It's a shame, too, that some of the existing models, like the
Nilgiri
> rack demo, can't be put back into working order.
I've never seen it working: what's wrong with it ?
>.........but there's a chap in Delhi who models the KSR.
Would it be possible to see his layout ?
> However, I use exact scale track gauges (and wheel standards) giving
me
> 22mm, 13.12mm, and 10mm gauges for BG, MG, and 2ft6in NG respectively.

I saw your NG pictures (great !). Are you modelling BG and MG as well ?
> It seems very likely that there will be kits and bits
> for narrow gauge in 4mm scale soon.
The NRM had space reserved for a layout which is to apparently soon
feature a DHR B-Class loco from Hornby. However, the Hornby (Trongby ?)
dealer in Delhi did not know about this RTR model. Does it exist in
any manufacturer's range ?
> Perhaps an enterprising manufacturer could take it up. With Indian
> labour costs, and modern medium-volume technology, there is a huge
potential
> market, domestic and export. The employment potential is good too: far
more
> jobs than a manganese mine!
I sure hope this happens someday.
> I'll be happy to correspond with anyone engaged in modelling. We have
> an immediate need to build up a store of decent plans and data, both
because
> these things are changing fast, and because of the present lack.
This is definitely a need. I am particularly worried that, with the
departure of steam, we may have already lost precious detail drawings
of steam stock from the design departments. Is there some way to
coerce IR into making them available ?

Also, did Baldwin Works drawings get archived anywhere in the US ?
They would have had information for the WP/WG classes, for which they
built the prototypes.

I may be visiting the NRM in January. If anyone needs detail
photographs of anything for modelling purposes, I can try to get it
done .

Regards:
--
Jayant S
--

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Hugh Hughes' books

Date: 10 Nov 1998 19:06:29 -0500



Just a quick note to let you know that all 4 volumes of Hugh Hughes'
"Indian Locomotives" appear to be currently available. I got my copies
from Midland Counties recently. Someone on this list had said that
the 4th volume was out of print or otherwise unavailable; this does
not seem to be the case any longer. These are excellent books, with
encyclopaedic information on the locomotives used in India until 1990
(serial numbers, lots of photographs).

Earlier I also got a copy of Jal Daboo's book on diesel and electric
locos used by IR. This is also a wonderful book, with lots of
information
on each class of loco, lots of photographs & drawings.

--Satish

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Historical Group / MG couplers

Date: 10 Nov 1998 19:12:47 -0500


> You could count me in for something like this. While I think all
> historically-minded people should cooperate with the NRM and the
regional
> museums, there is plenty of room for a non-official historical body,
and the
> sooner the better, since so much history is being scrapped.
> Ken Walker

> From: Doug Cummings <ihp@istar.email
> >With all the discussion about preservation, has anyone ever thought
of
> >forming an Indian Railroad Historical Association, or Society, or
whatever
> >the Indian equivilant would be, to try and preserve some of the
history of
> >Indian railways, outside of the NRM?
> >
> >You would likely get members from outside of India.

Great idea. This list is probably the best place to start.
Count me in too. What we need is an effort to preserve documents
and drawings. Stock preservation is expensive, and the NRM is best
qualified to handle that. A historical group could also serve
as a repository of informal records, the experiences of older
railway professionals, photographs, stuff like that.

--
Jayant S
--

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: models: Anne/Apurva

Date: 10 Nov 1998 20:14:16 -0500




Jayant S wrote:

> >......(for a WDM3 a FM trainmaster would be a good choice)....
> This is a good idea. I saw a picture of the Trainmaster: the
> suspension is almost identical. I suppose the Alco PA would
> also be a good starter, but I would personally HATE to get rid
> of the PA carbody.

There's a special right now, overstock at the local hobby shop.
. Proto 2000 PA's are going for $64 US if memory
serves. We have a couple of these at the club, and they're extremely
smooth
running.
Only complaint is that the trucks are a bit stiff - they've been known
to
derail on occasion.



>
> > Here this kind of small production is usually done in epoxy resin.
It's
> > again a case of what's locally available.
> Some sort of Araldite dies, perhaps ?

Don't know Araldite - one of you Australians know about this?

>
> > Rail you'll have to import. You can use the british system for ties
-
> > they cut strips off of electronic printed circuit board
> > for ties and solder the rails to them.
> > so you don't short out the rails.
> HO track is available in Delhi....typically about Rs 500 for a
> turnout, less for sectional track.

Well, that's cheaper than here. About $15 - $25 for a turnout.
Last batch of flex track I bought was 6.45 a piece. 8^X


> Hornby equipment is expensive:
> a single passenger car goes for about Rs1300/-. A Castle class GWR
> loco goes for as much as 6000/-.........
>
> I just got into aeromodelling. At about 500/- for a decent Guillow
> balsa kit, it is significantly cheaper !
>
> Scratchbuilding seems to be by far the best option. Would it be
possible
> to use aluminium sheet instead of brass ?

I don't recommend aluminum sheet. You can't solder it, it work hardens,
it's
not
free machining. "Tin" (actually tin coated steel)
is OK, easy to solder, but hard to drill and cut. For the amount you
need,
price should be basicly irrelevant.
Brass is the right thing.

As an alternative, consider plastic. It's not as good a material for
highly
detailed work, but
it's easier for a beginner to get good results with. In the US it's
largely
taken over from brass.


>
>
> --
> Jayant S
> --

If anybody wants to order anything from the US, I owe Harsh for some
pictures, maybe
we can do a deal where you give Harsh his money, I send you the trains,
we
don't have
to deal with changing rupees.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: State of the NRM

Date: 10 Nov 1998 20:20:52 -0500


>
> I had hoped to interact with the FNRM in Delhi, but was completely
> put off by the Museum staff who would not even speak to me. I guess
> I will have to write to them from here after all.
>
> --
> Jayant S
> --

Maybe a clue -
One day I wanted to "get away" and relax somewhere - so I took off
to the
museum and
caught up my diary sitting in the refreshment stand. While I was
sitting
there, a museum employee
(obviously a sahib) walked up and asked me if I was a reporter doing a
story
about the museum.
When I said I wasn't, he instantly lost all interest and walked off.

Annie

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Hugh Hughes' books

Date: 10 Nov 1998 20:24:40 -0500


Just a short message to all those interested in Hughes Books. The
Continental Railway Circle has earlier published books in 3
volumes(different gauges) which deal exclusively in steam and are called
steam locomotives in India. The information contained in, is though
nostalgic but a bit out of date. Sadly these excellent books are now
long
out of print and rarely figure at second hand book dealers in UK. I paid
GBP
15 for each of them but find it quite well worth.

The second set published by TCRC in four volumes is called Indian
locomotives and all books are currently available with the circle. It
deals
with all form of motive power used in the last 145 years on the
sub-continent. The number of locos listed exceed 33,000 !

Are the friends aware that Hugh Hughes passed away last month at
Auckland,NZ
? I was not a part of the club then so forgive me if Iam repeating this
over. He and Mike Satow will continue to inspire me till the last day of
steam on earth.

HARSH


-----Original Message-----
From: S Pai <spai@aya.email
To: Indian Railways List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 7:09 PM
Subject: Hugh Hughes' books


>
>Just a quick note to let you know that all 4 volumes of Hugh Hughes'
>"Indian Locomotives" appear to be currently available. I got my copies
>from Midland Counties recently. Someone on this list had said that
>the 4th volume was out of print or otherwise unavailable; this does
>not seem to be the case any longer. These are excellent books, with
>encyclopaedic information on the locomotives used in India until 1990
>(serial numbers, lots of photographs).
>
>Earlier I also got a copy of Jal Daboo's book on diesel and electric
>locos used by IR. This is also a wonderful book, with lots of
information
>on each class of loco, lots of photographs & drawings.
>
>--Satish
>

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: More Plinthed locos

Date: 10 Nov 1998 20:32:04 -0500


>
> Are there any plates on the loco or have they been swiped ? What about
the
> Matheran loco that you mentioned(and showed me a picture as well when
I
> visited you, if I remember correctly).

Hi Harsh,

The number of the preserved loco at Matheran is 741 and I also tallied
it
with Prof.Bahndari's list of preserved M.L.R.locs.

M.L.R ISR CLASS TYPE MAKER MAKER'S NO REMARKS
No. NO.
___________________________________________________

1. 738 ML 0-6-0T O&K 1766 Preserved & plinthed
previously
at V.T and now in Parel Loco
Shed.

2. 739 ML 0-6-0T O&K 2342 NRM-DELHI

3. 740 ML 0-6-0T O&K 2343 I am sure this locomotive is
preserved somewhere in
England.

4. 741 ML 0-6-0T O&K 1767 Plinthed at Matheran Station.


There is a Western railway N.G. Tank preserved outside the Bombay
Central
station details of which i will be mailing tomorrow.

Regards
Viraf
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: NRM Update

Date: 10 Nov 1998 21:09:19 -0500


HEY NO NO VIRAF,
HECK. YOU'RE MISSING THE ENTIRE
POINT. I
KNOW AND REALISE AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE THAT THE CURRENT COLOUR SCHEME
IS
BAD. BUT WHAT I CAN APPRECIATE ABOUT IT IS THE FACT THAT THEY ARE
GETTING
PAINTED AFTER SO MANY YEARS !

I WILL QUOTE YOU A SMALL EXAMPLE. SHANKAR HAD COMPLAINED ABOUT THE
SILLY
FLOWER PAINTED ON THE BULLET NOSE OF THE WP/P 7200. WITH MY PERSONAL
DEVOTION FOR THE WPs INTACT, I TOOK UPON THIS JOB OF GETTING IT
CORRECTED
TO THE ORIGINAL DAUND SHED STAR DURING THE CURRENT PAINTING. I EVEN
MANAGED
TO GET HOLD OF ONE PICTURE OF THE LOCO WHEN WORKING AT DAUND WHICH I
PASSED
ON TO THE PAINTING CONTRACTOR AND THE SUPERVISOR AND EXPLAINED THEM
PERSONALLY. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT IT TOOK THEM THREE ATTEMPTS TO PAINT
THE
STUFF CORRECTLY WITH PROOF IN THEIR HANDS.

SHANKAR CAN VOUCH FOR HOW MUCH TIME IT HAS TAKEN TO GET IT DONE FINALLY.
IN
FACT IT IS THIS VERY MAIL THROUGH WHICH IAM INFORMING HIM ALSO AS IT WAS
JUST YESTERDAY WHEN I SPENT FIVE HOURS TO GET IT FINALLY DONE IN MY
SUPERVISION. SO I HAVE NO HALLUCINATIONS OF GETTING IT DONE ALL BY
MYSELF.

ANNE HAS OFFERED TO GET THE PSMT PAINTED TO THE ORIGINAL LIVERY(OR
ATLEAST
SOME SENSIBLE COLOUR) WHEN SHE IS HERE. IT IS A MOST WELCOME OFFER AND
IAM
LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

REGARDING PAINTING SCHEMES, THE MAIN SETBACK IS THAT THERE ARE NO
RECORDS OF
THESE WITH THE IR AND ONE HAS TO GO BY PEOPLE'S RECORDS WHICH ARE OFTEN
MISLEADING. THE OLD PICTURES ARE ALL IN B&W AND HENCE NO GOOD. SO HELP
IS
NEEDED FROM ALL TO AUTHENTICATE THE ORIGINAL LIVERIES.

REGARDING HORNBY MODELS AGAIN I WOULD SAY THAT ANYTHING IS GOOD FOR A
BEGINING. YOU MAY BE SURPRISED TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOW BUILDING A HUGE
DHR
MODEL FOR THE MUSEUM APART FROM FEW OTHERS ON INDIAN RAILWAYS. BY THE
WAY
HORNBY's AGENT IS BASED IN JAIPUR AND NOT AT DELHI.

THERE WAS A BIG DEBATE ON WHAT IS THE ORIGINAL LIVERY OF THE DHR B CLASS
TANK LOCOS. TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, FROM THE BEGINING OF THE LINE
TILL
THE FORTIES, THEY WERE PAINTED GREEN, THEN BLACK FOR A SHORT SPAN,
PAINTED
THE FAMOUS CALEDONIAN BLUE SINCE NFR WAS FORMED AND NOW SOME WERE LATELY
PAINTED IN RED AND YELLOW(RAJDHANI SCHEME) TEMPORARILY TO INCREASE THEIR
VISIBILITY FROM THE ROAD. NOW WHICH ONE DO YOU SAY IS THE ORIGINAL
LIVERY ?
TO MY MIND IT IS THE BLUE ONE BECAUSE THE TRAIN HAS BEEN THAT WELL KNOWN
FOR
LAST 20 - 30 YEARS ONLY. AND MOST OF THE COLOUR PICTURES(THOUGH WHICH
THE
TRAIN IS MOSTLY KNOWN) SHOW IT BLUE. THAT OF COURSE IS MY OPINION BUT
OTHERS
MIGHT WELL DIFFER. SO YOU SEE IT IS A VERY CONTENTIOUS ISSUE.

YOUR FEEDBACK IS EAGARLY SOLICITED. AND BELIEVE ME, I NEVER TAKE
ANYTHING
PERSONALLY TO MY HEART.

HARSH VARDHAN



-----Original Message-----
From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <sncf@godrejnet.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: NRM Update


>
>Hey Harsh,
>
>Are you angry because I critisized the livery of the exhibits?
>
>==========================
>Viraf Mulla
>C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
>Borivali (West)
>Mumbai 400103
>Tel: +91-22-8954510
>E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
>==========================
>
>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: NRM Update

Date: 10 Nov 1998 21:31:54 -0500


Dear Madhav and others,


-----Original Message-----
From: Madhav Acharya <madhav_acharya@email.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
Cc: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: NRM Update


>Harsh/Dom,
>
> It would be very beneficial to NRM if they could hold some
>kind of fund raising drive the same way PBS asks people for
>donations - and they end up getting money ! The trouble is
>that most people would enjoy the NRM facilities but would be
>reluctant to pay any more than the entry fee for its upkeep. the entry
>fee is also ridiculous - Rs 10 or something which is 25 cents ! Museums
>are meant to be expensive - if not, then they should be funded heavily
>(like Smithsonian in DC).


Just to correct you a bit, it is not even 10 Rupees but just 5 which is
less
the cost of handouts you can get from the museum. Students, railwaymen,
journalists etc. are susidised further by 50%, sometimes even allowed
free.
In turn some of them wreck the whole place and create heaps of garbage
which
take months to be cleared with only two sweepers in the whole museum.

Mediapersons will write nasty reviews if not attended properly(or
sometimes
even if they are because critisism sells better). More knowledgeable
will
write comments in the visitors book some of which read like -
"It is improper to show the black man attending to the white in the
Prince
of Wales Saloon. I will take this matter to the Parliament if it is not
removed immediately. Better still, you can show the white man serving
the
black"

This knowledgeable visitor was one former member of Parliament. I hope
you
are listening Don.


HARSH

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Historical Group / MG couplers

Date: 10 Nov 1998 22:31:23 -0500


Dear Jayant,
You will find that there is a lot of interest at the NRM in
preserving
documents and drawings, etc, but it is at the level of the Librarians,
not
the management. I heard a rumour a couple of years ago (I'm still hoping
it
was untrue) that RDSO at Lucknow had offered the Museum a large number
of
obsolete drawings, and , on being told they were not wanted, burnt them.
It's this sort of thing we need to forestall.
Now, there are several ways we can do this. I have personally
indicated
to the Librarians (and, on two past occasions, to the Director) my
judgement
of the importance of drawings, etc. I have had some contact (by E-mail!)
with the present Director, by the way, over the DHR World Heritage
application, and he seems rather nicer than his predecessors. I couldn't
distract Lohani from the cricket one day in 1997, and an earlier
Director
(not R.R. Bhandari) obviously didn't give a stuff. I think repetition,
aided
by tact, will help. The more people express concern, the more notice
will be
taken. The Museum does have a chance to become an important and
worthwhile
reseearch centre, but it will need a much better and more extensive
collection.
There is also a fund-raising opportunity. Obsolete diagrams and
diagram
books, drawings for superseded equipment, and much more, could be
reproduced
and made available at the Museum. Many visitors, overseas ones
especially,
would undoubtedly pay realistic prices for memorabilia. In that
connection,
a Museum web page and a credit card facility to eliminate exchange
problems
could multiply revenues significantly.
I have also felt that, with due respect to Michael Satow, there has
been
an over-emphasis on locos, and often unusual ones rather than typical
ones.
But there is little attention paid to stock, signals, and much else.
They
really ought to preserve a CR van before they become extinct, and what
about
one of the early ICF coaches, if one still survives. Surely they are
landmarks, too?
Apart from approaches to the museum people, what we can also do is
try
to build up our own data bases. I havea quite extensive collection,
built up
by trawling through over a century's worth of engineering journals and
annual reports, etc; I also have (courtesy of various helpful Works
Managers
and CMEs) some copies of diagrams for various stock. I plan to do a
book on
IR stock development in due course.
Our India-resident members could certainly help by approaching
their
local Works Managers and CMEs for diagram books, drawings of
obsolete/obsolescent stock, etc. I suspect that talking with the Chief
Draughtsmen at many workshops may also be useful, particularly when it
comes
to understanding and recording design practices and policies. They
tended to
be close to the policy process, and stayed in one place, unlike the
engineers, most of whom were on two-year postings. Don't forget that
drawings are often found. not at regional headquarters, but at the
actual
works: Parel, Matunga, Pratapnagar, Golden Rock, etc. You guys may have
more
luck than a videshi like me, too!
In short, there's a lot we can do ourselves, and I agree strongly
that this discussion group is a good launch pad.
Apropos the MG couplers, the drawings can now be viewed or
downloaded
from my web site at <A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh</A>.
Cheers
Ken Walker





-----Original Message-----
From: Jayant S <sank@telco.email
To: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, 11 November 1998 2:47
Subject: Re: Historical Group / MG couplers


>> You could count me in for something like this. While I think all
>> historically-minded people should cooperate with the NRM and the
regional
>> museums, there is plenty of room for a non-official historical body,
and
the
>> sooner the better, since so much history is being scrapped.
>> Ken Walker
>
>> From: Doug Cummings <ihp@istar.email
>> >With all the discussion about preservation, has anyone ever thought
of
>> >forming an Indian Railroad Historical Association, or Society, or
whatever
>> >the Indian equivilant would be, to try and preserve some of the
history
of
>> >Indian railways, outside of the NRM?
>> >
>> >You would likely get members from outside of India.
>
>Great idea. This list is probably the best place to start.
>Count me in too. What we need is an effort to preserve documents
>and drawings. Stock preservation is expensive, and the NRM is best
>qualified to handle that. A historical group could also serve
>as a repository of informal records, the experiences of older
>railway professionals, photographs, stuff like that.
>
>--
>Jayant S
>--
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: NRM Update

Date: 10 Nov 1998 23:13:21 -0500


The IRY/IR 20 are the new generation air conditioned coaches being made
in
RCF Kapurthala. It features stainless steel body with a corrugated
finish
like the American or Australian coaches. It has better stability at high
speeds, pneumatic suspension, disk brakes and a high capacity air
conditioning system. I could post a picture of this coach with some
features as soon as I could locate the Indian Railway mag which
contained
this article.

Apurva

Vivek Parish wrote:

> >The Mumbai locals are soon coming with pneumatic suspension to cope
> >with different loads at different times. I believe the new coach from
> >RCF Kapurthala IRY/IR20 (the one with corrugated sides) has
pneumatic
> >suspension. The Shan e Punjab Exp is already using these coaches.It
> >would be nice to have a travelogue (Down as well as Up) from you like
> >the one from Porus some time back.
> >
> >Apurva
>
> Question: what corrugated sides?
> Vivek

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: More Plinthed locos

Date: 10 Nov 1998 23:23:09 -0500


Dear Viraf,
Thanks for the bunch of info. But I think we have
got it
wrong somewhere. MLR 738 is at NRM and MLR 741 is certainly at Matheran.
That's for sure. Now that leaves the elusive 739 and 740. Can anyone
throw
anymore light on this subject please.

Also could our friend back at US inform where the B class DHR loco No.
778
is located and possibly send me a picture of it

-----Original Message-----
From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <sncf@godrejnet.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: More Plinthed locos


>>
>> Are there any plates on the loco or have they been swiped ? What
about
the
>> Matheran loco that you mentioned(and showed me a picture as well when
I
>> visited you, if I remember correctly).
>
>Hi Harsh,
>
>The number of the preserved loco at Matheran is 741 and I also tallied
it
>with Prof.Bahndari's list of preserved M.L.R.locs.
>
>M.L.R ISR CLASS TYPE MAKER MAKER'S NO REMARKS
> No. NO.
>___________________________________________________
>
> 1. 738 ML 0-6-0T O&K 1766 Preserved & plinthed
previously
> at
V.T
and now in Parel Loco
>
Shed.
>
> 2. 739 ML 0-6-0T O&K 2342 NRM-DELHI
>
> 3. 740 ML 0-6-0T O&K 2343 I am sure this locomotive is
>
preserved somewhere in England.
>
> 4. 741 ML 0-6-0T O&K 1767 Plinthed at Matheran
Station.
>
>
>There is a Western railway N.G. Tank preserved outside the Bombay
Central
>station details of which i will be mailing tomorrow.


This is news to me. I thought I was well informed about the WR atleast.
Looking forward to hearing as eagarly as ever.


Regards


HARSH

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Modelling: KJW

Date: 10 Nov 1998 23:48:30 -0500


Hi Jayant,
Good stuff! Your bits (snipped) are followed by my comments,
piecemeal.

>> NRM. It's a shame, too, that some of the existing models, like the
Nilgiri
>> rack demo, can't be put back into working order.
>I've never seen it working: what's wrong with it ?

It doesn't work -- hasn't since my first visit in something like 1978. I
don't think they have a mechanic with modelling experience available.

>>.........but there's a chap in Delhi who models the KSR.
>Would it be possible to see his layout ?
He's called Ranjeev Dubey, but I don't have a current address. In 1992
he
was at 4097, Sector D, Vasant Kunj, N.D. 110030. He didn't reply to a
letter
I sent him in 1996 (I think). His layout was in the July 1995 issue of
the
English journal, Continental Modeller. I thought it was a bit rough,
myself.
I can send you photocopies if you would find them useful.

>I saw your NG pictures (great !). Are you modelling BG and MG as well ?

Yes, though those bits are rather embryonic. I have a BG SIR PT 2-6-4T
under
construction (scratch-built in brass and nickel silver) and also an
inspection saloon. For MG, I have the frames cut for an F 0-6-0, but
haven't
made much progress. I plan diseasels in both gauges as well.
>The NRM had space reserved for a layout which is to apparently soon
>feature a DHR B-Class loco from Hornby. However, the Hornby (Trongby ?)
>dealer in Delhi did not know about this RTR model. Does it exist in
>any manufacturer's range ?

I certainly don't know of any RTR DHR "B", nor of any proposal to
introduce
one to the "Hornby" range (there's a lot of commercial history there
which
we won't go into now!) and in any case they don't do any NG stuff. There
was
a white-metal kit available from Langley models in UK for the B; it was
meant to fit an Arnold (continental) 9mm gauge underframe, so you got an
inside-framed loco, not very realistic. The margarine (ghee?vanaspati?)
metal made for a rather clumsy looking model anyway: somehow the
proportions
weren't quite right either. Backwoods Models are currently taking
reservations for a DHR Pacific kit, 4mm scale on 9mm? gauge, in etched
brass, and very sophisticated (they do lovely kits) and are threatening
a B
class in the future, also in etched brass. There have also been rumours
of a
ZB, but I didn't wait! I have read of plans to produce other Indian
models,
notably DHR coaches and possibly other lines as well. So far, interest
is
limited to narrow-gauge. There is also an Australian manufacturer
interested; he does mouldings in polyurethane, which is cheaper than
etched
brass and very common here. He recently did some London Transport car
bodies
for me, from my own masters, and they came out very well.
>> Perhaps an enterprising manufacturer could take it up. With Indian
>> labour costs, and modern medium-volume technology, there is a huge
potential
>> market, domestic and export. The employment potential is good too:
far
more
>> jobs than a manganese mine!
>I sure hope this happens someday.
The sooner the better, in my view! I think the Indian market is big
enough
to support injection moulding (always a problem here in Australia, with
tiny
sales) and "water-testing" using precursor kits and bits made in (say)
polyurethane or polyester would certainly be possible.
>This is definitely a need. I am particularly worried that, with the
>departure of steam, we may have already lost precious detail drawings
>of steam stock from the design departments. Is there some way to
>coerce IR into making them available ?
You probably don't need to coerce all that much -- more like wheedling.
(See
my message about the NRM). Don't bother with Rail Bhavan -- go and see
your
local works, etc. If there's something you need urgently, I may be able
to
help.
>Also, did Baldwin Works drawings get archived anywhere in the US ?
>They would have had information for the WP/WG classes, for which they
>built the prototypes.
I believe the Baldwin drawings went into private hands, though many of
the
drawings for US locos later became available -- for a price. Why not
approach Chittaranjan? If you're in Delhi, try NR at Baroda house --
they
were very helpful to me in early 1997. Don't mess about -- go and see
the
CME! Also, many early WGs were built by North British, and the
University of
Glasgow archives have those drawings. Be sure you're sitting down when
you
get the quote, though!
Re Annie's correspondence with you and Apurva: Araldite is CIBA's
brand
of expoxy resin, Annie. I wouldn't use it for moulds unless you're
planning
low-volume injection moulding, and then you'd have to source a suitable
filled resin. For low-volume production runs of things what most
modellers
and manufacturers are using here is polyester or (better) polyurethane
in
room-temperature-vulcanising (RTV) silicone rubber moulds. The RTV is
expensive but will generally do a couple of dozen mouldings in
polyurethane
and even more in polyester. You make a master in styrene or some other
material, pour the RTV, and them moiuld away. It's a bit more complex
than
that, but not technically difficult. Don't use epoxy: it is britlle and
rips
the shit out of the moulds.
In Brisbane, I don't use tinplate (steel) at all, because, although
I
can get it for nothing (from tin cans, cut open and flattened) it tends
to
rust in our humid atmosphere. Brass is more expensive, but not really
costly
in the small amounts we use; better still is nickel silver, which is
white
coloured and hence looks more like steel. You only need metal for locos
though, and mostly steam locos at that. Use solder for assembly,
jewellers'
(piercing) saw for cutting, and files for cleaning up. Brass telescope
tube
is good for boilers if you can find it.
But for rollingstock, try polystyrene sheet. I don't agree with
Anne
about it not taking as much detail: it will, and very crisp, too, I use
it
for making masters.The best stuff has a small amount of rubber and other
additives, which stop it going hard and crumbly after a few years; ABS
is
also suitable. Both can be glued with Methyl-ethyl-ketone (MEK), which
is
cheap, but always use it in a well ventilated place (make sure there is
a
stream of air actually going past) and NEVER smoke while using it.
Styrene
cuts easily and VERY cleanly, can be drilled and tapped, filed, routed,
and
sawn. The cheapest and best cutters are scalpels, from your local
medical
supply store, and far cheaper than modellers' knives (try No. 11 and No
15
blades). It will take most paint finishes, such as acrylics, enamels,
etc,
though beware of celluloses and the American Floquil paints, which will
craze the surface.
I'd suggest bodging an Indian diesel body, using a lookalike
commercial
product, as a first step. It's always encouraging to get something
running,
even it is as rough as bags. Later you can do the sophisticated
down-to-the-last-rivet models, as time permits.
Do seriously consider 3mm scale: your 5ft6in gauge models will then
look right! For thing like wheels, not from Hornby, you can get stuff
from
Britain: there are a couple of very good mail-order firms there. If you
have
a credit card, they can just bill you, it saves enormous amounts of
trouble
with bank drafts, exchange fees, etc.
Hope all this helps
Ken Walker

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: More Plinthed locos

Date: 10 Nov 1998 23:53:06 -0500


Just a query:
There is a somewhat gaudily painted DHR B-Class loco
plinthed outside Rail Bhavan, Delhi. Does anyone know
the number on this loco?
--
Jayant S
--

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