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From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Help please

Date: 06 Nov 1998 11:49:01 -0500


Hi Vaibhav,

You may want to check out the CMC India web site
(<A HREF="http://cmchome.cmcltd.com)">http://cmchome.cmcltd.com)</A>
for information and contacts about the railways' computerization system.
If
you are located in the US, they also have a US subsidiary, BRI, which
might
be able to help you locate what/who you need. (Try <A HREF="http://www.bri.com">http://www.bri.com</A>
and
look at contact information).

Hope this helps,
Shanku

P.S. You only need to send mail to irfca@cs.email to get mail to the
mailing list. irfca-request@cs.email is for membership updates only.


-----Original Message-----
From: Vaibhav Galriya [mailto:vgalriya@hotmail.email
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 6:17 PM
To: irfca@cs.email irfca-request@cs.email
Subject: Help please


Dear friends,
It is really nice to be a part of such a vast club.
I'm in dire need of your help.I'm working on a paper on "Use
of Information Technology in Indian Railways".Can you help me in this
regard?
Any information relating to the following will be of great help:
1)Passenger Reservation System of Railways
2)Projects on which "Centre for Railway Information
Systems,Lucknow"(CRIS) is working.If you can give me email ID of
somebody working in CRIS,that would be of great help.
3)Frieght Operation Information System(FOIS) on which railway is
presently workin.
4)Anything else

With thanks and a hope for lots of responses.

Vaibhav


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re: Five foot six inch gauge

Date: 06 Nov 1998 12:33:45 -0500


I stand corrected on the Australian wide gauge. My deepest apolgies to
my
Irish ancestors.

The Spanish and Portuguese tracks were originally six Castillian feet
apart,
or 1676 millimetres, not 1678 mm. I understand that British engineers
were not
involved with this choice, which was apparently coincidental !

The military railways built in 1857 during the Crimean war to supply the
French and British besiegers of Sevastopol were also 5' 6" gauge. Some
of this
equipment was
supposedly re-sold to Argentina, which is the origin of the wide gauge
in that
country.

regards

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Tidbits from IR - 1966-67

Date: 06 Nov 1998 12:38:27 -0500


More stuff...

April 1966 (annual report issue)
---------------------------------------------
-Taj. Exp. is running at 105 kmph. max. from Oct. 1, 1965 [with a steam
loco.]

- 21 Dn/22 Up deluxe/southern exp. trains [predecessor of the GT exp.?]
are
being run with diesel engines from April 1, 1966 between New Delhi and
Madras. Reduction is journey time - 3 hrs. 50 mts. from New Delhi to
Madras
and 4 hrs. 30 mts. on the return journey [that's significant speedup]

-Diva-Panvel line opened to traffic in Dec. 1964.

-Work on the 11.27 km Ghatkopar-Thana arterial siding is advanced stage
of
completion

-First phase of Igatpuri-Bhusaval electrification (Igatpuri-Nandgaon) to
be
completed by Dec. 1966

-First long-distance train in ER to be by hauled by AC elec. loco. was
the
Asansol-Bareilly passenger - in June 1965. As of April 1966, entire 705
km.
stretch between Howrah - Mughalsarai via Grand Chord has been brought
under
AC. Howrah-Bandel is still DC.

-Howrah-Madras Mail is the first train to be dieselised in SER. Photo
shows
the train headed by a WDM1 at Howrah.

-Diesel traction for Brindavan Exp. introduced around that time.

-Flying Ranee becomes the fastest medium-distance train in the country
doing
the 263-km. between Bombay Central and Surat is a little under 4 hours.
[any
idea about its halts at that time? train has actually been slowed down
despite electric traction]

May 1966
--------------
-Newly designed buffet car and a 3rd class chair car has been introduced
for
the first time in the Howrah-Dhanbad Coalfield exp.

-New Deccan Queen rake consists of seven 1st class coaches, one buffet
car,
two 3rd class cars and two baggage-cum-3rd class cars. The train would
be
equipped with two indigenously made 50 kVA alternator sets, one mounted
in
each of the baggage-cum-3rd class cars. The alternator will be driven
by
automobile-type diesel engines. All coaches will be provided with
fluroscent lighting.
Standard 400 volts 3-phase 50 cycles AC supply will be taken from one
end of
the train to the other in two feeders running on both the sides of the
train
[were the thick cables hanging between two coaches external
manifestations
of these?] and between coaches, interlocked three-core couplers [what
are
these?] will be provided. In every coach, the two feeders come to a
common
control cubicle where a transformer steps down the 400 volts AC to 110 V
for
interior use in lights and fans [hopefully, this would add to a recent
discussion of power distribution in trains]

Oct. 1966
--------------
-From Oct. 2, the South Central Rly. came to exist. This comprises the
Secunderabad and Sholapur divisions of CR and the Vijayawada and Hubli
divisions of SR with a few marginal adjustments. [looks like Solapur
division was handed back to CR]

June 1967
---------------
-Second class sleeper coaches introduced on 8 trains: GT Exp.,
Howrah-Bombay Mail via Nagpur, Frontier Mail, Kalka-Howrah Mail,
Howrah-Madras Mail, Bombay-Madras Exp., Delhi-Lucknow Mail, Delhi-Howrah
Exp. One half of the sleeper coach is for sitting only - 32 passengers;
other half can sit 30 by day and provide sleeping accomodation for 22 by
night.

July 1967
--------------
-On July 8, first diesel with Indian equipment rolled out of DLW,
Varanasi.

-Photograph of the month shows the dieselised Frontier Mail over the
Dara
Pass with its cream-brown rake. One can easily spot the RMS van.

Dec. 1967
--------------
-Conversion of 3000 volts DC to 25 kV AC around the Calcutta area
[Howrah-Burdwan main line section and Tarakeswar branch] began on March
13,
1962 and ended on Aug. 20, 1967.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Hot news/Mystery Steam Loco

Date: 06 Nov 1998 13:09:22 -0500


Hello,
Oops, sorry, my mistake.
The L-2 which reached the NRM under her own steam is not a decapod, but
a
2-8-4T. She was built in 1907 by North British, and worked on the GIP
initially, before being sold to Hindalco.
A decapod is a steam engine with ten driving wheels. A 0-10-0 (sometimes
even
2-10-0 is so called) is a decapod.
This is a typically British idiosyncacy of naming wheel arrangements.
Here
are a few examples of named wheel arrangements:

4-4-0: American
2-6-0: Mogul
2-6-2: Prairie
2-8-2: Mikado (e.g. our WG)
2-8-0: Consolidation (0-8-0 are also so called)
2-10-0:Decapod (also 0-10-0)
4-6-2: Pacific (e.g. our WP)
4-4-2: Atlantic
4-8-2: Mountain
4-8-8-4: Big Boy etc.etc.

As per the European plan, the number of AXLES is considered instead of
the
number of wheels, and the hyphen is dropped. Hence 4-6-2 would be a 231
in
Europe, a 2-8-2 a 141, a Decapod a 050 etc.

I used to follow all this very closely in my younger days, but nowadays
concentrate on IR only. Probably living away from the mother country
kindles
a little extra patriotiosm!

Best regards.

Shankar





At 09:26 PM 11/6/98 +0530, you wrote:
>>
>> The engine which reached the NRM under her own steam was the
heavyweight
>> Decapod L-2 from Hindalco, which entered the museum under her own
steam.
>
>What is a decapod and can we have a picture please ?
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Suri transmission/ indigenous technology

Date: 06 Nov 1998 13:09:23 -0500


Hello,
I have in my hand the book "Indian Railways" by M.A.Rao, which I picked
up
somewhere in the late early 80s, and which has now become a trifle dog
eared.

There is a bit in here about the Suri transmission,which went over my
head
by and large, as I'm not a technical man, and the explanation is heavy
engineering
high-fundaa.

Anyway, the long and short of it is thus:

In a diesel locomotive, the power generated by the diesel engine is
transmitted to the wheels either mechanically (diesel-mechanical),
hydraulically (diesel-hydraulic) or electrically (diesel-electric).

A lot of energy is lost in this transmission at the input shaft due to
conversion of the mechanical energy into electrical/hydraulic/static
energy.

A further loss of energy occurs when this energy is converted back into
mechanical energy at the output shaft.

(I quote):"these losses at both conversions are inherent and inescapable
unless the input and output shafts are mechanically and directly brought
together by means of a rigid coupling. Energy is then transmitted from
the
input to output shaft with hardly any losses, resulting in high
efficiency
and a substantial saving in fuel.

This is the basis of the Suri transmission, which consists of a minimum
of
two circuits: a convertor coupling and a fluid mechanical coupling,
arranged
in parallel. The convertor coupling covers the first 2/3 of the vehicle
speed, with the fluid-mech. taking care of the remaning 1/3.

The construction is simple, robust, low in weight and proce. Manual
control
over circuit changeover is provided, enabling good drivers to effect
maximum
amount of saving in fuel. (unquote)

NOW DON'T ASK ME WHAT ALL THAT MEANS: I'M NOT A TECHNICAL MAN, SO I DO
NOT
KNOW. LAYMAN EXPLANATIONS ARE WELCOME.

The Suri transmission is revolutionarily simple in concept and has been
hailed by specialists is diesel loco design and mfr.all over the world
as a
major contribution to diesel technology.

This system was propounded in 1956 by a young mech. engineer with the
IR,
M.M.Suri, who has introduced a completely new trend in diesel
locomotion.
and so on.

Thats all I can tell. i do not know about any other indian contributions
to
the world railway scenario, except of IR providing technical and
operational support to railways in Nepal, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Iraq,
Zimbabwe,KenyaTanzania etc.

Best regards.
Shankar





At 12:28 PM 11/6/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Railfans!
>
>In the 1970s (and even early 80s), when people bemoaned the
unwillingness
>of the Indian bureaucracy to absorb indigenous developments in
technology,
>one would often hear the story of MM Suri, who indigenously developed
some
>kind of transmission for (diesel-electric?) locomotives, but was forced
to
>market it overseas.
>
>This raises the following questions. I would prefer non-technical
answers:
>
>1. What exactly is the Suri transmission all about? How much of a
>breakthrough
> was it?
>
>2. When was it developed? Is it still in use in some form?
>
>3. Which "foreign" company ultimately purchased the patent? Is it
true that
> IR ultimately had to license it back at a cost substantially
higher
>than what
> initial adoption might have cost?
>
>4. Given that most innovations in locomotive design still come from
Europe,
> the US and Japan, are there instances of technology developed in
India
>that
> has successfully been exported to other countries?
>
>Kartik.
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>"This message brought to you on 100 percent recycled electrons"
>
>Kartik Pashupati, Ph.D. (kpashupa@mailer.email
>Florida State University, Department of Communication
>356 Diffenbaugh Building, Tallahassee FL 32306-1531
>Ph: 850-644-1809; Fax: 850-644-8642
>
>
>

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Wheel arrangements (was Hot news/Mystery Steam Loco)

Date: 06 Nov 1998 14:03:12 -0500


For anyone interested, here's a bigger list, courtesy of a site on the
web.
Note that there are sometimes two or more names for a configuration.

0-4-0 Switcher
0-6-0 Six-wheel switcher
0-8-0 Eight-wheel switcher
0-10-0 Ten-wheel switcher
2-4-2 Columbia
2-6-0 Mogul
2-6-2 Prairie
2-6-6-2 Sierra
2-6-6-6 Allegheny
2-8-0 Consolidation
2-8-2 Mikado
2-8-4 Berkshire
2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
2-10-0 Decapod
2-10-2 Sante Fe
2-20-20-2 Virginian < good GOD! This isn't a locomotive, it's a
conveyor belt! >
2-10-4 Texas
4-4-0 American
4-4-2 Atlantic
4-6-0 Ten-wheeler
4-6-2 Pacific
4-6-4 Hudson (Baltic)
4-6-6-4 Challenger
4-8-0 Twelve Wheeler or Mastodon
4-8-2 Mountain
4-8-4 Northern, Niagara (NYC), Greenbrier
4-8-8-2 Cab Forward
4-8-8-4 Big Boy
4-10-2 Overland, Southern Pacific
4-12-2 Union Pacific

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: F CLASS LOCO NO. 724

Date: 06 Nov 1998 21:22:26 -0500


APURVA
               Doug may be the only one who has raised doubts about F 724 being a Nasmyth Wilson(NW) product, but you know what - he is dead right !
 
F Class was originally a product of NW drawing board and they produced 10 locos between 1926-29 which were numbered 19,20,21,22,23,29,30,36,37,38 by the Barsi Light Railway(BLR). They were later renumbered by CR in 1957-58  as 712-721.
 
After NW went out of business in 1938, BLR ordered 3 more engines of the same class from Hunslet Engine Co. Ltd., Leeds(HE) in 1949. Previously numbered 41,42,43 by BLR they were allotted new numbers  722-724 by CR. All the F class locos were originally working for the BLR and were based at Kuruduwadi.
 
It is now the identity of the loco standing at IRICEN/DRM complex that is in question. All that the information board placed  next to the loco says is balderdash because if it is 724, it is not NW and if it is a NW built in 1921, it is not 724. The origin of the name `Shakuntala' given to the loco is also not clear. This is what also makes me hughly interested in the other F class locos that you mentioned. There are apparently no differences between the locos built by these two manufacturers but a closer examination would reveal better.  However missing and stolen plates from the locomotives might just ensure that true identity of these locos remains a long last mystery.
 
HARSH
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Cummings < ihp@istar.email <mailto:ihp@istar.email
To: Apurva Bahadur < iti@giaspn01.email <mailto:iti@giaspn01.email
Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur < iti@giaspn01.email <mailto:iti@giaspn01.email
To: Doug Cummings < ihp@istar.email <mailto:ihp@istar.email
Cc: IRFCA@cs.email <mailto:IRFCA@cs.email < IRFCA@cs.email <mailto:IRFCA@cs.email
Date: Saturday, October 24, 1998 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal


 

 When I went to enter the note that IR 724 was on display at Pune in my data base I could not find it under Nasmyth Wilson as the builder. This locomotive was actually built by Hunslet Engine Co. in 1949, serial 3669. Doug Cummings,
email: ihp@iStar.email <mailto:ihp@iStar.email
fax (604) 444-3507

 Doug,

Can you tell me where the maker's plates are ? I can look it up in the loco itself, if they are still around and confirm its origins. I had borrowed a book from British Council Library in Pune called 'Relics of the Raj' and I always believed that this cute profile is hallmark of Nasmyth Wilson design studio. The loco sports a disproportionately large steam dome and a mid sized chimney.  I really like tiny NG steam locos with full tenders (not tank locos) pretending to be fully grown up locos. One picture from that book which is burnt in my mind is a Nasmyth Barsi Light Railway loco waiting on a bridge at Pangri to bank the next train up the Ramling ghat.
Was this loco made by Hunslet as YPs were made by Kraus Maffeii as well as North British (?) and by the Tatas in India - meaning design by Nasmyth but production by Hunslet ?

 

Nasmyth Wilson went out of business in 1938, I presume their designs and good will were taken over by Hunslet. Most builders plates for steam locomotives are on the side of the smoke box, if they still exist at all. Occasionally you will find them on the cylinder saddle (Porter and a few others) or the cylinders themselves (Schwartkopf).

The YP, WG, WP and WG were built by about fifteen different builders from about six or seven different countries.

 

From: Milind Thekedar <>

Subject: TATKAL SERVICE

Date: 06 Nov 1998 21:58:33 -0500


I am very much thankful to Railways for introduction of TATKAL SERVICE.
This Diwali I had gone to Nagpur as usual It was not a planned visit
hence I opted for TATKAL. I went to reservation counter 10 minutes
before 8.00 AM I was 22nd in que.After 6 persons the plans were closed.
Next day I went at 5 AM I found 4 persons already in que out of them 2
persons have offered their place in que for Rs.100.
After that last week I went to Vadodara by Vadodara express in TATKAL
SERVICE . Both time I have given my MASTER CARD as identification.But on
return journey the Booking clerk at Vadodara Stn refused to give me
reservation on my MASTERCARD Identification saying it should carry
photo.Thank God I had my voter card with me.
I have reffered the Time Tables of CR & WR.
CR Time Table Page 122 /1.2(2)-2 How to get (Tatkal reservation)
On production of either of the following documents for
identification,passanger can obtain confirm berth
first-come-first-served basis only one day in advance.
(a) Passport
(b) Credit card
(c) Driving Licence
(d) Voter identity card
(e) Any photo identity card.
WR Time Table page VA 22 Item 27(4)
FOR BOOKING Bank credit card with laser based photograph, or laser based
identity card (with proper sr.no.) or Passport or Driving licence with
laser based photograph,should be produced (Engish translation of Hindi
text).
The difference in WR/CR is Credit card with photograph/Credit card.Very
few banks issue CC with photograph hence Western Railways should not
insist on Photo based CC.
Regards.
MILIND

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: More rules from the WR tt

Date: 06 Nov 1998 22:48:45 -0500




Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> Gang !
>
> Here are some rules from the 1998 WR timetable. They are worthy of
being
> entered in Annie's 'What does it mean' contest.
>
> I have copied the entry in toto for your reading pleasure.
>
> Page 213 : General Information to Intending Travelling Passenger
>
>
> 14. Do not occupy berth or seat meant for 'Ladies" only. (rules meant
> for ladies as well ?)

Yes, and on this same page, just two inches (excuse, 6 cm) above, is
9. Male passengers should not travel in the coach specially earmarked fo
"Ladies"
and in RMS coach no person other than postal staff on duty are
permitted.

Why two rules about "Ladies" coaches?

For that matter, why the quotes on ladies?

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: More rules from the WR tt

Date: 06 Nov 1998 22:55:43 -0500



From the now infamous WR tt pg. 213 -
19. Stations Master have information regarding position of coach where
the
road side quota actually alloted...

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Diva Dombivali Sketch

Date: 07 Nov 1998 03:40:47 -0500


I had made a diagram some time back on this stretch.
Here it is

Some points on the diagram
1. The numbers on the scale are distance from Mumbai CST as indicated on
the
nearest poles.
2. All additional lines besides the suburban and through lines are
indicated
in red.
3. Note that the first line from Diva platform has no connection to the
Panvel line but joins with the main line. It is used for the Diva Vasai
DMU.
The evening service of the DMU is scheduled just after the Pune bound
Deccan
Queen passes on the Main line (1750 hrs).

Rajan

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Suri transmission/ indigenous technology

Date: 07 Nov 1998 04:47:52 -0500


Gang !

What I have understood of the Suri Transmission - First what is meant
by a hydraulic transmission - Every diesel loco has a flexible
coupling between its prime mover (the diesel engine) and its wheels. A
hyd loco has a 'torque convertor' and a 'fluid coupling'. A flexible
coupling is essential so as to allow the loco to start from standstill
with the load of a heavy train. If the diesel engine is not provided
with a flexible coupling it will stall like when a car put in gear
and the clutch is left without accelerating. BTW the flexible coupling
in a car is the
mechanical clutch which slips when the wheels accelerate. Once the car
reaches its road speed the clutch engages fully and the engine is
locked to the wheels (via the gearbox).
A mechanical trans is out of question for locomotive as the clutch
would be of an impracticably huge size. A hydraulic trans is
analogous like a fan throwing a draft of air and another fan in the
front of it turning due to the draft acting on its blades (due to
windmill effect). Thus both fans turn although there is no mechanical
coupling between the two - there is only a flexible coupling of air.
Hyd tranny has a input side (impeller) driven from the diesel engine -
this pumps oil which impinges on the turbine which gets driven from
the force of oil which is being thrown on its blades.
Now even if the system is very efficient there is bound to be some
slippage between the two elements of the hyd trans. This leads to
inefficiency. In Suri Trans the two parts are mechanically locked
after say 75 % rated speed. Hence there are no losses at full power.
Suri has a patent on this idea which I think is being utilized by
giants such as Voith (Germany) who are the leaders in Hyd. Trans
anywhere in the
world.
Suri and Nayar is till around manufacturing shunting & industrial
locos for private use. They also supply DHMUs and Overhead Wiring
vans for the Indian Railway.
Voith has its Indian collaborator 'Kirloskar Pneumatics' in Pune who
make trannys for many railway projects like the DHMU, OHE car and the
WDS 4. Hindustan Motors (in Mysore ?) make the hyd packs required for
the railbus and smaller track/OHE maint vehicles.

Apurva

Shankar wrote:

> Hello,
> I have in my hand the book "Indian Railways" by M.A.Rao, which I
picked up
> somewhere in the late early 80s, and which has now become a trifle dog
eared.
>
> There is a bit in here about the Suri transmission,which went over my
head
> by and large, as I'm not a technical man, and the explanation is heavy
> engineering
> high-fundaa.
>
> Anyway, the long and short of it is thus:
>
> In a diesel locomotive, the power generated by the diesel engine is
> transmitted to the wheels either mechanically (diesel-mechanical),
> hydraulically (diesel-hydraulic) or electrically (diesel-electric).
>
> A lot of energy is lost in this transmission at the input shaft due to
> conversion of the mechanical energy into electrical/hydraulic/static
energy.
>
> A further loss of energy occurs when this energy is converted back
into
> mechanical energy at the output shaft.
>
> (I quote):"these losses at both conversions are inherent and
inescapable
> unless the input and output shafts are mechanically and directly
brought
> together by means of a rigid coupling. Energy is then transmitted from
the
> input to output shaft with hardly any losses, resulting in high
efficiency
> and a substantial saving in fuel.
>
> This is the basis of the Suri transmission, which consists of a
minimum of
> two circuits: a convertor coupling and a fluid mechanical coupling,
arranged
> in parallel. The convertor coupling covers the first 2/3 of the
vehicle
> speed, with the fluid-mech. taking care of the remaning 1/3.
>
> The construction is simple, robust, low in weight and proce. Manual
control
> over circuit changeover is provided, enabling good drivers to effect
maximum
> amount of saving in fuel. (unquote)

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Wheel arrangements (was Hot news/Mystery Steam Loco)

Date: 07 Nov 1998 17:26:53 -0500


Hi Shanku and all,
I guess none of us can be authoritative about this one, but I have to
say
that the long list of designations for loco wheel arrangements has
always
seemd suspicious to me (I've seen it or its relatives elsewhere,
before).
Many of these names I have never heard used. There are one or two others
which are so rare that that they can't really be said to be in general
use.
For example, Victorian Railways used to refer to its sole 4-8-4 as a
"Pocono". I never heard the term used elsewhere. Sometimes, too, the
name
changed if there was a minor technical change: for example, a delta
trailing
truck, or something like that.
Some of those designations are railroad-specific, like "big boy" for
4-8-8-4s -- these were the Union Pacific Mallets, and no others (if they
existed at all ) were called Big Boys. (On the other hand, the 4-6-6-4
Challenger design was multiplied and belonged to several US roads, but
the
Challenger was a specific design of 4-6-6-4 Mallet - other 4-6-6-4s were
not
Challengers.)
And designations like "switcher" for 0-4-0 tend to ignore the fact
that
some lines -- like the Darjeeling Himalayan -- use 0-4-0Ts as their main
line engines!
Pinch of salt!
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
To: 'Shankar' <shankie@emirates.email Apurva Bahadur
<iti@giaspn01.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, 7 November 1998 8:44
Subject: RE: Wheel arrangements (was Hot news/Mystery Steam Loco)


>For anyone interested, here's a bigger list, courtesy of a site on the
web.
>Note that there are sometimes two or more names for a configuration.
>
>0-4-0 Switcher
>0-6-0 Six-wheel switcher
>0-8-0 Eight-wheel switcher
>0-10-0 Ten-wheel switcher
>2-4-2 Columbia
>2-6-0 Mogul
>2-6-2 Prairie
>2-6-6-2 Sierra
>2-6-6-6 Allegheny
>2-8-0 Consolidation
>2-8-2 Mikado
>2-8-4 Berkshire
>2-8-8-4 Yellowstone
>2-10-0 Decapod
>2-10-2 Sante Fe
>2-20-20-2 Virginian < good GOD! This isn't a locomotive, it's a
>conveyor belt! >
>2-10-4 Texas
>4-4-0 American
>4-4-2 Atlantic
>4-6-0 Ten-wheeler
>4-6-2 Pacific
>4-6-4 Hudson (Baltic)
>4-6-6-4 Challenger
>4-8-0 Twelve Wheeler or Mastodon
>4-8-2 Mountain
>4-8-4 Northern, Niagara (NYC), Greenbrier
>4-8-8-2 Cab Forward
>4-8-8-4 Big Boy
>4-10-2 Overland, Southern Pacific
>4-12-2 Union Pacific
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: foreign terminography

Date: 07 Nov 1998 17:35:20 -0500


Hi yet again,
End doors were quite a common feature of British private owner
wagons
(nearly all wooden, 4-wheel, and mostly hand braked only) and of their
company-built counterparts to Railway Clearing House (RCH) standards.
Most
of the Indian lines hand some end-door wagons, nearly always steel, and
most
19ft 6ins long, four-wheel. Both Indian and English end doors were
hinged
at the tops.
Further comment below
Cheers
Ken Walker

You wrote:

>We call the unloading machine a rotary dumper, and the car a rotary
dump
>gondola.
>Its a common, but technically incorrect, practice to call them
"hoppers".
Do please note that I didn't call any open a hopper, or v.v.

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Five foot six inch gauge

Date: 07 Nov 1998 17:36:45 -0500


Hi,
Curiously, Indian B.G. is now quoted (in the official IR Track
Manual, no
less) as 1676mm gauge.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: FyffesFL@aol.email <FyffesFL@aol.email
To: iti@giaspn01.email <iti@giaspn01.email
kjw_meh@powerup.email <kjw_meh@powerup.email
Cc: anniepoo@netmagic.email <anniepoo@netmagic.email irfca@cs.email
<irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, 7 November 1998 6:35
Subject: Re: Five foot six inch gauge


>I stand corrected on the Australian wide gauge. My deepest apolgies to
my
>Irish ancestors.
>
>The Spanish and Portuguese tracks were originally six Castillian feet
apart,
>or 1676 millimetres, not 1678 mm. I understand that British engineers
were
not
>involved with this choice, which was apparently coincidental !
>
>The military railways built in 1857 during the Crimean war to supply
the
>French and British besiegers of Sevastopol were also 5' 6" gauge. Some
of
this
>equipment was
>supposedly re-sold to Argentina, which is the origin of the wide gauge
in
that
>country.
>
>regards
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 07 Nov 1998 17:40:35 -0500


Hi all,
Plinthed is good English; the thing it stands on is the plinth (Greek
word, from statues). Pallets always make me think of those ratty wooden
things they use with forklifts.
Those of us who really like steam engines call it "stuffed and
mounted" -- notice the colloquial associations of the first word. A bit
unfair really, since a surprising number of engines have been rescued
for
parks and places recently and returned to active service.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
To: Indian Railway Fan Club Association <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, 6 November 1998 5:14
Subject: Fw: Locomotives on a pedestal


>Excuse me but I too think the term is `plinth' and not palletizing.
Could
>someone throw any light on the identity of the two more locomotives
behind
>Pune diesel trip shed as mentioned by Apurva.
>
>And same for the FMA class locomotive at `Vishweshvaraya museum' at
Banglore
>mentioned by Shankar. I always thought that the FMA class at NRM was
the
>same engine and had been moved here!
>
>HARSH
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
>To: Apurva Bahadur
>Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
>Date: Thursday, October 22, 1998 8:46 PM
>Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal
>
>
>>Hello friends,
>>Interesting. I mean the stored ones part. I did photograph the engine
at
>the
>>IRICEN complex entrance though, during my last trip to Poona in Dec.
1997.
>>Some of the plinthed engines are open to the public, some are not.
>>Here is a list I know of. The ones that cannot be freely photographed
are
>>marked @@.
>>
>>-A MTR ng engine at the NR headquarters, Delhi.@@
>>-A 'B' class 2' ng engine of the DHR outside the Rail Bhavan (IR
>>Headquarters) in Delhi@@
>>-A ng engine outside Rail Nilayam:SC headquarters at Secunderabad@@
>>-A YCG/1 mg electric outside the mg emu car shed at Tambaram in
Madras@@
>>-A Garratt at Kharagpur loco shed@@
>>-A MLR ng engine on the hilltop at Matheran station.
>>-A Baldwin tank engine at the Bhadravati Steel Works HQ@@
>>-Fairy Queen's sister 'Express' at Jamalpur workshop@@
>>-A ng engine from the SE outside Bangalore City station.
>>-An FMA class 0-6-0 mg engine at the Visweswaraya Industrial Museum in
>Bangalore
>>-A 2' ng 4-6-2 steamer from the Kishanganj branch of the DHR, and a
WCP/1
>>electric along with a horse drawn tram and a 1907 electric tram at
the
>>Nehru Science Centre in Bombay
>>These are all I can think of at the moment. Will post if I think of
>anything
>>else.
>>Best regards.
>>Shankar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 07:13 PM 10/22/98 +0530, you wrote:
>>>Gang
>>>
>>>There was a recent mail about the locomotives mounted on a pedestal
>>>outside the stations and such - I think the term used was
'palletizing'
>>>(?). There is a narrow gauge (2'6" gauge) Nasmyth & Co F class loco &
>>>its tender outside the Indian Railway Institute of Civil Engineering
>>>(IRICEN) which itself is in the Pune station complex. The number is
724.
>>>It was built at Nasmyth & Co, Manchester in 1921. It was introduced
in
>>>1923 on the Kurduwadi - Pandharpur section of the Barsi Light
Railway.
>>>It was transferred to the Murtajapur - Yewatmal section in 1983. It
was
>>>finally retired in full steam on the 13th April 1994 after 73 years
of
>>>service. It was 'rested' in the IRICEN campus on the 23rd December
1995.
>>>There are two more such locos in storage behind the WDS 4 trip shed
in
>>>the Up yard of Pune Jn.
>>>
>>>Apurva Bahadur
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Homing at Chennai (or rather, foreign terminography).

Date: 07 Nov 1998 17:47:17 -0500


Hi Apurva,
Tippler technology varies rather a lot. There was one design which
used a
rotary coupler on the train, so that each wagon could be rotated,
emptied,
and righted again without uncoupling. The IREC report didn't say, but I
gather that design was not under discussion in the spat between Railway
Board and Coal India. Other designs do involve uncoupling, and hence
re-coupling. They're obviously not adapted for use with locos having
creep
control, and winching (or sometimes just pushing with tractor, elephant,
horse or whatever else is handy) has tended to be the rule.
Perhaps someone familiar with the Indian coalfields can tell us more
about current practice? I know there's a hell of a lot of BOXNs around.
Cheers
Ken Walker



You wrote (snipped)
>Does a tippler involve a start - stop operation with each wagon
>decoupled and winched through the rotating frame ?
>
>Apurva
>
>

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: More fantasy trains

Date: 08 Nov 1998 02:32:43 -0500


Dear Vijay

The line is in the process of being upgraded becauses of the load of
trains
since March this year, especially the Rajdhani. I infact saw work in
progress.

I had mentioned more stops, after observing the BCT - ADI Shatabdi which
has
quite a few stops at "smaller" palces like Borivali, Vapi, Bharuch,
Anand
and Nadiad compared to the regular expected Surat, Vadodara halts.
Actually the stops could be Panvel, Ratnagiri, Kudal.

Karmali(Old Goa) was for its proximity to Panjim and North Goa as a
whole,
where a lot of tourists may detrain/entrain.
Chiplun as a industrial centre in the Konkan (Taj has their gateway
resort
located here too).
Kudal serves the important area of Sindhudurg district (and if the
timetable
is observed, trains will halt at either Sawantwadi, Kudal, Sindhudurg or
Kankavali stations)

Thane station has seen growing importance as a station for KR trains and
is
very conveniently located to the north of Mumbai's suburbs, and plays a
role
like Kalyan (for KR trains). Panvel is still far off and remote, but it
is a
station of the future to serve the emerging New Mumbai.

But if you noted, taking the harbour line extension from Kurla to Panvel
(34
km) compared to Kurla Diwa Panvel
(54 km), except for the locals, involves only two switches - at Kurla
(from
the main line) and Panvel (from the Harbour line to the main line. Via
Diwa
would mean a busy mainline till Diwa and more complicated crossings at
Diwa,
which can be time consuming.


Rajan

>> The CSTM Madgaon Shatabdi is already on the board.
>> I think its just waiting for the Rlys to actually introduce
>> it and get it
>> running.
>
> Has the Panvel-Roha line been upgraded? According to an article
posted a
> while back, a Shatabdi is possible only if Mumbai-Madgaon can be
covered
in
> 8 hrs. or less - it went on to mention that Panvel-Roha needs to be
> upgraded.

>IMHO, too many halts for a Shatabdi. A genuine Mumbai-Madgaon Shatabdi
>should halt at Panvel and Ratnagiri only. It could leave CSTM around
6.00
>am or 2.00 pm depending on which end would house the rake overnight.

What's irritating is that the train would end up crossing the TVC Raj on
a
single
>line section. One solution is to time the train so that it crosses the
>NZM-bound Raj. at Sawantwadi Rd. (a halt for the Raj.) and arrives at
>Madgaon around 2.00 pm. I would love to have a Mumbai Shatabdi whizz
past
a
>Delhi Raj. at a single line crossing.
>
>Vijay

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Konkan Railway

Date: 08 Nov 1998 02:34:07 -0500


Gang,

I'm back from Mangalore after a day's trip. it was a sudden trip to
leave my
Uncle. I went and returned by the 2619/2620 Kurla Mangalore Matsyagandha
Express and the journey was a very interesting peek at going-ons on the
KR
(Konkan Railways). While going, my train departed 2 1/2 hrs late and
reached
Mangalore 5 hrs late. The delay gave me an opportunity to view quite
extensively the Madgaon - Mangalore stretch. On the return, the train
was
running 2 hrs late and thus I was able to get a view of the Vaibhavwadi
Road
to Panvel stretch.

The train was hauled by WDM2 from Erode shed.

About the KR timetable, I just confirmed that the 0021/0022 Madgaon -
Mangalore express (Dep MAO 0815 Arr MAQ 1410 & Dep MAQ 1445 Arr MAQ
2045)
has been withdrawn. This train although indicated in the CR and SR
timetables, does not figure in the new KR timetable effective 15 Aug
1998.

I observed something peculiar, that if there train connections at
Mangalore,
then one train waits for the other. When I arrived by the 2619
Matsyagandha
into Mangalore 5 hrs late at 1250 hrs, the Chennai Mail departed at 1315
against scheduled departure time of 1215 hrs) allowing passengers to
transfer trains. Similarly on my departure the Matsyagandha express
bound
for Kurla was delayed by 25 minutes (against scheduled departure time of
2100 hrs) as the Coimbatore Mangalore Fast Passenger arrived into
Mangalore
at 2115 hrs. I wonder whether this is always true or totally
coincidental.

The SR timetable was in shortage - I mean not avbl, when I enquired at
MAQ.
However the SR are distributing a free yellow sheet indicating all the
latest updates/changes to the SR Timetable dated 15 Aug 98.


One major change is increase in frequency of Bangalore SBC - H.
Nizamuddin
NZM Rajdhani Express which will run 3 times weekly from 01.12.98 - 2429
ex
SBC M,W,Th and 2430 ex NZM M,Tu, Sa.

The SBC - VSKP train will run biweekly from 01 Dec

Sunday evening at Mangalore, I spotted a WDM 7 (seven) , 11015 - from
Ernakulam loco shed. It was used to shunt the train from the yard into
the
platform. Can anyone throw some more light on this model.

Another interesting observation - Mangalore - Shoranur and the KR
stretch
between Thokur and Panvel have electric signallling, but for the narrow
stretch of about 14 km of Kankanadi to Thokur (start of KR territory and
branching to the Mangalore Refinery, semaphore signals appeared to be in
operation. (reminants of the MG era?)

Also the old MG line from Kankanadi to Hassan was completely dismantled
and
concrete sleepers strewn across. I guess, waiting for the BG track to be
laid.

On the Roha - Panvel section, tokens were exchanged although the
signalling
was electric.

As I had mentioned earlier, the Goa - Mangalore stretch was flatter,
greener
with numerous rivers and very scenic.
The stretch from Kudal to Veer Dasgaon was extremely rugged witn
numerous
tunnels and bridges and Viaducts.

The journey was indeed a breathtaking experience with the unique line

Rajan

From: Sankaran Kumar <>

Subject: Re: AC First Class

Date: 08 Nov 1998 16:44:59 -0500






>
>Are the coachs in AC 1 divided into 2/4 compartments as with the non-AC

1?
>
>
To the best of my knowledge they are. Essentially the difference
between AC1 and non-AC First is the AC and the supply of bedding with no

extra charge. The luggage allowance is also higher in AC1. Of course
the AC1 will have dark windows.

Kumar

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