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From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues

Date: 04 Nov 1998 16:32:01 -0500


> -New Italian-made EMU introduced on Madras Beach-Tambaram.
> Photo shows the rake with a double panto.

That's (double panto) very interesting. All the EMUs intorduced
in early 50s on WR and CR had 4 coaches, two motor-coaches with
driving cabs, two trailer coaches. Each train had two units.
Motorcoaches had only one panto each. Stock came from UK, Italy
and Japan with identical specifications.

However, EMUs in Calcutta (made by MAN), operated on 3000V DC
had two pantos per motorcoach. Each unit had two trailers with
driving cab and one motorcoach. After conversion to 1500V DC,
WR EMUs had three units per train.

Original BTH stock on WR as well as EMUs on CR that came in 1928,
both had two pantos per motorcoach, too.

Again in 1960, one panto motorcoach design was adapted as standard
for all EMUs on WR and CR (may be ER and SR too?)

Prakash

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Homing at Chennai

Date: 04 Nov 1998 19:53:21 -0500


The PRO in Pune was to get an email connection a few months back. But
then he also did not have any computers (or literacy on how to use them
?). I will get him introduced to this group. So after a hard day of
warding off the accusations and hard bricks, he can switch on his PC,
log in and wallow in the comfort of the IRFCA for a while. Atleast I can
convince him to listen in passively without contributing.

Apurva

PS: 'iti' is the petname of Aditi (my 3 1/2 year old daughter) - many
couples in India name their email accounts after a common desired object
! It is Apurva you are talking to when you dial 'iti'. You can see all
of us in the 'Visit to Daund webpage' whose url is:
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Daund/visit_to_daund.htm">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Daund/visit_to_daund.htm</A>

Apurva


Vdate@aol.email wrote:

> What I want to say is not a new idea. It has been ably expressed by
many
> including "iti" in the past. I wish somebody in IR (perhaps PR
office) reads
> these posting and contributes.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Hot news

Date: 04 Nov 1998 19:58:10 -0500


Gang !

My dad is just back from New Delhi yesterday evening. On the way to the
airport he crossed a fly over over Delhi cant station (?) and he saw a
meter gauge steam engine heading a passenger train ! He is not very sure
whether it had smoke deflectors but it is most likely to be a YP or a
YG. Steam hauled trains are still on in the capital of the country !

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <>

Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE

Date: 04 Nov 1998 21:46:33 -0500


PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE TILL FURTHER REQUEST.

-- SHRINIVAS



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From: Netcomm Labs <>

Subject: unsubscribe

Date: 04 Nov 1998 22:22:01 -0500


pls unsubscribe till further request

From: Sachin P Keshavan <>

Subject: Re: Hot news

Date: 04 Nov 1998 22:53:09 -0500


Hi,
The loco which Apoorva's father would have seen may be the Fairy Queen.

It is the oldest working Steam Loco. There was a special tourist train
to Rajasthan, and the Fairy Queen pulled this train. And the Palace on
Wheels too use Steam Loco betweem Delhi and Agra stations.

Sachin.
>Gang !
>
>My dad is just back from New Delhi yesterday evening. On the way to
>the airport he crossed a fly over over Delhi cant station (?) and he
>saw a meter gauge steam engine heading a passenger train ! He is not
>very sure whether it had smoke deflectors but it is most likely to >be
a YP or a YG. Steam hauled trains are still on in the capital of >the
country !
>
>Apurva Bahadur


*******************************************
Sachin P Keshavan,
Software Engineer
Intelligent Software Solutions Pvt. Ltd.
Malleswaram, Bangalore.

E mail: sachin_pk@hotmail.email
Pager: 9624 - 285433
Phone: +91 - 80- 3314500
Home page: <A HREF="http://209.67.19.99/~sachin_pk">http://209.67.19.99/~sachin_pk</A>
-------------------------------------------
When everything seems lost,
Remember, future remains .....
*******************************************



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From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: KR time table news + SR tt

Date: 04 Nov 1998 22:55:29 -0500


Dear Gang,

My systems' been down since a week and I've just managed to get it
going, so
I guess I missed a few things already. I am trying to get the TT up but
being a spreadsheet of large size, its taking a bit of time I should
have it
up and running by next week. However if there are any timetable
enquiries on
KR I will be glad to answer them.

I will be out of town for two days ... I'm travelling on the
Matsyagandha
today dep 1515 for Mangalore. Will be back in a few days ...

Regards
Rajan

>Gang,
>
>I have just met the amiable Rajan Matthews who was in Pune for some
>work. He has a KR timetable ready with him in a spreadsheet format. It
>will be up on the net within no time at all. I could scan the yellow
>pages in the CR tt (which are the KR pages) if you want. Let me know.
>
>What Rajan has with him is the new SR time table. It is the model
>timetable for the entire IR. It is thinner and larger in format, has
>crystal clear colour (3 maps !) maps, is printed on semi gloss paper
>and is a joy to just have. I hope by next year the rest of the zones
>also come out with a similar time table.
>Kumar had sent a mail earlier about the excellent SR tt and I can see
>what he means.
>
>Apurva
>
>Balasubramanian, Vijay wrote:
>
>> > folks,
>> >
>> > is there some site out there where i can get the
>> > konkan railway time table from?
>> >
>> > thanks
>> > -karthikraju.
>> >
>> There used to be a site:
<A HREF="http://www.goenkar.com/info/schedules/krail.html">http://www.goenkar.com/info/schedules/krail.html</A>
>> but the link is not valid anymore. You could try using the online
timetable
>> from the <A HREF="http://www.indianrailway.com/railway">http://www.indianrailway.com/railway</A> page.
>>
>> Vijay
>
>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Hot news

Date: 04 Nov 1998 23:43:02 -0500


Sachin,

My father is still my father ! He will not make such mistakes - the FQ
is
very different from the loco 'I have on pics at Miraj' which is a YP or
a
YG.

Apurva

Sachin P Keshavan wrote:

> Hi,
> The loco which Apoorva's father would have seen may be the Fairy
Queen.
> It is the oldest working Steam Loco. There was a special tourist train
> to Rajasthan, and the Fairy Queen pulled this train. And the Palace on
> Wheels too use Steam Loco betweem Delhi and Agra stations.
>
> Sachin.
> >Gang !
> >
> >My dad is just back from New Delhi yesterday evening. On the way to
> >the airport he crossed a fly over over Delhi cant station (?) and he
> >saw a meter gauge steam engine heading a passenger train ! He is not
> >very sure whether it had smoke deflectors but it is most likely to
>be
> a YP or a YG. Steam hauled trains are still on in the capital of >the
> country !
> >
> >Apurva Bahadur
>
> *******************************************
> Sachin P Keshavan,
> Software Engineer
> Intelligent Software Solutions Pvt. Ltd.
> Malleswaram, Bangalore.
>
> E mail: sachin_pk@hotmail.email
> Pager: 9624 - 285433
> Phone: +91 - 80- 3314500
> Home page: <A HREF="http://209.67.19.99/~sachin_pk">http://209.67.19.99/~sachin_pk</A>
> -------------------------------------------
> When everything seems lost,
> Remember, future remains .....
> *******************************************
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues

Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:16:04 -0500


> Stock came from UK, Italy
> and Japan with identical specifications.

Could you spell out the manufacturers - I know that the Italian EMUs
were manufactured by Ansaldo & Breda , was there English Electric and
Kawasaki as well ?Were these EMUs not as wide as the current (ICF /
Jessops/BEML - whose design ?) stock ?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Homing at Chennai

Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:17:02 -0500

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Reply to Poras (+ request for favorite train journeys)

Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:49:07 -0500


> That didn't appear to be the case during my footplating on the Bhopal
> Shatabdi Exp. The driver and asst. driver weren't the least bothered
that
> the windshield wipers weren't operational and had to be manually
operated.
> The fact that the loco. was traveling at 140 kmph. against torrential
rains
> didn't seem to worry them.

Tell us more about a high speed ride in big rain. I have traveled in a
WDM 2 (on Goa Exp) between Pune and Miraj with almost continuos rain.
At times it was as if there was a fire hose being sprayed on the
windshield. The WDM 2 being not a very well sealed loco leaked some
water into the cab. The assistant driver heroically stuck out his
torso in driving rain at speed to pick up the ball token in a cane and
leather hoop which is required to be collected and surrendered at
every station on the way.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Sharing of rakes

Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:49:54 -0500


> >
> Is three-way rake sharing, such as the one you have described above,
> practised a lot on IR?

Seems to be - Often one saw Nizamuddin - Vishakhapantnam Express at
Pune ! This was in place of Goa Express rake, on inquiry I was told
that sometimes the home shed of the rake (Nizamuddin) did not have the
time (or forget) to change the name plates on the side of the
carriage.The advantage of sharing is to have better utilization of the
rake - it does not sit around. I am thinking about daily trains who
share rakes. The 7312-7339-8384 I have mentioned in my post are all
daily trains. Non daily trains usually have a smaller number of rakes
like Mysore - Bangalore - Nizamuddin Swaran Jayanti Exp has only one
rake and does the trip once a week, almost constantly on the move.
Yes, this sharing of
the rakes is one of the reason that the rakes lack a distinctive
colour. As the civil facilities on a station are limited, there is no
place to 'stable' and clean a rake, hence most rakes would be
continuously be kept on the move. The question of new trains out of
Pune are is in jeopardy because of the lack of space to stable the
rakes.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Homing at Chennai (or rather, foreign terminography).

Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:52:40 -0500


> There was a terriffic fight (probably not over yet) between IR and
Coal
> India (or whatever) back around 1980 or so about whether they'd have
> tipplers (BOXNs) or hopper wagons for coal traffic. IR favoured
tipplers
> because they were cheaper, but Coal India wanted hoppers, citing
> coupling/uncoupling problems, extra cost of tippling machinery, etc.
The
> Railway Review Committee (1980s) took the coal industry's side. q.v.
> Cheers
> Ken Walker

I have seen wagon tipplers in thermal power stations, as well as
bottom
discharge hoppers on track between Mughal Sarai and Dhanbad. Both
types seem to be in use. Coal fields such as Singrauli have miles of
BOXN (open - non bottom discharge) wagons. Someone told me long ago
that the wagons which transport coal from the coal fields to say
thermal power stations are different from the one that actually get on
the tippler - there is a transfer point somewhere.
I have also seen the internal BOXN 'merry go round' wagons of the
National Thermal Power Corporation NTPC (bright blue colour) in the
Jayant and Amlori thermal power plants near Singrauli. They were
hauled by NTPC's rust coloured WDM2s and WDS 6 which according to
(Jane's ?) a book I cannot recall have been fitted with creep control
- which keeps the loco moving at a steady slow speed.
Does a tippler involve a start - stop operation with each wagon
decoupled and winched through the rotating frame ?

Apurva

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: More fantasy trains

Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:58:46 -0500


The CSTM Madgaon Shatabdi is already on the board.
I think its just waiting for the Rlys to actually introduce it and get
it
running.

Here's my shot ...

Via TNA Thane - DW Diva Jn.
CSTM d 0515 DR d 0530 (*via TNA+DW*) TNA d 0605 PNVL d 0700 RN d 1055
MAO a
1350

MAO d 1415 RN d 1710 PNVL d 2100 (*via DW+TNA*) TNA d 2155 DR a 2245
CSTM a
2305

Via CLA Kurla - VSH Vashi - BEPR Belapur - (Harbour line extension)
CSTM d 0515 DR d 0530 (*via VSH+BEPR*) CLA pass 0540 BEPR pass 0610 PNVL
d
0635 RN d 1030 MAO a 1330

MAO d 1415 RN d 1710 PNVL d 2100 (*via BEPR+VSH*) BEPR pass 2125 CLA
pass
2200 DR a 2210 CSTM a 2230


Halts at DR Dadar CR / TNA Thane / PNVL Panvel / CHI Chiplun / RN
Ratnagiri
/ KUDL Kudal / KRMI Karmali / MAO Madgaon in both directions

WDM2 all the way

Rajan

>Hi All,
>I'm very keen on seeing a CSTM-Madgaon Shatabdi service introduced --
>with halts at Panvel and Ratnagiri. WDM2 hauled all the way?
>Anyone want to take a shot at the running time/timetable for such a
>train?
>
>Vivek.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Why 5'6" ?

Date: 05 Nov 1998 01:08:56 -0500




FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:

> Experience with 4' 8.5" showed that a wider gauge would provide more
space for
> cargo, and increased stability. Also bigger boilers and more power.
The seven
> foor gauge tried in England was deemed too wide.
>
> Wide gauge was also used by british engineers building lines in
Australia (
> 5.6 ), Argentina ( 5.6 ), Brazil ( 5.3 ), and Ireland ( 5.3 ). For
many years
> some USA lines ran on five foot and six foot gauge, until interline
traffice
> made standardization inevitable. The Panama Canal railway is still
five foot
> gauge.
>
> regards to all
>
> Richard Yudin

In the US, we've had to go through all sorts of conniptions to get a
firebox big
enough
to heat the boiler and still narrow enough to fit between the rails.
With anthracite, it's a nightmare - anthracite has a high specific heat
of
combustion, but
a very slow burn rate. Anybody know what the Bihar coal is? Is it soft
or hard?
I know I saw wagons of anthracite standing outside Calcutta on the way
in.

Annie

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: foreign terminography

Date: 05 Nov 1998 01:18:41 -0500



What's a "tippler" and a "hopper wagon"?

We have something called a side dump car - it's a car with low sides,
open on
top,
there's a hinge underneath and air cylinders to dump the whole car over.
They're mostly
used for railway maintainence.

Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:

> Hi Annie,
> Now there's a nice point. In UK/Colonial speech, hoppers are not
open
> wagons! In fact, we have covered hoppers too, for wheat and such.
> There was a terriffic fight (probably not over yet) between IR and
Coal
> India (or whatever) back around 1980 or so about whether they'd have
> tipplers (BOXNs) or hopper wagons for coal traffic. IR favoured
tipplers
> because they were cheaper, but Coal India wanted hoppers, citing
> coupling/uncoupling problems, extra cost of tippling machinery, etc.
The
> Railway Review Committee (1980s) took the coal industry's side. q.v.
> Cheers
> Ken Walker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
> To: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <kjw_meh@powerup.email
> Date: Wednesday, 4 November 1998 10:09
> Subject: Re: Homing at Chennai (or rather, foreign terminography).
>
> >
> >
> >Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >> One more for the list. Open wagons -- actually classed O in
India --
> are
> >> called "gondolas" in the USA.
> >> Cheers
> >> Ken Walker
> >
> >Flat bottomed open wagons are gondolas.
> >Self unloading wagons with sloped bottoms and dump doors are
"hoppers"
> >
> >
> >
> >

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues

Date: 05 Nov 1998 01:25:39 -0500


On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> > Stock came from UK, Italy
> > and Japan with identical specifications.
>
> Could you spell out the manufacturers - I know that the Italian EMUs
> were manufactured by Ansaldo & Breda , was there English Electric and
> Kawasaki as well ?Were these EMUs not as wide as the current (ICF /
> Jessops/BEML - whose design ?) stock ?
>
> Apurva
>

Some of our EMUs came from Fiat of Italy.

Viraf
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: This list

Date: 05 Nov 1998 03:51:59 -0500


> The Gandhidham Area of the Western Railway serves the Kandla Port and
> Kutch at large. The traffic largely comprises imported oil,
fertilizer,
> food-grain and salt. For the first two months I had a running shed
homing
> 20 YDM1 class and 4 WDS4 class locomotives under my charge. My primary
> responsibility was to ensure availability and reliability of these
motive
> units. This posting offered an exposure to maintenance planning and
> inventory management.

The same shed homed MG as well as BG locos ?

> The wagon shed is unique in the variety of stock it handles. Movement
of
> special wagons for Over Dimensional Consignments was part of the many
> interesting facets of the work.

Such as wagons hauling electrical transformers and fabricated structures
?

> I was the officer-in-charge of the Accident Relief Trains. The
difficult
> sub-soil conditions in the Ranns of Kutch make freight rail operations
> accident-prone in the area. Each accident was a lesson in crisis
> management.

Explain in detail one accident scene. I take it that the Raan soil
shifting causes the gauge to vary and hence cause derailment. Explain
what equipment is carried in the AR rake. What exactly is a 'Lucas' ?

> August 1996-January 1997 Diesel Locomotive Shed, Vatva

Did the Vatva shed ever home the Rajdhani - AK Rajdhani power? I saw a
WDM 2 pair from Vatwa at Bandra shed which the local gang claimed was
the Rajdhani power.

> January 1997 - June 1997 Diesel Locomotive Shed,
> Pratapnagar
>
> Was promoted as independent head of the largest narrow gauge
locomotive
> shed in the country.

This is the largest NG shed anywhere in the world. Which locos homed at
Pratapnagar ?

> Baroda division has the most extensive narrow gauge
> network on the Indian Railways. Responsibilities here included
monitoring
> of Broad Gauge loco operations on the division as well.

Broad gauge locos such as ?

> Apart from the routine rail operations we were able to revive a narrow
> gauge steam powered train with the saloons from the Gaekwar's railway.
> Collection of other archival material on the heritage was also
collected
> and a museum started. This was later included in a CD-ROM that we made
for
> the division (on the inauguration of the Pratapnagar museum)

Is this CDROM available to the general public ? (Me !)

> English followed by a psychological test.

Toc check who is psychologically fit survive the wild land of Jamalpur ?
:-) !

Anecdotes from your experience can start many wonderful discussions.

Apurva

From: Madhav Acharya <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues

Date: 05 Nov 1998 05:07:49 -0500


Hi

If I'm not mistaken, the Poorva (AC) express also stops at
Dehri-on-Sone,
Bardhaman and a
couple of other places. And the travel time used to be 24 hrs back when
it
was 81/82.
So things have actually gotten worse in 40 yrs ! As for the fares, how
much
has inflation
gone up in the same time ? I'm quite sure it would have outstripped the
rise in rail fares.

Thanks to all who have given info on the origins of 5'6" gauge.

Madhav

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Re: Why 5'6" ?

Date: 05 Nov 1998 05:52:48 -0500


Anne Ogborn wrote:
>
> FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:
>
> > Experience with 4' 8.5" showed that a wider gauge would provide more
space for
> > cargo, and increased stability. Also bigger boilers and more power.
The seven
> > foor gauge tried in England was deemed too wide.
> >
> > Wide gauge was also used by british engineers building lines in
Australia (
> > 5.6 ), Argentina ( 5.6 ), Brazil ( 5.3 ), and Ireland ( 5.3 ). For
many years
> > some USA lines ran on five foot and six foot gauge, until interline
traffice
> > made standardization inevitable. The Panama Canal railway is still
five foot
> > gauge.
> >
> > regards to all
> >
> > Richard Yudin
>
> In the US, we've had to go through all sorts of conniptions to get a
firebox big
> enough
> to heat the boiler and still narrow enough to fit between the rails.
> With anthracite, it's a nightmare - anthracite has a high specific
heat of
> combustion, but
> a very slow burn rate. Anybody know what the Bihar coal is? Is it soft
or hard?
> I know I saw wagons of anthracite standing outside Calcutta on the way
in.

Which lead to the development of the trailing truck, to support a
firebox wider than the track gauge. Witness such beasts as the
Chesapeake & Ohio Alleghany, a 2-6-6-6 articulated. Or the Norfolk &
Western "A" class, with 121 sq ft of firebox...wow.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

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