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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Matsyagandha Express

Date: 21 Oct 1998 06:03:07 -0500


Gang!

Who says Indian Railways lacks sense of humour ? As per a news item
today the 2619/2620 Kurla (Mumbai) - Mangalore - Kurla Express via
Konkan Railway will be renamed as Matsya gandha Express. For our non
Hindi speaking and non Indian friends Matsya gandha means 'smelling of
fish' ! Legend has it that a certain lady (known as Matsya gandha) in
the really ancient times was a fisher woman (and necessarily lower in
the caste system ?) and obviously smelling strongly seduced a certain
sage. The sage was so pleased by the carnal pleasures he received that
he gave a boon to the lady to smell fragrantly ever after. My knowledge
of ancient scriptures is very limited so this is my interpretation of
the story - perhaps a more correct and appropriate version could be
narrated by others.
Thus the fishy express will go from the strong smelling Kurla terminus
to the fishing port of Mangalore via Karwar (where much of the fish that
is available in Mumbai & Pune comes from).
One opinion I have heard in Pune is that this is an attempt by the BJP
govt to bring Hindu lore into the otherwise secular daily life.
Will this superfast train be used to transport fish to Mumbai ?

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Visit to the station

Date: 21 Oct 1998 06:13:50 -0500


Gang !

Just back from the station to pick up some guests arriving for the
holiday season. I saw a Guntakal WDM 2 with a number '17660R'. There was
nothing unusual about the loco but this is the first time I have seen
the number of a loco with an addition. Anyone with a clue to the
additional 'R'. I asked the assistant driver about the 'R' and he told
me seriously that 'R' probably stood for 'Railways'. I gave up instantly
any further attempt to derive knowledge from him.
Usually a derivative of a loco will have an additional letter it its
type text like WDM 2A or a WAM 4P.
I also saw an unusual freight rake with 'BCC' written on its side. It
was air braked and was eight wheeled (four axled). It was white in
colour and had a near passenger coach profile. It had sort of
ventilators (?) on the top and some thick pipes near the buffers. I
believe that this was a bulk cement wagon with pneumatic loading and
unloading of the cement powder. Usually the cement rakes are closed
BCN/BCNA rakes full of 50 Kg cement bags. Any better idea about the
identity of the rake ?

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Matsyagandha Express

Date: 21 Oct 1998 11:07:46 -0500


Interesting story, Apurva.

A couple of notes:

1) When I saw this, I recalled sort of seeing it in Indian Express a
while
ago. So I looked up the archives on the web, and there it was, being
announce back in September.

See <A HREF="http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/19980907/25050624p.html">http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/19980907/25050624p.html</A>.

Perhaps the naming had been postponed, and has now surfaced again?

2) The story of Matsya Gandha is, I believe, from the Mahabharata - she
did
not just sleep with a sage, but gave birth to Ved Vyas, the sage who (at
least supposedly) composed the Mahabharata. So, technically, she would
be
the "grandmother of the Mahabharata". :) Of course, this begs the
question,
if he was born in Rourkela, how did a pregnant woman trek across the
country
- especially as there were no trains. :) Perhaps someone with more
knowledge
of the epic (or, better still, a copy of it) can clarify!

Shanku


-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur [mailto:iti@giaspn01.email
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 6:03 AM
To: IRFCA
Subject: Matsyagandha Express


Gang!

Who says Indian Railways lacks sense of humour ? As per a news item
today the 2619/2620 Kurla (Mumbai) - Mangalore - Kurla Express via
Konkan Railway will be renamed as Matsya gandha Express. For our non
Hindi speaking and non Indian friends Matsya gandha means 'smelling of
fish' ! Legend has it that a certain lady (known as Matsya gandha) in
the really ancient times was a fisher woman (and necessarily lower in
the caste system ?) and obviously smelling strongly seduced a certain
sage. The sage was so pleased by the carnal pleasures he received that
he gave a boon to the lady to smell fragrantly ever after. My knowledge
of ancient scriptures is very limited so this is my interpretation of
the story - perhaps a more correct and appropriate version could be
narrated by others.
Thus the fishy express will go from the strong smelling Kurla terminus
to the fishing port of Mangalore via Karwar (where much of the fish that
is available in Mumbai & Pune comes from).
One opinion I have heard in Pune is that this is an attempt by the BJP
govt to bring Hindu lore into the otherwise secular daily life.
Will this superfast train be used to transport fish to Mumbai ?

Apurva Bahadur

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Railway Booksellers - Motorbooks vs Midland Counties

Date: 22 Oct 1998 00:56:35 -0500


Dear Peter,
Problems with Motor Books go back far further than a recent change
of
ownership. In my view, they were never much good after they took over
the
railway business of Oxford Publishing (I had no contact with them before
that). That was quite some years ago.
Other railfans here in Australia have also had problems with them,
some
pre-dating mine.
Recommendation: steer clear. Let's hope they fail.
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Mosse <pjcm@worldnet.email
To: Indian Railways List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, 21 October 1998 11:22
Subject: Railway Booksellers - Motorbooks vs Midland Counties


>There has been some discussion in the past about these two UK
booksellers
>which has largely generated criticism of Motorbooks and praise for
Midland
>Counties.
>
>I understand from some railfan friends from England who have just been
>visiting that one reason for the problems at Motorbooks is that the
>ownership has changed. It seems to them that the new owner(s) are
>unwilling to stock up on new publications until existing inventory is
>worked off, but at the same time he/they are unwilling to discount the
>existing inventory despite the fact that much of it is shopworn through
>having had too many browsers and not enough buyers coming to the shop
in
>the past.
>
>So my advice remains the same - buy from Midland Counties !!
>
>Peter Mosse
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 22 Oct 1998 06:43:17 -0500


Gang

There was a recent mail about the locomotives mounted on a pedestal
outside the stations and such - I think the term used was 'palletizing'
(?). There is a narrow gauge (2'6" gauge) Nasmyth & Co F class loco &
its tender outside the Indian Railway Institute of Civil Engineering
(IRICEN) which itself is in the Pune station complex. The number is 724.
It was built at Nasmyth & Co, Manchester in 1921. It was introduced in
1923 on the Kurduwadi - Pandharpur section of the Barsi Light Railway.
It was transferred to the Murtajapur - Yewatmal section in 1983. It was
finally retired in full steam on the 13th April 1994 after 73 years of
service. It was 'rested' in the IRICEN campus on the 23rd December 1995.
There are two more such locos in storage behind the WDS 4 trip shed in
the Up yard of Pune Jn.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 22 Oct 1998 07:37:39 -0500


Hello friends,
Interesting. I mean the stored ones part. I did photograph the engine at
the
IRICEN complex entrance though, during my last trip to Poona in Dec.
1997.
Some of the plinthed engines are open to the public, some are not.
Here is a list I know of. The ones that cannot be freely photographed
are
marked @@.

-A MTR ng engine at the NR headquarters, Delhi.@@
-A 'B' class 2' ng engine of the DHR outside the Rail Bhavan (IR
Headquarters) in Delhi@@
-A ng engine outside Rail Nilayam:SC headquarters at Secunderabad@@
-A YCG/1 mg electric outside the mg emu car shed at Tambaram in Madras@@
-A Garratt at Kharagpur loco shed@@
-A MLR ng engine on the hilltop at Matheran station.
-A Baldwin tank engine at the Bhadravati Steel Works HQ@@
-Fairy Queen's sister 'Express' at Jamalpur workshop@@
-A ng engine from the SE outside Bangalore City station.
-An FMA class 0-6-0 mg engine at the Visweswaraya Industrial Museum in
Bangalore
-A 2' ng 4-6-2 steamer from the Kishanganj branch of the DHR, and a
WCP/1
electric along with a horse drawn tram and a 1907 electric tram at the
Nehru Science Centre in Bombay
These are all I can think of at the moment. Will post if I think of
anything
else.
Best regards.
Shankar




At 07:13 PM 10/22/98 +0530, you wrote:
>Gang
>
>There was a recent mail about the locomotives mounted on a pedestal
>outside the stations and such - I think the term used was 'palletizing'
>(?). There is a narrow gauge (2'6" gauge) Nasmyth & Co F class loco &
>its tender outside the Indian Railway Institute of Civil Engineering
>(IRICEN) which itself is in the Pune station complex. The number is
724.
>It was built at Nasmyth & Co, Manchester in 1921. It was introduced in
>1923 on the Kurduwadi - Pandharpur section of the Barsi Light Railway.
>It was transferred to the Murtajapur - Yewatmal section in 1983. It was
>finally retired in full steam on the 13th April 1994 after 73 years of
>service. It was 'rested' in the IRICEN campus on the 23rd December
1995.
>There are two more such locos in storage behind the WDS 4 trip shed in
>the Up yard of Pune Jn.
>
>Apurva Bahadur
>
>
>

From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Fw: (Fwd) Re: Railway Booksellers - Motorbooks vs Midland Countie

Date: 22 Oct 1998 08:36:49 -0500



-----Original Message-----
From: Iain A Fraser <iain@aerolite.email
To: railroadeurope@freedom.email
<railroadeurope@freedom.email
Date: 22 October 1998 11:40
Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: Railway Booksellers - Motorbooks vs Midland
Countie


>
>As a Railway Bookseller (declaring my interest up front!) I have
followed
>this thread with interest. It is sad to hear about the levels of
service
>shown and this does no good to any of us in the trade.
>FWIW....I believe that Motorbooks are not really that interested in
rail.
>The shops stock balance is heavily biased to...motors , and the staff,
in
my
>experience, know very little about the subject. This latter comment is
>unfortunately true of a lot of dealers.
>Midland Counties are big business and their list is very wide as they
do
>air/sea/military
>road/ agriculture machinery/commercial vehicles as well as railway.
They
>also carry a small secondhand selection but dont really specialise in
that
>field. In my dealings with them as a customer I find that they are good
on
>what is currently available from the mainstream publishers but weak on
what
>has been published in the past. I have found their service to be
adequate
at
>all times.
>There are specialist railway book dealers in the UK and the quality of
their
>knowledge is very variable. If you find a good one stick with
him/her.!!!
>The internet is not yet a fact of life for many in this country and
there
>are very few dealers on line.
>A good specialist should be able to offer a comprehensive knowledge of
what
>has been published and what is available from the mainstream AND the
>smaller publishers
>who dont get the wider sales and tend to be very specialised....and the
>stock to back it up!
>To do it properly is a full time job ( its my full time job!) and much
of
it
>is taken up with advising people about the books they need...you wont
find
>the "big boys" spending time discussing the merits of drawings in one
book
>versus another or the accuracy of information in a book published in
the
>1870s! or locating that one special book
>that you saw in a shop in Berlin in 1957....you know the one with the
brown
>cover
>...about Luttermoller systems!
>
>Keep reading.
>
>Regards to all
>
>Iain
>Aerolite Booktraders
>Rail Book Specialist
>

From: Doug Cummings <>

Subject: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 22 Oct 1998 08:37:30 -0500


When I went to enter the note that IR 724 was on display at Pune in my data base I could not find it under Nasmyth Wilson as the builder.
 
This locomotive was actually built by Hunslet Engine Co. in 1949, serial 3669.
 
Doug Cummings,
email: ihp@iStar.email <mailto:ihp@iStar.email

From: Vaibhav Galriya <>

Subject:

Date: 22 Oct 1998 11:18:22 -0500


Dear Sir,

I'm,Vaibhav Galriya, IAS(P) currently undergoing Foundation
Course at LBS National Academy of Administration, Mussoorie. I was in
Indian Railway Traffic Service (IRTS) for a year before joining IAS this

September. I would like to be a part of IRFCA.
At the outset let me congratulate you all for creating and
being a part of such a vast club
I'm in need of your help.I'm wring a term paper on "IT in
Indian Railways". Can you give me some information in this regard e.g.
website containing such information,any book or any other source.Can I
expect your responce at the earliest?
With thanks.

Yours
Vaibhav Galriya, IAS(P)
LBSNAA, Mussoorie (U.P.)



______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Amazon opens English branch

Date: 22 Oct 1998 17:16:28 -0500


Here's an interesting informational message I got in my email today. For
those of us in North America who don't have convenient access to books
published in the UK, this might be a convenient (though probably not
very
inexpensive) solution to quickly getting books. I performed several
searches
on railway titles, and books like Hugh Hughes' Indian Locomotives
series,
which is not easily available through mainstream US web sites, are
available
through this site (albeit on special order).

The shipping costs to North America are £2.95 plus £2 per book, for 5-7
working day delivery (plus the time it takes for them to get the book).

The URL is <A HREF="http://www.amazon.co.uk">http://www.amazon.co.uk</A>.

Cheers,
Shanku

From: Vdate <>

Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 22 Oct 1998 21:03:24 -0500


There is (was in mid sixties) the first loco made in Ajmer Loco shop on
a
pedestal in front of AII loco shop.

From: Larry Russell <>

Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 22 Oct 1998 21:58:22 -0500


There are 2 ancient engines and a diesel on display at DLW plant in
Varanasi.
The steam is "Hercules" (0-4-0), CS 776 "Miss Muffett" and diesel
"Mahalaxmi" GE 45 Ton. They had also promised me that they would save a
couple of the YDM3/ YDM5 (of the 3 that were left in Sabarmati) when I
visited them in Feb. this year.
Larry

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 22 Oct 1998 22:18:50 -0500


Hello,
That was the F-1, now moved to the National Rail Museum, Delhi.
Best regards.
Shankar

At 12:03 AM 10/23/98 -0400, you wrote:
>There is (was in mid sixties) the first loco made in Ajmer Loco shop on
a
>pedestal in front of AII loco shop.
>

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 23 Oct 1998 00:37:47 -0500




Larry Russell wrote:

> There are 2 ancient engines and a diesel on display at DLW plant in
Varanasi.
> The steam is "Hercules" (0-4-0), CS 776 "Miss Muffett" and diesel
> "Mahalaxmi" GE 45 Ton. They had also promised me that they would save
a
> couple of the YDM3/ YDM5 (of the 3 that were left in Sabarmati) when I
> visited them in Feb. this year.
> Larry

I've fallen in love with CS 776 just from the name. A loco named "Miss
Muffett"!
That's great!

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: More Plinthed locos

Date: 23 Oct 1998 02:23:57 -0500


Gang!

The Howrah Jn has a NG loco between the circulating area and the ferry
wharf (I am not sure which type - [Katwa - Islampur ? type Delta most
likely].
Mumbai VT had a Neral Matheran Orentein & Koppel loco (different from
the one at Matheran).
I just remembered - Bhusawal has plinthed an entire WP !
Jabalpur has a ZE in the Eastern entrance.
Daund also has a ZE in the training institute.
Which leads me to believe that most of the major stations in India may
be hosting plinthed locos !
Thermax limited (a private Industry in Pune) has an ex army Huddeswell
Clark loco 'Reunion Mail' which they rescued from a scarp yard in Pune.
The loco is plinthed in their headquarters minus the steam dome and
sporting a dazzling blue paint.

More as I remember.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: conversion questions

Date: 23 Oct 1998 05:46:40 -0500


> >Londa-Marmagao (converted to BG but are passenger trains running?)
>
> The Goa Exp. used to run till Castle Rock but am not sure whether this
> has been extended till Vasco-da-gama.

The BG track is complete but the passenger service is yet to be started.
Freight trains are running up and down the Breganza ghat (Castle Rock -
Kulem). During the MG to BG conversion the catch sidings were neglected.
Either by bad planning or they will be taken up in the next phase.
Existing MG sized catch sidings cannot accommodate a 3000 Tonnes train
and
hence the delay. The safety commissioner has point blank refused to
certify this track fit for passenger traffic until the proper catch
sidings are in place. Hence BG passenger traffic comes to Castle Rock
at
the top of the ghat from Belgaum and Hubli side. Traffic also comes from
Vasco to Kulem at the bottom of the ghat but not through the incline.
I was in Madgaon last year to get a temperamental DMU started (the
engine
would trip when ever the power car had side to side oscillations such as
leaving the Madgaon yard) and the station gang suggested that I hitch a
ride on a freighter to Castle Rock and then take the Castle Rock -
Nizamuddin Goa Express to Pune. The timing was inconvenient otherwise by
now you would have had a first hand report.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: More Plinthed locos

Date: 23 Oct 1998 06:58:10 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Gang!
>
> The Howrah Jn has a NG loco between the circulating area and the
ferry
> wharf (I am not sure which type - [Katwa - Islampur ? type Delta most
> likely].

I may very well be wrong on this one, but my recollection is that it is
from the now defunct Howrah - Amta Light Railway.

> I just remembered - Bhusawal has plinthed an entire WP !

That shows excellent taste. In my opinion the WP is one of the most
beautiful locomotives ever to run on the Indian Railways.

I still have vivid memories of Bombay Mail via Nagpur departing Howrah
in the evening behind a WP/P. Or 81up AC Express speeding through Andal
Jn. or Koderma behind a WP painted in the same color scheme as the rake.
It was a sight to behold.

It is a pity that AFAIK very few (if any) have been preserved in running
order. Anyone know if any have been preserved in running order? Is the
Delhi Museum one in running condition?


--
Jishnu

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Locomotives on a pedestal

Date: 23 Oct 1998 22:05:53 -0500


 

 When I went to enter the note that IR 724 was on display at Pune in my data base I could not find it under Nasmyth Wilson as the builder. This locomotive was actually built by Hunslet Engine Co. in 1949, serial 3669. Doug Cummings,
email: ihp@iStar.email <mailto:ihp@iStar.email
fax (604) 444-3507

 Doug,

Can you tell me where the maker's plates are ? I can look it up in the loco itself, if they are still around and confirm its origins. I had borrowed a book from British Council Library in Pune called 'Relics of the Raj' and I always believed that this cute profile is hallmark of Nasmyth Wilson design studio. The loco sports a disproportionately large steam dome and a mid sized chimney.  I really like tiny NG steam locos with full tenders (not tank locos) pretending to be fully grown up locos. One picture from that book which is burnt in my mind is a Nasmyth Barsi Light Railway loco waiting on a bridge at Pangri to bank the next train up the Ramling ghat.
Was this loco made by Hunslet as YPs were made by Kraus Maffeii as well as North British (?) and by the Tatas in India - meaning design by Nasmyth but production by Hunslet ?

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: More Plinthed locos

Date: 23 Oct 1998 22:12:08 -0500


> I may very well be wrong on this one, but my recollection is that it
is
> from the now defunct Howrah - Amta Light Railway.
>
> > I just remembered - Bhusawal has plinthed an entire WP !
>
> That shows excellent taste. In my opinion the WP is one of the most
> beautiful locomotives ever to run on the Indian Railways.

May I second that - should we change that to one of the most beautiful
locomotives ever to run anywhere in the world ?

> I still have vivid memories of Bombay Mail via Nagpur departing Howrah
> in the evening behind a WP/P. Or 81up AC Express speeding through
Andal
> Jn. or Koderma behind a WP painted in the same color scheme as the
rake.
> It was a sight to behold.

Where was this loco homed and till where did this loco run to - Howrah -
Mughal Sarai ?, Howrah - Asansol ? What is the modern name and number of
81Up AC Express ?

> It is a pity that AFAIK very few (if any) have been preserved in
running
> order. Anyone know if any have been preserved in running order? Is the
> Delhi Museum one in running condition?

The answer would lie in the Asansol shed which homed the last BG steam
in India.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Barsi Light Loco

Date: 24 Oct 1998 23:50:16 -0500


Gang !

Prakash has sent me a photo and an engineering drawing of a Nasmyth G
class Barsi Light loco of 1928. From this profile it is quite evident
that the F class no 724 is also a Nasmyth product. I would request
Prakash to upload those pics to his website so that others may also
have a look. In the engineering view there is a 'rail washing valve'.
Can anyone explain what function that may have ?

Apurva

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