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From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: IndiaRail Passes

Date: 09 Oct 1998 22:04:36 -0500




Julian.Rainbow@waii.email wrote:

> If you are living outside India, then you can buy an IndiaRail Pass
for the
> General sales Agent in countires such as UK, USA and America. This
allows
> you to book your seat upto 1 year in advance. I don't know the
current
> prices but in 1991 I booked a 30 day 1st class pass for about US $100
and
> all my reverations were made before I arrived, it saves a lot of
queing at
> windows. Foreign tourists and that includes Indians non-resident in
India
> get priority on the quotas. The GSA in England is SD Enterprises
Wembley
> Park Road, London. For the exatct address look in Lonley Plants India
> Guide or Royston Ellis India by Rail, which also have address for
other
> countires.
>
> Julian
>

The lonely planet guide says it's unlikly you'll save money doing this,
for what it's worth.

Annie

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Photos on IR. (fwd)

Date: 10 Oct 1998 00:40:08 -0500




VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:

> The drivers are mostly friendly and often take you onboard just to
have
> some company and will often share their food.

This was once the rule rather than the exception. Many drivers used to
complain
if we went footplating with someone else.

> Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner or I would have
scanned
> all our photographs for you to see.

I have a 24 bit scanner which has been really procured for rail
photography and
the internet reason under the guise of our profession suddenly
'demanding' a flat
bed scanner. The offer is open to all - I can scan and upload any pics -
even if
they are sent by snail mail to me.

> Just a thought, can we all members compile our railway photographs
in a
> book and publish it? Do we have to take a prior permission from the
> railways

I believe that most of the drivers (who are really quite innocent,
inspite of
living in a big, bad city like Mumbai - they have no time to mix with
the corrupt
commoners) have no idea about the kind of trouble they can get in if all
the
rules regarding common public on the footplate and photography (without
permit of
course) are thrown at them. It is best that these pics are in our
private
collection. Or the pics are uploaded with 'worked over' details - all
the railmen
in my pics can be found with missing / blurred heads and other
distinctive
features to prevent them being identified if the pics were to go to the
'wrong'
hands.

> Talking about taking friends in the cab - well I have managed 13 of
my
> Godrej collegues in a WCG banker from Lonavala to Karjat down the
ghats.
> Appu you were there at the Lonavala station to attend Model Railway
> Society - Pune's meet there remember? And Shrinivas and Sarosh were
> there in the cab with the whole lot.

Yes I remember that - the chiroot smoking driver still remembers that -
You did
this right under the nose of the Divisional Electrical Engineer - He was
wondering how so many guys got into a cramped WCG 2 cab. Viraf - we also
did the
crowding of a WCG 2 footplate the first time we met - You, your wife
Kashmira,
both your children, Anand (who is of course unmarried :-) ) Shyama and
me
Other times of overcrowding are during the retirement of Mumbai division
drivers
(who has a farewell party at Pune, Igatpuri and in Mumbai). A whole gang
(over
100 + at time ) travel with the driver to Pune and back to Mumbai -
those time
has lots of people in the both the cabs of the loco and in the passage
between
the two cabs.

> Just a note to add, we never take undue advantage of the goodwill
that
> exists between the railway staff & us.

We better not - One bad report and we all will be prevented from getting
anywhere
near a footplate in the future. Bad news spreads fast !

Apurva

PS : Did the gang see the Indian Rail Steam loco show on the National
Geographic
Channel last week ? I did not - my cable TV does not have National Geog
- yet -
he will from next week ! I would appreciate a small gist /. review of
what was
shown on this program from anyone who has seen this.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Photos and the IR

Date: 10 Oct 1998 01:53:22 -0500




> (MAS-BLR-GOA-Bombay-Delhi-Hyderabad and back to Madras).

BLR is actually SBC in railway language. It should be MAS - SBC - VSG -
BBVT
(then !)- NDLS - HYB - MAS

> Anyway, at Londa I went to speak to the driver of the Golden Rock
YDM4A
> and with a little persuation he agreed to let me footplate the
oncoming
> 'ghat' section.

You have met one of the 'sweetest amongst the sweetest community' - a
driver
of the Hubli division. We have Hubli division on the Pune - Miraj -
Kolhapur
service and their hospitality and warmth to an outsider is exceptional.

Apurva

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Indrail Passes

Date: 10 Oct 1998 15:02:56 -0500


Dear all,
    I can offer a direct comparison of Indrail passes and "ordinary" tickets, since I've used both. "Ordinary" tickets offer you no special privileges. Before the computer booking system this often meant long queuing and problems with seat availability. It also meant that you paid all reservation fees and supplements.
    Indrail Passes (note NO "a") when first introduced were a truly terriffic bargain. But they became extremely popular, and my (unconfirmed) impression is that their price has risen far faster than the cost of living. However, they are still a very good deal, because they save immense hassle and confer certain really worthwhile privileges. First, once you have an Indrail, you have no further booking or reservation fees to pay. Second, telegraphic and advance booking is possible (it used to be 90 days in advance, but I note now 1 year?) simply by quoting the Pass serial number and passenger's name. Thirdly, possession of an Indrail generally means that you can access  the Tourist quota at any station having one, AND that -- provided only that some Congresswalla is not ahead of you -- you have a chance at any unused VIP quota seats. This is especially useful when something goes wrong (as it so often does -- not always IR's fault!) and you need a booking urgently out of Guntur or Ansansol or somewhere like that.  Fourthly, many stations have a Tourist guide or tourist booking counter where it is generally possible to get priority assistance (though avoid VT -- endless delays). Again, Indrail smooths your path.
      Ordinary fares are probably considerably cheaper -- especially if travelling III class. But what the Indrail does offer is vastly greater convenience.
       Your choice.

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Interesting article

Date: 10 Oct 1998 20:36:35 -0500


[Image]
[Image] October 11,1998 [Image]
New Delhi

[Image] Chugging on... on time: Indian trains better than UK's
Front Page NEW DELHI, Oct. 10 (From Vishal Thapar)
City
States This one, clearly, is for 'Ripley's Believe It or Not'.
Nation
Foreign The lurching and jerking Indian Railways are more punctual
Economy than smooth, hi-tech British Rail.
Sports
Opinion A 'Sunday Times' (London) study, confirmed by Barry Doe, an
Cartoon independent British transport consultant, has found that
with
Netfile a punctuality rate of 90 per cent, the Indian system is more
Home reliable over longer distances than UK's.

The British rate hovers between 71 percent (London-Glasgow)
Advertise and 88 per cent (London-Edinburgh) for journeys of about 650
Search km. In contrast, Indian punctuality ranges between 95 per
Archive cent and 73.9 per cent for massive subcontinental runs like
Feedback those of the Jammu Tawi-Kanyakumari Himsagar Express (3,726
About Us km, 75-hour journey time) and the Guwahati-Trivandrum
Express
(3,574 km, 74-hour and 25 minutes).
-----------
To confirm these figures, this reporter monitored train
[Image] movements at the New Delhi railway station for a fortnight.
During the week Oct. 1 to 7, long distance trains had a
NetFile punctuality rate of 82.5 percent, while suburban trains
ShowBuz clocked an impressive 97.1 per cent. In the week Sept. 24 to
Sunday Sept. 30, the figures were 78 and 97 per cent respectively.
L&S
Metro As in Britain, Indian trains are judged punctual if they
Gourmet arrive and leave within 10 minutes of the scheduled time.
Fare Trains like the Delhi-Hyderabad AP Express (1,765 km) have a
100 per cent on-time record.
-----------
The British study also found that fewer than 1 per cent of
[Image] the roughly 11,000 Indian trains — which carry 12 million
Classifieds passengers and 1.2 million tonnes of freight daily — are
Stocks cancelled in comparison with 2.5 percent in the UK.

----------- At Rail Bhawan, headquarters of the 62,000 km network, there
is surprise but no hurrahs. "Even 90 percent is not enough.
[Image] And we are not proud of the quality of our services," says
Shanti Narain, the Railway Board's Member (Traffic).
Front Page
City Suburban brains, like those in Mumbai, carry "superdense
States crush loads" — 400 per cent of capacity. The average speed
of
Nation the fastest trains is oddly around 70 kmph, and about 350
Foreign persons die annually in accidents.
Economy
Sports The real achievement lies in wrestling with adverse
Opinion conditions. "I can't think of anyone in Britain pulling an
Cartoon alarm chain to get off at his doorstep. This has a domino
Netfile effect on train movements down the line," explains D.P.S.
Home Sandhu, Senior Operations Manager, Delhi Zone. There are 52
unauthorised stops due to chain-pulling in the Danapur
divisin of Bihar alone. In the North-East, insurgency plays
havoc with punctuality. Pilot engines have to be run ahead
of
express trains to pre-empt sabotage. Thus, the
Delhi-Guwahati
Avadh-Assam, at 46 per cent, has the worst punctuality rate.

Then, there are delays due to trains running over people
(four deaths a day in the Delhi area) and cattle (six
run-overs daily) who get too close to the tracks.

There are other delays uniquely Indian. On Oct. 1, the
Amritsar Shatabdi Express was held up by 30 minutes to
enable
former Prime Minister I.K. Gujral board at Jalandhar.

The odds are daunting.

"Nowhere else in the world is passenger and freight traffic
run on the same track," points out Shanti Narain. Officers
like Sandhu have to plan 250 freight movements between the
arrival of 360 passenger trains in the Delhi area alone.
"The
situation is chaotic in the morning when suburban trains are
pouring in every five minutes," says an officer.

"We constantly monitor each train, however archaic our
methods," says Sandhu. Seventy field offices keep track of
train movements, with each long-distance train involving
coordination among 10,000 officials. "It takes me two
minutes
to find out the status of any train in the country," says
N.R. Sagar, Director, Punctuality at Rail Headquarters.

Action against delinquent staff is strict. Sandhu had
suspended three persons the day he met this reporter.

The one consolation the British can derive is that the
Indian
network has grown only 17 per cent over what was established
during the Raj.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Mumbai - Mysore train

Date: 10 Oct 1998 23:58:56 -0500


Gang !

As per a recent (I confess - I forgot to scan and upload on that day) CR
ad in the TOI there is a new train from Mumbai to Mysore via Mysore -
Hubli - Arsikere - Hassan. This is actually a diversion of the existing
1017/1018 Kurla - Bangalore via Miraj - Hubli which is a four times a
week train. The Mumbai Mysore train has a different number (1035 / 36 ?)
and operates on the rest of days. This is the first long distance train
which takes the newly converted BG track from Arsikere to Mysore via
Hassan and Hole Narasapur. The other train to Mysore - Hazrath
Nizzamuddin - Mysore Swaran Jayanti weekly Express takes the Pune -
Miraj - Hubli - Arsikere - Bangalore - Mysore route.
I will try and locate this newspaper and let you have the exact details.

Today's newpaper has a half page article on the 'Kashmir Rail' - Jammu -
Srinagar and its slow progress. I will scan it tomorrow for all of you.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Re: Indrail Passes

Date: 11 Oct 1998 00:01:41 -0500



An Indrail pass for AC-2T costs 275$ for 30 days.
A typical overnight journey on AC-2T on a superfast train,
together with reservation charges will cost around 20$.

So, if you are going to do a lot of travel, or your travel
will include several trips on Rajdhani and Shatabdis
then it will be cost effective to buy an Indrail pass.

Of course, it also saves you a lot of hassles as pointed by Ken Walker.

(I wish IR has some scheme for Indian travellers also. I travel
a lot every December, and I wouldn't mind buying a 275$ pass
for a month. The circular tickets do save a bit of money by
giving you the benefit of telescopic fares, but lack flexibility.)

Passes for shorter duration are less cost-effective than
passes for longer duration. A 90-day AC-2T pass is only 530$.

Passes for non-AC classes are much more expensive compared to
the cost of travel without pass. For comparison, a 30-day pass
is 125$, while the cost of an overnight journey is less than 5$.

Pass for AC-1st class is useless. It is double the cost of an
AC-2T pass, but there are so few trains with AC-1st class. If
you know your itinery, then first check the trains between those
cities. Find out if there are AC-1st class coaches on those trains,
and then only buy AC-1st class pass. A 30-day pass is 550$.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Bhau Joshi is no more

Date: 11 Oct 1998 01:04:12 -0500


This is to announce the sad demise of Bhau Joshi today morning due to
cancer. He was the founder and the moving spirit behind the Model
Railway Society of Pune (MRSP). He was also a dedicated enthusiast who
had single handedly collected models and recently opened his collection
to be displayed in a museum open to the public. He also guided and
encouraged the modeling activity amongst hundreds of railway lovers in
Pune, Mumbai and elsewhere. The MRSP has had monthly meetings for the
last 11 years without a break mainly possible due to the sheer
enthusiasm of Bhau Joshi.

My personal salute to a giant amongst the railway enthusiasts.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Bhau Joshi is no more

Date: 11 Oct 1998 03:37:37 -0500


MAY THE DEPARTED SOUL REST IN PEACE.

SHANKAR

Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> This is to announce the sad demise of Bhau Joshi today morning due to
> cancer. He was the founder and the moving spirit behind the Model
> Railway Society of Pune (MRSP). He was also a dedicated enthusiast who
> had single handedly collected models and recently opened his
collection
> to be displayed in a museum open to the public. He also guided and
> encouraged the modeling activity amongst hundreds of railway lovers in
> Pune, Mumbai and elsewhere. The MRSP has had monthly meetings for the
> last 11 years without a break mainly possible due to the sheer
> enthusiasm of Bhau Joshi.
>
> My personal salute to a giant amongst the railway enthusiasts.
>
> Apurva Bahadur

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Preserved Locomotives in India

Date: 11 Oct 1998 09:36:48 -0500


There is an interesting note in the latest issue of 'Continental Railway
Journal' which I have just received. It reads as follows:

" Somewhat surprisingly, there is no official record of locos plinthed
in
India. To enable this oversight to be corrected, the National Railway
Museum is seeking sightings from enthusiasts. Any relevant notes from
CRJ
readers to the sub-editor will be forwarded to the Museum Director."

[ 'Plinthed', in case it isn't obvious, is British-enthusiastspeak for
taking a locomotive and sticking it on a short section of track on a
platform or in the station forecourt or somewhere else where it is no
longer connected to active running lines. ]

These notes should obviously provide as much of the basic info as
possible,
ie Location, Railway Company and Running Number, Type and Class of Loco,
Wheel Arrangement, Builder and Builder's Number, Year of Manufacture and
Year of Withdrawal.

I am sure that some members of this list can help the railway museum
here.
If anyone outside India wants to send info to CRJ, the address is:

Mr A Lewendon
Langstone
Fryern Court Road
Burgate
Fordingbridge
Hants SP6 1NG
England

Obviously members in India would be better off sending info directly to
the
Museum Director. I don't have his address, so could someone post it to
the
list, please.

Peter Mosse

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Preserved Locomotives in India

Date: 11 Oct 1998 10:01:29 -0500


Hello,

If its the Director of India's NRM you want, the address is:

The Director,
National Rail Museum,
Chanakyapuri,
New Delhi-110 021.
India.

I can't quote the telephone or fax numbers offhand (I believe the old
telephone no 601816 has changed), but being a Govt. body, I suggest that
snailmail will be the best bet.

Best regards.

Shankar




Peter Mosse wrote:
>
> There is an interesting note in the latest issue of 'Continental
Railway
> Journal' which I have just received. It reads as follows:
>
> " Somewhat surprisingly, there is no official record of locos plinthed
in
> India. To enable this oversight to be corrected, the National Railway
> Museum is seeking sightings from enthusiasts. Any relevant notes from
CRJ
> readers to the sub-editor will be forwarded to the Museum Director."
>
> [ 'Plinthed', in case it isn't obvious, is British-enthusiastspeak for
> taking a locomotive and sticking it on a short section of track on a
> platform or in the station forecourt or somewhere else where it is no
> longer connected to active running lines. ]
>
> These notes should obviously provide as much of the basic info as
possible,
> ie Location, Railway Company and Running Number, Type and Class of
Loco,
> Wheel Arrangement, Builder and Builder's Number, Year of Manufacture
and
> Year of Withdrawal.
>
> I am sure that some members of this list can help the railway museum
here.
> If anyone outside India wants to send info to CRJ, the address is:
>
> Mr A Lewendon
> Langstone
> Fryern Court Road
> Burgate
> Fordingbridge
> Hants SP6 1NG
> England
>
> Obviously members in India would be better off sending info directly
to the
> Museum Director. I don't have his address, so could someone post it
to the
> list, please.
>
> Peter Mosse

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: IR 1996/7 Year Book Statistics

Date: 11 Oct 1998 10:31:45 -0500


Following official IR info comes courtesy of Continental Railway
Journal:

Route-km: BG 41,971; MG 17,044; NG 3,710

Locos increased during the year from 6909 to 6967, but steam decreased
from
124 to 85, with two steam depots closing.

Obviously this info is now out-of-date, but it gives some idea of the
scale
of IR. In particular it will be interesting to see how the route-km
figures for BG and MG change in future years as the gauge conversion
program continues.

Peter Mosse

From: Julian.Rainbow <>

Subject: Re: Preserved Locomotives in India

Date: 11 Oct 1998 11:12:01 -0500


About three years ago while I was still at University I posted a list of
all locos that I knew about preserved in India, mainly Delhi and Mysore
Museums, I am not currently in a position to repost it, as I am at sea.
If
any of the older members such as Satish has it still, then could they
repost it. I will try and remember to post it when I reurn after break
in
late November/early December.

Julian




"Peter Mosse" <pjcm@worldnet.email on 10/11/98 04:36:48 PM

To: "Indian Railways List" <irfca@cs.email
cc: (bcc: Julian Rainbow/WGC/WAII)
Subject: Preserved Locomotives in India




There is an interesting note in the latest issue of 'Continental Railway
Journal' which I have just received. It reads as follows:

" Somewhat surprisingly, there is no official record of locos plinthed
in
India. To enable this oversight to be corrected, the National Railway
Museum is seeking sightings from enthusiasts. Any relevant notes from
CRJ
readers to the sub-editor will be forwarded to the Museum Director."

[ 'Plinthed', in case it isn't obvious, is British-enthusiastspeak for
taking a locomotive and sticking it on a short section of track on a
platform or in the station forecourt or somewhere else where it is no
longer connected to active running lines. ]

These notes should obviously provide as much of the basic info as
possible,
ie Location, Railway Company and Running Number, Type and Class of Loco,
Wheel Arrangement, Builder and Builder's Number, Year of Manufacture and
Year of Withdrawal.

I am sure that some members of this list can help the railway museum
here.
If anyone outside India wants to send info to CRJ, the address is:

Mr A Lewendon
Langstone
Fryern Court Road
Burgate
Fordingbridge
Hants SP6 1NG
England

Obviously members in India would be better off sending info directly to
the
Museum Director. I don't have his address, so could someone post it to
the
list, please.

Peter Mosse

From: Don Dickens <>

Subject: Re: Preserved Locomotives in India

Date: 11 Oct 1998 19:08:15 -0500


Email for NRM Director is lohani@ndb.email If you get any kind
of response from him you are doing better than I ever could with the
Patiala State Monorail pages. I have been told of material they have in
their archives but they didn't share as much as a dot.
Don Dickens

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Copper Canyon Railway

Date: 11 Oct 1998 19:08:54 -0500


Sorry for posting it on IR. Copper Canyon Railway is one
of the scenic route in Mexico. The Sunday Times in London
published an article about it today, i.e. October 11, 1998.
Please go to URL
<A HREF="http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html?141">http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html?141</A>
5061
select TRAVEL and then click on "Going Loco".

Prakash

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Preserved Locomotives in India

Date: 11 Oct 1998 19:11:35 -0500



Hi all,

I too have written to them regarding the PSM which Annie wants to model
but there is no reply. I am sorry Annie fo rthe delay caused.

Viraf.

On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, Don Dickens wrote:

> Email for NRM Director is lohani@ndb.email If you get any
kind
> of response from him you are doing better than I ever could with the
> Patiala State Monorail pages. I have been told of material they have
in
> their archives but they didn't share as much as a dot.
> Don Dickens
>

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: National Museum !

Date: 11 Oct 1998 21:59:14 -0500



Hi!

I would like to add the e-mail id of the museum:

nrm@nrm.email

Already tel.& fax. nos. are mailed by Shankar.

Bye

Shrinivas

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: National Museum !

Date: 11 Oct 1998 22:03:40 -0500




Hi!

Sorry, I thought Shankar has mailed the tel & fax. nos, but he has not
as ,what he is having are old nos. So mailing you the new ones.

Tel: 011-6881816
011-6880939

Fax: 011-6880804

Bye,

Shrinivas

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Steam Pics

Date: 11 Oct 1998 23:44:55 -0500


<A HREF="http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/asia.html">http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/asia.html</A>
My favourite bookmark:
Just updated with more Indian steam: must see !

Jayant S

From: P.Y.JOSHI <>

Subject: Travel by Shatabdi to Pune

Date: 12 Oct 1998 01:13:22 -0500



In last "SUNDAY MID DAY" ther was an article on Shatabdiabout Pune
journey
. Is any body is having it?. Can anybody send me a copy?
Thanks in advance.


P.Y. JOSHI

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