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From: Don Crouch <>

Subject: the mac experience

Date: 07 Oct 1998 12:57:58 -0500

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Northern Rail time table

Date: 08 Oct 1998 01:53:50 -0500


Hi gang,

I have promised to look up some quotas info for Vijay Balasubramian. To
my surprise I found that the new NR time table just does not have quota
information from various stations. I always believed that the quota
info was mandatory for any timetable, but not so in the NR TT.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Indian Railway Whistle Codes

Date: 08 Oct 1998 03:09:57 -0500


Interesting data from Sachin

Apurva

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Re: Northern Rail time table

Date: 08 Oct 1998 04:39:46 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Hi gang,
>
> I have promised to look up some quotas info for Vijay Balasubramian.
To
> my surprise I found that the new NR time table just does not have
quota
> information from various stations. I always believed that the quota
> info was mandatory for any timetable, but not so in the NR TT.

Help us poor North Americans here - what's meant by "quota?"

Thanks,
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

Isis, Isis, Ra Ra Ra!

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Northern Rail time table

Date: 08 Oct 1998 05:33:31 -0500


> > I always believed that the quota
> > info was mandatory for any timetable, but not so in the NR TT.
>
> Help us poor North Americans here - what's meant by "quota?"

Craig, I did not know that this was not as obvious. I guess this is
typical Indian terminology, the quota is the number of confirmed seats
or berths that are earmarked for passengers entraining at a station.
Example - Pune Jn has a quota of 40 berths in the 2 class sleeper on the
Mumbai - Kolhapur 7303 Dn Sahyandri Express towards Kolhapur but only 4
berths in the AC sleeper. This info is vital to know the 'capacity' of
a reserved train specially from an intermediate station. Any better
explanation of what the quota system is - anyone ?

Apurva

From: Sankaran Kumar <>

Subject: conversion questions

Date: 08 Oct 1998 11:00:39 -0500


Here are some conversion questions on the various zonal railways.

What is the present status of these (formerly?) MG lines?

Western Rly.

Bandikui-Bharatpur-Agra Fort
Mahesana-Viramgam
Rajkot-Veraval-Junagadh
Ahmedabad-Junagarh
Surendranagar-Bhavnagar
Palanpur-Gandhidham
Bhildi-Luni-Samdari-Jodhpur
Ajmer-Chittaurgarh-Indore-Khandwa
Chittaurgarh-Udaipur-Himatnagar- Ahmedabad

Northeastern Rly.

Aunrihar-Chhapra
Samastipur-Narkatiaganj
Muzaffarpur-Narkatiaganj-Bagaha
Agra Fort-Kanpur Central
Katihar-Banmankhi-Saharsa-Khagaria-Samastipur-Darbhanga-Madhubani-Jaynag
ar
Forbesganj-Saharsa
Gorakhpur-Gonda (Loop)
Gorakhpur-Thawe-Chhapra

Northern Rly

Delhi Sarai Rohilla- Loharu- Bikaner
Bikaner-Sriganganagar

South Central Rly.

Gadag-Solapur
Secunderabad-Nizamabad-Mudkhed
Khandwa-Akola-Purna
Londa-Marmagao (converted to BG but are passenger trains running?)

Could somone with the latest timetables, please check and provide the
info?

Thanks
Kumar






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From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Northern Rail time table

Date: 08 Oct 1998 11:37:54 -0500




Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> > > I always believed that the quota
> > > info was mandatory for any timetable, but not so in the NR TT.
> >
> > Help us poor North Americans here - what's meant by "quota?"
>
> Craig, I did not know that this was not as obvious. I guess this is
> typical Indian terminology, the quota is the number of confirmed seats
> or berths that are earmarked for passengers entraining at a station.
> Example - Pune Jn has a quota of 40 berths in the 2 class sleeper on
the
> Mumbai - Kolhapur 7303 Dn Sahyandri Express towards Kolhapur but only
4
> berths in the AC sleeper. This info is vital to know the 'capacity'
of
> a reserved train specially from an intermediate station. Any better
> explanation of what the quota system is - anyone ?
>
> Apurva

I'd just add that there are also "special" quotas - certain seats
reserved
for certain classes of travellers.
One of the most important of these for those of us outside-wallas is
"tourist" quota, a scheme where one
pays with dollars for one's tickets and presents a passport. Since this
brings dollars into India, the
government encourages it by giving a special quota.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: [Fwd: Re: Northern Rail time table

Date: 08 Oct 1998 11:42:08 -0500

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Re: Northern Rail time table

Date: 08 Oct 1998 12:29:59 -0500


Dheeraj and I had a discussion on the "disappearing quotas" some time
last
year. A look at the 97 WR time-table indicates that none of the
Computerized Stations show a quota allocation any more. We had
speculated,
that maybe the use of a central computer system means that the "booking"
aspect has no significance anymore. For instance, if one was to book a
ticket from Kanpur to Delhi - it would'nt matter whether one booked it
from
Kanpur, Delhi, Calcutta or Ahmadabad - provided all these stations had
access to the same system. However, IMO the "absolute quota" - i.e.
total
number of seats available FOR booking from Kanpur to Delhi should still
be
defined by a quota - but it is nowhere to be found ?!

On another note, I would disagree that "quotas" are an Indian concept.
One
hears them being mentioned often in the US - as an example, in the
context
of the debate on affirmative action.

-Pushkar

Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> > > I always believed that the quota
> > > info was mandatory for any timetable, but not so in the NR TT.
> >
> > Help us poor North Americans here - what's meant by "quota?"
>
> Craig, I did not know that this was not as obvious. I guess this is
> typical Indian terminology, the quota is the number of confirmed seats
> or berths that are earmarked for passengers entraining at a station.
> Example - Pune Jn has a quota of 40 berths in the 2 class sleeper on
the
> Mumbai - Kolhapur 7303 Dn Sahyandri Express towards Kolhapur but only
4
> berths in the AC sleeper. This info is vital to know the 'capacity'
of
> a reserved train specially from an intermediate station. Any better
> explanation of what the quota system is - anyone ?
>
> Apurva



--

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: Sankaran Kumar <>

Subject: Re: Hassan Mangalore route

Date: 08 Oct 1998 15:58:10 -0500






>Waiting for the BG conversion to be finished and off I go by the most
>interesting way to get to Mangalore.
>
>This MG lines must be one of the follies of the IR which spent so much
>money and efforts in making a line which eventually got converted to BG
>within a very short time.

My father-in-law who was involved in the Mangalore-Hasan project told me

that inspite of requests by the railways to sanction funds for a BG line

between Mangalore and Hasan, the ministry insisted that it be MG. The
only concession was that the bridges, tunnels etc. were built to BG
specs.

>Apurva Bahadur
>
Kumar
>


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From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Northern Rail time table

Date: 08 Oct 1998 21:59:39 -0500




Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

> Anne,
>
> How does this [tourist] fare in $ compare with the fare in Indian Rs.?
> Is it the same, slightly higher?
>
> Someone told me that for foreigners paying in $, the seat can
> be allocated almost instantaneously, even at the last moment,
> unless that quota has been filled up. Is it true?
>
> Prakash

The fare is the same as the Indian fare. You actually pay it in rupees,
you just have to present a passport and sufficient encashment
certificates
to cover it.
An encashment certificate is issued when dollars are converted to rupees
by a visitor. Then the visitor can show these certificates to cover
rupees
converted
back to dollars when leaving.
If not for this system, I'd have to convert to rupees for pocket money,
then
essentially
lose the balance when I left the country.
In practice, places that "should" mark off against encashment
certificates
(like the tourist
quota window at the RR station) rarely do.
It is true that you can get on the tourist quota almost to the last
moment,
but the tourist quota
fills up fairly frequently.
What is true is that, if you need to travel, you can run around just
before
the train leaves to
the various quota windows and sometimes they'll release an unused VIP
quota at
the last
minute.
Of course me, I travel on the hijra quota 8^) "are, bhai - hum hijre
hai.n,
hamse tikat mangna rivaj nahi hai.n.
Canoon hai ki admi aur aurat se tikat lena zarurat hai.n"


Annie

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Photos on IR

Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:20:56 -0500


Strange - I generally take an SLR, but rarely use it, since I
usually have my video gear with me. I've never been hassled taking
video of anything on the railway.

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Info. please

Date: 09 Oct 1998 01:22:50 -0500



Hi!

Please ,let me know if Kolar is connected by rail with Banglore.

Referred All India TT, couldn't find a table. I think earlier there was
MG, now what is the status?

Thanks in advance.

Bye

Shrinivas Joshi

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Photos and the IR

Date: 09 Oct 1998 02:01:05 -0500


Gang,

Bill Aitkin in one of his books suggests that the IR is touchy about
public taking pictures to hide their own inefficiency and bungling. I
tend to agree.
Century old buildings and quarter century old equipment do not deserve
the same laws (Official Secrets act - late 1800s I think) as military
installations and such.
Of all the rules the security forces on the IR are aware that pics are
not allowed without permit.
Avoid flash at all costs.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Photos and the IR

Date: 09 Oct 1998 05:01:09 -0500


Hello Apurva,

All this coming from you, my friend?

As you know, I am from Poona too. My brother and I have shot innumerable
pics at Poona--oops Pune-station, and have also been toDaund several
times trainspotting.

There was a time the shed foreman at Daund branded me a lunatic as I
wanted to shoot pictures in his shed! The driver of a ZE on the Baramati
line firmly dug his heels into the ground and firmly refused to let us
photograph the locomotive for fear of losing his job.

I am actually one of your secret admirers, and have forwarded your
webpages to my brother who is now in Kuwait.

All your pics of your wife Shama on the buffer beam of a WDM/2, and
those cab shots and all those daring shots at Miraj!

My brother and I have firmly branded you as one of the most daring
photographers of trains.My brother holds that you shoot your pics with a
lot more zip and daring. Some nerve that, he once told me.

And I thought I took risks.I bow my head before you.

Of course, after so many years here, I'm glad I can afford a zoom
compact and all. No way I am going to take even half the risks I used to
take even five years ago!

Keepup the good work.

Best regards.

Shankar






Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> Bill Aitkin in one of his books suggests that the IR is touchy about
> public taking pictures to hide their own inefficiency and bungling. I
> tend to agree.
> Century old buildings and quarter century old equipment do not deserve
> the same laws (Official Secrets act - late 1800s I think) as military
> installations and such.
> Of all the rules the security forces on the IR are aware that pics are
> not allowed without permit.
> Avoid flash at all costs.
>
> Apurva Bahadur

From: BSR SHARMA <>

Subject: Re: Hassan Mangalore route

Date: 09 Oct 1998 09:05:59 -0500


---Sankaran Kumar <sankaran_kumar@hotmail.email wrote:
> My father-in-law who was involved in the
Mangalore-Hasan project told me
> that inspite of requests by the railways to
sanction funds for a BG line
> between Mangalore and Hasan, the ministry insisted
that it be MG. The
> only concession was that the bridges, tunnels etc.
were built to BG
> specs.
>

The Hassan-Mangalore line was constructed as a MG
track BUT to BG Specifications. i.e. All bridges,
tunnels etc., were built to accommadate a BG line
which
they planned on coming. The only reason for not going
BG first time around was to provide continuity to
Bangalore through Arsikere (Mangala Express route).

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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Photos and the IR

Date: 09 Oct 1998 10:14:41 -0500


Shakar: I said no flash - who said no photography ? Pataoing the
railmen
is our dahine haat ka khel and I value their friendship. Why me, even my
wife Shyama has DRIVEN locos, and there are photographs to prove it -
where ?
on the Daund Baramati NG ! All courtesy our friends in the IR.

Wait till Sundar Krihnamurthy's site comes up - he will BLOW away any
other Indian Rail site and his pictures are really daring. He is only 22
and
obviously unmarried so is 'one track minded'. I do not know anyone else
who will walk 12 coaches while his train waits mid track at Palasdhari
so he
can take two pics of a WCM 5. And that is a world class pic. With a 600
bucks aim and shoot camera ! He is coming over to Pune this Sunday with
some
more pics. I can forward that WCM 5 pic by email to your system will
allow
it.
Let me know.

As far as 'my' daring pics go - if I am visible in the pics - these have
been actually taken by Shyama !

Thanks for the praise.

> Of course, after so many years here, I'm glad I can afford a zoom
> compact and all. No way I am going to take even half the risks I used
to
> take even five years ago!

This is knows as Middle age ! I know and suffer the symptoms all the
time !

Apurva

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Photos and the IR

Date: 09 Oct 1998 12:50:12 -0500


Folks,

I agree that IR crew can in general be 'pataoed' with a little effort.
Let me narrate an experienec from a few years ago. It was the Dec. 1989
and we were on a "Industrial Tour" during the winter break
(MAS-BLR-GOA-Bombay-Delhi-Hyderabad and back to Madras). The particular
leg of the tour was from BLR to Goa. The ostensible reason for visiting
Goa was the shipyard, where we spent exacty 15 minutes :-)

Anyway, at Londa I went to speak to the driver of the Golden Rock YDM4A
and with a little persuation he agreed to let me footplate the oncoming
'ghat' section. Little did he know what he was getting into. The news
spread quickly and at one point there were eight of us (not including
the
crew) in the loco, with four sitting on the walkway on the side of the
running loco. At this point the driver remarked that if some senior
official saw the train he would lose his job. In spite of our behaviour
they were nice enough to run down the features of the loco. He was,
however, a little dissapointed by the general lack of knowledge about
the
loco/trains considering that we were a year away from graduating from a
premier engineering institution!

The scenary was beautiful and this turned out a particularly interesting
part of the trip. I can only imagine that the crew did not get into
trouble as my cousing who was a year junior to me and his batch
was able to do the same a year later (they had seen our pictures!).

-Sridhar

****************************************************************

Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt.13A
GSB'99 Chicago, IL 60615
University of Chicago (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

From: Julian.Rainbow <>

Subject: Re: Northern Rail time table

Date: 09 Oct 1998 13:37:50 -0500


You can buy an Indian Railpass in many countries such as England and
Australia before you go and have all your reservations done upto one
year
in advance. The General Sales Agent for IR in England is SD
Enterprises
Ltd, Wembley park Road, London, for the exact address see Lonely Planets
India Guide or Royston Ellis's India by Rail. There is then no need to
queue, only to confirm your bookings when first arriving in India, and
to
check them at the station a couple of hours before the train arrives.
These passes are available to all people living outside India including
as
I understand it Indians who are non-resident in India. It is some time
since I have been thjere, but in 1991 a 30 day first class railpass cost
me
about GB Pounds 100. I had no problems with reservations etc not being
there for me.

Julian




Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email on 10/09/98 04:59:39 AM

To: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email
cc: "irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email (bcc: Julian
Rainbow/WGC/WAII)
Subject: Re: Northern Rail time table






Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

> Anne,
>
> How does this [tourist] fare in $ compare with the fare in Indian Rs.?
> Is it the same, slightly higher?
>
> Someone told me that for foreigners paying in $, the seat can
> be allocated almost instantaneously, even at the last moment,
> unless that quota has been filled up. Is it true?
>
> Prakash

The fare is the same as the Indian fare. You actually pay it in rupees,
you just have to present a passport and sufficient encashment
certificates
to cover it.
An encashment certificate is issued when dollars are converted to rupees
by a visitor. Then the visitor can show these certificates to cover
rupees
converted
back to dollars when leaving.
If not for this system, I'd have to convert to rupees for pocket money,
then
essentially
lose the balance when I left the country.
In practice, places that "should" mark off against encashment
certificates
(like the tourist
quota window at the RR station) rarely do.
It is true that you can get on the tourist quota almost to the last
moment,
but the tourist quota
fills up fairly frequently.
What is true is that, if you need to travel, you can run around just
before
the train leaves to
the various quota windows and sometimes they'll release an unused VIP
quota
at
the last
minute.
Of course me, I travel on the hijra quota 8^) "are, bhai - hum hijre
hai.n,
hamse tikat mangna rivaj nahi hai.n.
Canoon hai ki admi aur aurat se tikat lena zarurat hai.n"


Annie

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Photos on IR. (fwd)

Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:59:02 -0500



Good Morning Gang,

Reading all your mails on photographing IR I must say this that Sarosh &
I never had a problem photographing trains. We have done it several
times
even at busy junctions & sheds like Ahmedabad & Sabarmati. These days
just
to be safe and since we are very friendly with the C.P.R.O. staff on the

Western Railway we not only get the permission to shoot where ever we
want
but the Staff goes one step further and does bookings for us in the
railway retiring rooms all at their expense, ringing them up to
reconfirm
our bookings.

Its very touching to find the staff waiting to receive us at our
destinations
at times even after their duty is long over. Not to mention we are
sometimes
granted the the V.I.P. quota for our trip if there are no berths
available.

The drivers are mostly friendly and often take you onboard just to have
some company and will often share their food. They will also introduce
you to their fellow drivers often fixing you up with the driver of your
return trip.But there is this custom we always follow is that to click a

picture of the Crew and mail it back to them.

The C.P.R.O staff have appreciated one of our black & white photograph
of a YP which sarosh had clicked at sabarmati shed and has included it
in
their archives at Churchgate.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a scanner or I would have scanned
all our photographs for you to see.

Just a thought, can we all members compile our railway photographs in
a
book and publish it? Do we have to take a prior permission from the
railways.

Talking about taking friends in the cab - well I have managed 13 of my
Godrej collegues in a WCG banker from Lonavala to Karjat down the ghats.
Appu you were there at the Lonavala station to attend Model Railway
Society - Pune's meet there remember? And Shrinivas and Sarosh were
there in the cab with the whole lot.

Just a note to add, we never take undue advantage of the goodwill that
exists between the railway staff & us.

Regards
Viraf.

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