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From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: IRFCA needs publicity

Date: 02 Oct 1998 08:16:55 -0500




Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> Hi Gang,
>
> Over the last so many days I have been thinking that the IRFCA
needs
> more publicity. I was thinking that I should send a letter to the
editor
> to the main newspapers in the four metros and any others I can list. I
> want to inform the readers about the IRFCA and how to join/contribute.
> Today a we collect members by word of mouth only.
>

I don't know how effective that will be. More effective IMHO would be
to
submit a little article, about 250-300 words,
about the IRFCA, worldwide fans of IR, etc. That's more likely to see
print.

Another possibility is to put up a notice near the railway sheds! "email
iti@giaspn01.email for
info about the Indian rail fans mailing list".
It'd be great to have more folks on this list from within India.


>
> We need to see more members from the 'Internet ready' places in India
-
> New Delhi, Calcutta, Hyderabad so many other B & C grade cities. As
per
> a recent advert in the Times of India the whole Madhya Pradesh has
come
> under the internet map at the district level. Can you imagine what
sort
> of HOT news we are going to get if we can rope in members from these
> areas ?

> I would like to actively harvest the Indian railfans who have
> internet access (the number grows every day) and who find themselves
all
> alone with nobody to share their enthusiasm about the their interest.
> I want to know if any railnut (specifically the 'elders' of the
mailing
> list) has any objections or suggest a guideline to my writing to the
> editors about the IRFCA. Is there a maximum size that we can handle or
> are there any people best left out of the IRFCA ?
>

>
> Think about it.
>
> Apurva Bahadur

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Dhaka Ajmer train ? International train lovers - rejoice !

Date: 02 Oct 1998 08:24:52 -0500


>
>
> 52UR5 SPECIALS FOR PILGRIMS ATTIENDlNG 7861HE URS OF SUPHI
>
> SAINT KI-IWAJA MOINUDDIN CHISTY AT AJMER.
>
>

If those in India get a chance, check out this train. They always
provide a extra "ladies" coach or two to handle the large number of
hijras travelling (the Urs of Khwaja Gharib Namaz is one of our larger
festivals).
Shades of Bhajan coaches!

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: IR Power generation summary: first pass

Date: 02 Oct 1998 09:16:42 -0500


Thanks to every one who contributed all the terrific info on power
generation on IR - I for one learned a lot.

I am going to bravely attempt to summarize my understanding
in layman terms. There are still questions I have and mistakes I must
have made - please keep helping out...

---------------------------------------------------------------------

NON RAJDHANI/SHATABDI TRAINS:

Individual coaches are powered by axle-driven generators, which
operate as: mechanical motion of the train wheels -> powers a DC
dynamo -> charges storage batteries -> powers lights and fans @
24V. (Apurva, did you indicate 48V/110V DC ? )

For powering air-conditioned coaches, an alternator is needed to
convert the 110V DC output of the batteries to 3-phase 415V AC to
power the air-conditioner.

Questions:

(a) There must be a way of charging these batteries while the
train is resting in the yard - or else the rake will never have power
when it is brought in @ the originating station. How is this done?

(b) If axle driven generators are inefficient, as many have pointed
out, it would seem that using these to drive the high-voltage
Airconditioned coaches must be a remarkably inefficient operation -
comments? data?

(c) What percentage (even wildly approximate) of IR trains have the
more efficient AC alternators vs DC dynamos?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

RAJDHANI/SHATABDI TRAINS:

The generator in the "power car" generates 3-phase 415V AC power,
which is then distributed across the train.

Questions:

What are the factors in choosing the number of coaches to be serviced
by a generator car? I am guessing too few would be cost inefficient,
while too many may be out either due to capacity constraints or line
losses in transmission. Are there any studies or data of this
trade-off? Especially in the context of the comparitive efficiency of
axle-generators. (Gets back to my orig. question starting the thread).

---------------------------------------------------------------------

EMUs/MEMUs/DEMUs

Mumbai EMUs take power from the overhead 1500V DC line, use a motor
generator to convert it to 110V AC for powering lights and fans.
Lights and fans are also powered in some cases (e.g. DMUs) by
auxilliary generators in the locomotive. Diesel electrics generate
power @ 600V DC which is difficult to distribute.

QUESTION: How do MEMUs (EMUs running on 25 kV AC electrified lines)
power their lights and fans? Do they use a motor generator as well?

---------------------------------------------------------------------











Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: More timetables available for reference

Date: 02 Oct 1998 09:30:09 -0500


>Family visiting from Calcutta have got for me ER, NR and NEFR time
>tables. They 'forgot' to give me the SER time table until yesterday.
>So
>note these four time tables are available for reference over the
>internet if any one want a detail.
Since you asked for it, you got it :-). Could you please provide
answers to the following:
1. What is the quota alloted to Varansi for the N.Delhi-Patna
Rajdhani Exp.?
2. What are the halts for the Delhi-Muzaffarpur Swatantra Senani Exp.?
What are its arr./dep times at Delhi and Varanasi?
2. Does the Kurla-Howrah superPHAT exp. (excuse my cynicism) really have

those irritating halts at Chakradharpur, Kharagpur and Raipur? Are its
run times in the zonal TTs the same as in the TAAG?
3. Does the WR show Kota and Ratlam as passenger halts for the TVC
Raj?
4. What are the halts for the Bandra-Bikaner exp., the
Nizamuddin- Habibganj Exp. and the Howrah-Tiruchi Exp.?
5. When does the MAS-NDLS GT exp. arrive at NDLS? When does it depart
from Mathura?
6. Does the MCT - NDLS Rajdhani still reach NDLS at 9.55 am? Or has it
been speeded up?Thanks in advance,Vijay

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From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Bhajan coach

Date: 02 Oct 1998 10:20:39 -0500


Apurva,

Viraf is absolutely correct. It's a sheer nuiscence to travel
in such coach. Most of these folks are Gujratis (no, I'm not
against any community) and they start in Borivali local. One
may not understand this problem by standing near the tracks
and hearing them from a train passing by. Please take some
time and travel in such coach just a couple of times. I'm sure
Yeravada Mental facility is a better place to live on earth
than travelling in these coaches.

Prakash

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: More articles/images from the web

Date: 02 Oct 1998 10:22:58 -0500


Check these out

<A HREF="http://www.andhratoday.com/whatsup/MOBILEXI.HTM">http://www.andhratoday.com/whatsup/MOBILEXI.HTM</A>

<A HREF="http://www.dqindia.com/aug1597/3ih1061101.html">http://www.dqindia.com/aug1597/3ih1061101.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.ehlg.org/images/airfoyle1.gif">http://www.ehlg.org/images/airfoyle1.gif</A>

<A HREF="http://www.infoindia.com/bo/iw/ie00201.html">http://www.infoindia.com/bo/iw/ie00201.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.grandpolycoats.com/phrail.html">http://www.grandpolycoats.com/phrail.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.financialexpress.com/ie/daily/19980620/17150134.html">http://www.financialexpress.com/ie/daily/19980620/17150134.html</A>

Vijay

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From: Siddhartha Joshi <>

Subject: Re: Generators and compressors (old technology)

Date: 02 Oct 1998 10:24:17 -0500



> > I do not know of any Indian train with any form of heating. To the
> > best of my knowledge there are no heated trains in India.
> >
>
> I was traveling about India in the cold snap last december. I *KNOW*
> for a fact IR has no heated trains!

Yo.

All AC trains are of course heated in the winter time. The regular
trains
are not. Therefore a majority of the trains are not heated.

Sidd.

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: IR Power generation summary: first pass

Date: 02 Oct 1998 10:38:42 -0500



Pushkar,

> QUESTION: How do MEMUs (EMUs running on 25 kV AC electrified lines)
> power their lights and fans? Do they use a motor generator as well?


Does MEMU stand for "Modified" EMUs? If yes, 3000V DC EMUs from Calcutta
(MAN stock) were transferred to WR when 25 KV AC EMUs were introduced
on that line.

Although WCAM1 had Motor-Generator set, their AC counterpart did not.
Step down transformer performed this job.

I'm not familiar with AC EMUs to express a firm opinion but I would
expect "made for AC" EMUs to follow the same logic, i.e transformer.

Can someone clarify if SR MG EMUs were converted from DC to AC?

Prakash

From: John Hinson <>

Subject:

Date: 02 Oct 1998 11:50:03 -0500


Thanks to much help from Apurva, a web page describing single-line
instruments used on the Indian Railways can now be found at my web site
at
<A HREF="http://trainweb.com/signalbox/ab/single.htm">http://trainweb.com/signalbox/ab/single.htm</A>

(Two members of the IRFCA group have enquired about this - I apologise
to
one of these for having lost your email address or I would have been in
touch sooner)

John Hinson
________||_
/ \ at
/_____________\
|___________| The Signal Box
| | | | |
|__|__|__|__| <A HREF="http://trainweb.com/signalbox/">http://trainweb.com/signalbox/</A>
/| |
//| ===== |
// | |
|/ |_ _ _ _ |
--- o ---

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Re: IR Power generation summary: first pass

Date: 02 Oct 1998 12:04:25 -0500


Prakash,

The SR MG EMUs are indeed 25 kV AC jobs. As to when the conversion took
place I would have to say 1965, going by the date of introduction of
the
EMU stock YAU-1, an ICF-Nichoman(Japan)effort. The line was originally
electrified in 1931 at 1500 kV DC.

The MG loco YAM1 has a date first built of 1965 also.

-Sridhar

On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

>
> Pushkar,
>
> > QUESTION: How do MEMUs (EMUs running on 25 kV AC electrified lines)
> > power their lights and fans? Do they use a motor generator as well?
>
>
> Does MEMU stand for "Modified" EMUs? If yes, 3000V DC EMUs from
Calcutta
> (MAN stock) were transferred to WR when 25 KV AC EMUs were introduced
> on that line.
>
> Although WCAM1 had Motor-Generator set, their AC counterpart did not.
> Step down transformer performed this job.
>
> I'm not familiar with AC EMUs to express a firm opinion but I would
> expect "made for AC" EMUs to follow the same logic, i.e transformer.
>
> Can someone clarify if SR MG EMUs were converted from DC to AC?
>
> Prakash
>

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Delhi Metro

Date: 02 Oct 1998 12:04:44 -0500



From an AFP/ClariNet article dated Oct.2 that I saw:

... work for the first phase of the 2.7-billion-dollar Delhi Metro
Rail
Corp. (DMRC), to link the capital's east and northern districts,
began
"quietly" on Thursday.

The "quietly" refers to a lack of advertising and fanfare, for the
Election
Commission has asked the government not to draw attention to new
spending
or projects before the upcoming state elections.

The article goes on to say that the Delhi Metro will be 55 km (34 miles)
long (11km underground, 22km elevated, and the rest at ground level),
and is funded by a soft loan from Japan. It's supposed to get done by
2005.

--Satish

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: More articles from the web

Date: 02 Oct 1998 13:43:59 -0500


Check these out - Vijay

<A HREF="http://www.andhratoday.com/whatsup/MOBILEXI.HTM">http://www.andhratoday.com/whatsup/MOBILEXI.HTM</A>

<A HREF="http://www.dqindia.com/aug1597/3ih1061101.html">http://www.dqindia.com/aug1597/3ih1061101.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.ehlg.org/images/airfoyle1.gif">http://www.ehlg.org/images/airfoyle1.gif</A>

<A HREF="http://www.infoindia.com/bo/iw/ie00201.html">http://www.infoindia.com/bo/iw/ie00201.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19980824/23655024.html">http://www.expressindia.com/fe/daily/19980824/23655024.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.grandpolycoats.com/phrail.html">http://www.grandpolycoats.com/phrail.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/19980819/23151174.html">http://www.indian-express.com/ie/daily/19980819/23151174.html</A>

<A HREF="http://www.financialexpress.com/ie/daily/19980620/17150134.html">http://www.financialexpress.com/ie/daily/19980620/17150134.html</A>



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From: BSR SHARMA <>

Subject: Re: IR Power generation summary: first pass

Date: 02 Oct 1998 16:40:54 -0500


---Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email wrote:
> (a) There must be a way of charging these batteries
>while the train is resting in the yard - or else the
>rake will never have power when it is brought in @
>the originating station. How is this done?

If I remember right, Some "Important" stations have
charging poles next to track (just like water supply
valves). A thick cable is attached to the terminals
on the battery pack (below carriage).

B.S.R.Sharma

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From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 02 Oct 1998 19:42:37 -0500


Appu,

> Have you ever stood by the rail tracks (say at Khar road / Jogeshwari
or
> any 'slow train only' station) while an EMU with the Bhajan party goes
> by at speed. The loud singing and banging makes you want to believe in
> God.
--- I would love to reply to this but this will be beyond our Railway
Talk
so I'll avoid.

Since I do not live in Mumbai and not have to face this type of EMU
> on a daily basis, I find the Bhajan party in the EMUs very
interesting.
> Our sylvan Pune sadly has no collection of such colourful and devoted
> people.
--- Sadly Appu these people are neither Colorful nor devoted. They sing
Bhajans to while away their time. But these same Bajan singing people
can
be ruffians too for I have seen them bodyly throwing a person on the
platform who had objected to their singing and showering him with
choiciest of abuses.

The Bhajan Mandalis seem to be more prevalent on the WR rather
> than the CR, is that right Viraf ?
>
No they are found on both the railways.

Viraf
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject:

Date: 02 Oct 1998 19:55:39 -0500


There were a few postings about running trains between
India and Pakistan.

This morning, a friend of mine, who knows that I am a
Railfan and would jump at any news related to IR, sent
me a URL that has been pasted at the end. The article says:

"In the 1965 war, Pakistan has stolen 12 railway engines and
60 cargo coaches of the Indian Railways. There was direct
train service then, and the trains which went in Pakistan
before the outbreak of war, were never returned by Pakistan."

Normally, I would not pay much attention to unsubstantiated
claims. I looked at Indian Locomotives Part 4 by Hugh Hughes
to see if there is any reference. Under Pakistan Railway,
page 90, there is atleast one WDM2 that belonged to India and
has been re-numbered 3770 by Pakistan Railways.

This FYI only.

Prakash

<A HREF="http://www.bharatonline.com/articles/milind/290998.htm">http://www.bharatonline.com/articles/milind/290998.htm</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Generators and compressors (old technology)

Date: 02 Oct 1998 20:14:57 -0500


> >
> > Some of the Neral Matheran NG coaches have NO lighting while the
newer
> > coaches with the 'Greenhouse' windows have 'total loss' battery fed
> > lighting.
>
> What's meant by "total loss" lighting?

Et tu Annie ? I thought you would know - lighting system that is going
only the discharge way - with no means to recharge the batteries in the
vehicle except static charger in the home shed. Short term solution.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Strange Train

Date: 02 Oct 1998 20:19:44 -0500


Just saw three locos coupled together on the main line towards Mumbai.
The lead loco was a WCAM 3 (no 21953) while the two locos in two were
dead. The one in the center was a WCM 1 (no 20066) and the last loco was
a WCAM 3 (no 21885). The last loco had a 'LV' plate and the trio looked
all set to go places - they were on the main line, they had an advanced
starter ( near the Sangam bridge) in the yellow position (proceed with
caution- the L18 Up Lonavala local had just left on the same tracks -
L18 would have a stop at the next station - Shivaji Nagar) and were in
fair bit of speed. Must be going to Kalyan shed.
The last WCAM 3 had very unusual colors (for a WCAM 3) of the old time
WCM 1 / 2 / 5 - cream and dark blue. All other WCAM 3a are Orange and
yellow liveried. It also had large maker's plates - BHEL on the sides of
the cab. Other (newer ?) WCAM 3s have "on lease from BHEL' plates on
their sides. The last WCAM 3 must be the oldest models we have judging
from the number (21885).

Apurva Bahadur

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: IR Power generation summary: first pass

Date: 02 Oct 1998 20:27:58 -0500


>
>
> Does MEMU stand for "Modified" EMUs?

No Prakash they stand for MAINLINE ELECTRICAL MULTIPLE UNITS.

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Generators and compressors (old technology)

Date: 02 Oct 1998 21:24:36 -0500


Apurva -
In the US, "total loss" is a slang term for something really bad -
"that movie was a total loss".
No, I didn't know.

Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> > >
> > > Some of the Neral Matheran NG coaches have NO lighting while the
newer
> > > coaches with the 'Greenhouse' windows have 'total loss' battery
fed
> > > lighting.
> >
> > What's meant by "total loss" lighting?
>
> Et tu Annie ? I thought you would know - lighting system that is going
> only the discharge way - with no means to recharge the batteries in
the
> vehicle except static charger in the home shed. Short term solution.
>
> Apurva

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Bhajans?

Date: 02 Oct 1998 21:39:59 -0500




Hi!

I fully agree with Viraf, all this Bhajan singing groups are as
troublesome
as the card playing groups on the locals in Mumbai. Be it on CR or WR
the
story is the same.

Sometime back there was check on card playing but non on the Bhajan
singers,
may be it could have hurt their sentiments.(That may be govt.angle of
thinking)
Some strict measures should be taken by rly authorities.

Shrinivas

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