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From: Julian.Rainbow <>

Subject: New Book on Indian Rialways Diesels and Electrics

Date: 26 Aug 1998 18:47:40 -0500



(subscript: A Guide to the Diesel and Electric Locomotives of Indian
Railways.)


(subscript: About This Book)

(subscript: This book collects together in easily readable form
information
on all Indian Railways diesel and electric locomotives. The coverage
includes the early designs of the 1920's and 1930's, those of the 1950's
and 1960's including some now being withdrawn after long service, and
the
latest locomotives using new technology. Many of these have been
designed
and made in India. The book has 64 pages of descriptions and technical
data, with additional information on numbers and colour schemes.
Illustrated with 15 pages of diagrams and 36 photographs.)(subscript:
)

(subscript: About the Author)

(subscript: Mr Jal E Daboo, M.A.)

(subscript: The author spent most of his school and university years
in
Bombay. After completing his university and post-graduate education
in
England, he worked until retirement in the UK aerospace industry as
an
engineer and later as technical director. Family and business
connections
have enabled him to make frequent visits to India.)

(subscript: He has a continuing interest in the railways of India. He
is a
member of BORHT, the Continental Railway Circle, the Indian Railways
Study
Group (now defunct) and the Swiss Railways Society. Articles written
by
him have been published by these organisations and by
"Continental
Modeller" magazine. He remains in contact with railway enthusiasts
in
India, particularly the Model Railway Society of Pune)


(subscript: The book may be ordered from )

(subscript: British Overseas Railways Historical Trust)
(subscript: 260 Wricklemarsh Road)
(subscript: Blackheath)
(subscript: London SE3 8DW)

(subscript: UK Price including p&p is ?9.40)
(subscript: Overseas surface mail ?9.80)
(subscript: Overseas airmail ?10.80)

(subscript: Please make all UK cheques and POs payable to BORHT.
American
Dollar cheques should be made payable to Dr P.E. Waters and sent to
the
same address. We regret that we cannot accept credit cards.)

From: Julian.Rainbow <>

Subject: Re: Dreamers, Technophiles, and the Purpose of IRFCA

Date: 26 Aug 1998 20:11:05 -0500


Sorry if you have all heard this already, but I have only just rejoined
IRFCA after 2 years without email. There is now a Friends of National
Rail
Museum, in Delhi. Having seen two of their newsletters they seem to be
having some influence on preservation in India. Certainly they seem to
have the support of the Railway Board. I do not have their address
handy
as I am on board ship off Port Harcourt, Nigeria and did not bring such
stuff down with me, but if anyone wants it I will try and get someone in
England to email it to me.

I was interested to read about the Pune Club sponsoring commercial
models,
are these HO? I brought a model of a WDM of Mrs Joshi of the club some
years ago, but it was certainly not HO. Does anyone have more details
of
what has been produced and how to obtain them?

Julian




"Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath" <kjw_meh@powerup.email on 27/08/98
01:04:54 AM

To: apte@spdc.email
cc: "IRFCA - mailing list" <irfca@cs.email (bcc: Julian
Rainbow/WGC/WAII)
Subject: Re: Dreamers, Technophiles, and the Purpose of IRFCA




Dear Pushkar,
I agree that it would be nice to be able to influence IR in various
ways. My own concerns relate to preservation, not merely of steam
operated
lines or obscure narrow-gauge mountain railways, but also (and perhaps
more
importantly) of historical artefacts, especially engineering drawings,
technical information, and so on. These tend to be ignored or neglected
by
Arts-trained librarians, and are often just BURNT.
But I wonder if an on-line discussion group is the right launch
pad. I
belong to two or three, but I value them as points of contact, from
which I
can find out about things I need to know, or make contact with people
with
common interests. I sympathise with Vijay's and Dheeraj's concerns about
the
drift away from discussion (but remember, we all have periods when we
have
to neglect things in order to finish others!)
Lobbying large bureaucracies or giant firms is generally most
successful if it is undertaken by organised societies, on the ground,
preferably favourably known to the organisation being lobbied. A tall
order?
Yes, but one you have to meet if you want to be effective.
Railways as a hobby interest is still in its infancy in India, but
as
long ago as 1973, I remember encountering interest -- and passion --
among
many railway officers as well as members of the public. Perhaps it's
time
for IRFCA to spawn some actual organisations, built around various
worthwhile activities. This could also channel some of the centrifugal
forces. Don't forget that most Western countries have Rail Users (or
Passengers, or whatever ... ) organisations, along with clubs dedicated
to
preserving particlar railways, making models, studying railway history,
and
many other wrinkles. (There's even a global Ticket Collector's club,
which
exchanges tickets from all over). In India, the Pune Railway Club
already
exists and has even sponsored some commercial models, I believe. There
is
also the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Heritage Foundation, which needs a
supporting club; I have no details, but I believe that there is a
serious
preservation movement afoot to keep a nucleus of MG steam engines and
run
them on IR lines. So there's a start. Organisations mean effort, of
course,
but they have a marvellous way of building up their own momentum, and
some
consider them fine training for "civic responsibility" and suchlike
guff.
Think on't
Cheers from
Ken Walker
(Up to HIS eyebrows in models and the DHRS[A])

-----Original Message-----
From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Cc: dheeraj@iitk.email <dheeraj@iitk.email vijay_642@hotmail.email
<vijay_642@hotmail.email
Date: Thursday, 27 August 1998 8:34
Subject: Dreamers, Technophiles, and the Purpose of IRFCA

>I think Dheeraj and Vijay bring up a good point here: even among the IR
fans
>there is some divergence of interests. That is only natural, for as
they
say
>- different strokes for different people! Two categories seem to be
out
>there: the "technophiles" and the "dreamers". But by no means are
these
>mutually exclusive: I would put myself among the dreamers, but like
Dheeraj
>says, I have soaked up (and enjoyed) tremendous technical information
from
>knowledgeable posters over the past year or two. I agree that it would
be
>nice if we had more sustained discussion threads on the dreamer side as
well:
>about new services, thought trains, routing, scheduling etc. - but I
>recognize that one cannot force this to happen - it must happen of its
on
>accord, or not at all. In any case, I think we need both dreamers and
>technophiles interacting to make a positive difference: I would like
to
give
>the analogy of Intel. Most people know that Intel is one of the most
>successful companies of our time (it is my company's competitor, but
one
must
>acknowledge facts :-)). Intel is run by Andy Grove and Craig Barrett
at
the
>top, of whom Andy Grove is the "dreamer", concerned with strategic
vision,
>market planning, and so forth, while Craig is the operations or "nuts
and
>bolts" guy. In many interviews, they have both said that without them
>working together, Intel would not be where it is today.
>
>I want to use this analogy to make a broader, philosophical point about
the
>"Purpose of IRFCA". So far we have been a forum for discussion, but we
have
>NOT harnessed the power of so many diverse individuals interacting with
the
>love of Indian railways to make any real CHANGE. Dheeraj has pointed
out
the
>difficulties of the Railway bureaucracy in making things happen: I
throw
this
>out as a suggestion and a question - is there some way that we can
harness
>the power of this group to bring about positive change that everyone
cares
>about? Like maybe an official routing locator that Dheeraj mentioned,
or
the
>saving of steam line or causing the introduction of a new train???
Maybe
>this is a pipe-dream, but the use of IRFCA as an ENTITY to induce
change
is
>something that needs to be at least discussed. How does one go about
doing
>this? Any ideas? Also, going forth in this direction will unite the
>technophiles and dreamers in purpose, rather than have a divisive
effect
on
>IRFCA.
>
>Comments?
>
>-Pushkar
>

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Hi!

Date: 26 Aug 1998 21:32:42 -0500



Hi Folks,



I read about this mail id of yours, yes I too am interested to know
about
railways around the world. So please include me in the mailing list of
yours.

Thanking you ,

Shrinivas Joshi

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Nepal railways

Date: 26 Aug 1998 22:39:14 -0500


Anne Ogborn wrote:
>
> Looking at the Railways map of India, I see there's a 0.76 M line
> from Raxaul to Amlekhganj in Nepal.
>
> Anybody know more about ths line? Should be spectacular!

The only other thing I know about this line is that it
ran some Garrett steam locos at one time.
--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

From: VIRAL DESAI <>

Subject: Re: Purpose of IRFCA

Date: 26 Aug 1998 23:32:09 -0500


HI folks ,
I have with me the TRAINS AT GLANCE time table updated upto 15 th August
,
I am writing the chages which I have found :

(I Don't know the station codes ,so i am writing the full names)
Banglore rajdhani :Twice a Week (1,6 Ex Nizz ,1,3 Ex SBC)
DEP Nizz: 20 50
Secunderabad ARR;: 1905
dep : 1920
SBC Arr : 0655

SBC dep: 1835
Sec : Arr : 0630
dep 0645
Nizz Arr :0505


2) Nizzamuddin - Habibganj SF exp 2156

Dep Nzz: 2255
Arr Bhopal : 0835
habibganj Arr : 0900

2155
Dep Habibganj 2115
Arr Bhopal 2125
Dep Bhopal 2133
Arr Nizz : 0755

Stoppages at vidisha,Jhansi,Gwalior


3)2102 HWH -Kurla super Deluxe Exp(on 6)
Dep HWH : 0600
Arr Kharagpur:0748
Dep Kharagpur:0750

Arr Tatanagar: 0950
Dep Tatanagar : 0955


Arr Chakradharpur:1058
Dep Chakradharpur:1100

Arr Raurkela:1235
Dep : 1240

(Between Raurkela and HWH it share timming with Raurkela Shatabdi)
Arr Bilaspur:1720
dep 1730
Raipur :1905
1910

durg : 2010
2015

nagpur: 0030
0040

Bhusaval :0630
0640

Igatpuri : 1100
1115
Kalyan : 1310
1315
Kurla ; 1400
2101 KLA -HWH
Kurla Dep : 2020
kalyan 2112:2117
Igatpuri:2305:2325
bhusaval :0345:0355
Nagpur:0950:1000
Durg: 1355:1400
Raipur:1435:1440
bilaspur:1625:1635
Raurkela:2117:2122
Chakradhrpur:2258:2300
Tatanagar:0020:0025
Kharagpur:0240:0242
HWH:0515

2103 KLA-NGP

same timmings as of KLA-HWH.

2104 NGP-KLA

NGP:1815
Arr Bhusaval:0010:0020
Igatpuri:0445:500
Kalyan: 1310:1315
KLA;1400


AS I CAN OBSERVE NO NEW TRAIN TIMMINGS OF KLA-VARANASI HAS BEEN GIVEN

There is a new train Bet. Secunderabad-tirupati (weekly , SF)
Dep sec: 1900 Tiru: arr 0740
Dep tiru: 1610 arrr Sec 0350

4 days a week Bandra-Bikaner Exp.

dep bandra:1510
arr jodhpur:1030:1045
arr bikaner :1540

bikaner:0940
jodhpur:1450:1510
arr:bandrA:1145
(BETWEEN ADI-Bandra it stops at only Vadodara,Surat,Valsad)



Trivandrum Rajdhani :
Stoppages of this Train shows only Vasai and Vadodara as commercial
halts on
WR
and it also stops at sawantwadi Rd.

CST-NGP Vidharbha Exp has been made superfast.

Mangla exp
dep Nizz:0955
Kalyan: 1125:1130
panvel:1225:1230
madgaon 2115:2125
kankanadi0220:0230
ernakulam 1230

ernakulam 1215
kankanadi2325:2335
madgaon 0433;0443
panel:1350:1355
kalyan 1455:1500
Nizz: 1540



There is a train from Porbandar to Delhi Sarai Rohilla (Weekly)

Broad gauge timming of Vaigai Exp (There is a note that trains will run
after the opening of Trichy-dindigul BG Section)

2635 egmore-Madurai
1230
arr madurai :2230

Madurai Dep 1500
egmore Arr. 0520

There is a new HWH-Trichy exp.
which runs via Egmore.

those are the changes which I can observe at the moment , I' ll keep
you
all posted if I find something new.

I think in yesterdays paper here in B'bay there was this news that
Avantika
Exp will again start running from Bombay Central , but will have one
sleeper
and one general bogies less due to the problem of stretch of platfrom at
BCT.

Due to this Dehradun Exp has been Shifted to Bandra terminus.


Bye,
Viral

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Purpose of IRFCA

Date: 27 Aug 1998 00:03:00 -0500


>
> But just like you, I miss the "non-technical" discussions, about
> things that most of us could relate to. About the services,
> timetables, memorable journeys, dreaming about new trains, and so on.
>
> I also wish there would be some more discussions on such things,
> without, of course, reducing the "technical" information on the list.

Strange - One person's "technical" is another's "non-technical".
I know something about railways and how they work, but I actually
know little about the Indian Railways. I try to follow the timetable
discussions, but I don't have a timetable, so ???
Maybe completing the arrangements to get timetables to the US that
was discussed is a help.

> but an
> > important and a very interesting area has been grossly neglected,
> > namely, IR timetables and scheduling.
>

So enter the "Rails to the West" contest!

Those of us "bahar" are at a disadvantage, bhai! Hamara ghar ke pas
bharati
relghari nahi a rahe hai.n!
Aap bharati logo ko zarurat hai.n ki foto web per ruk dijiye, vagara.
agar
to ham kaise karega?

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: LIFE ON THE RAILS.

Date: 27 Aug 1998 00:13:18 -0500


Hi gang,
At the outset let me tell my friends Vijay and Dheeraj that whatever
information they needed from the time table unfortunately could not be
given since I am busy with work. Once I am free I will post you all the
details. However for your info the Kurla Howrah Super Deluxe Ac express
will depart from Mumbai at 20.20 and will reach Howrah at 4.10 am with
halts at kalyan, kasara igatpuri ( all tech halts) then Bhusawal,
Nagpur,
Durg, Bilaspur, Raipur, Rourkela, Chakradharpur Tatanagar( at 00.10 hrs)
then on to Kharagpur and Howrah.

I had gone to BHUSAWAL for personal work and thoroughly enjoyed the
TRIP on my favourite section of Igatpuri Bhusawal Well whilst going had
taken the Gitanjali from Mumbai and it was headed by the usual WCAM 3
AND
FROM IGATPURI IT WAS WAP 2 FROM TATANAGAR SHED. The train was moving at
a
good speed of about 120kmph between igatpuri and Bhusawal. There was
another WAP 4 stationed at Igatpuri shed which was from Ghaziabad and
was
to be attached later in the day to the 2137 dn Punjab mail from Mumbai.

On return I caught the vidharba exp 2105 dn from bhusawal headed by WAM4
6p from Ajni shed in Nagpur. The train has beautiful livelry with paint
from asian paints on trial basis and the paint is known as adura paint.
The wiring and the toilet fittings were all concealed and this was a
prototype coach made in collab with Indo - German technology. The
toilet
in the coach was unique as one couldn't see the track from the coach and
was clean for once.

Whilst at Bhusawal I SAW THE PATNA KURLA EXP WHICH WAS RUNNING
9 HRS LATE ! (AFTER ALL A TRAIN FROM BIHAR ! THE GREAT STATE OF INDIA )
Whilst waiting at Igatpuri I saw the 1404 up Manmad kurla express with a
WCAM 3 from Manmad. On further enquiry it was revealed that all trains
to
Manmad are with the loco from Mumbai. What they do at Igatpuri is lower
the Panto and then raise the leading panto.
Any comments would be welcome from the group.
PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Purpose of IRFCA

Date: 27 Aug 1998 00:36:56 -0500


>
> But just like you, I miss the "non-technical" discussions, about
> things that most of us could relate to. About the services,
> timetables, memorable journeys, dreaming about new trains, and so on.
>
> I also wish there would be some more discussions on such things,
> without, of course, reducing the "technical" information on the list.

Strange - One person's "technical" is another's "non-technical".
I know something about railways and how they work, but I actually
know little about the Indian Railways. I try to follow the timetable
discussions, but I don't have a timetable, so ???
Maybe completing the arrangements to get timetables to the US that
was discussed is a help.

> but an
> > important and a very interesting area has been grossly neglected,
> > namely, IR timetables and scheduling.
>

So enter the "Rails to the West" contest!

Those of us "bahar" are at a disadvantage, bhai! Hamara ghar ke pas
bharati
relghari nahi a rahe hai.n!
Aap bharati logo ko zarurat hai.n ki foto web per ruk dijiye, vagara.
agar
to ham kaise karega?

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: How many time tables are needed ?

Date: 27 Aug 1998 04:32:38 -0500


Hello Gang,

I can only feel guilty as I read the mails of the last so many days. I
am in Pune India where I can buy a time table across the counter (when
available) while many of you are in far away lands with no access to
these precious books. I would like all of you who desire a time table
(All India abstract - Trains at a Glance, to start with) to send me a
mail directly (outside the IRFCA) with your snail address and let me see
what can be done about sending them to you. You pay me only the cost of
the time table, mailing and some handling charges. There are 9 zonal
time tables for the 9 railway zones and an all India abstract. All the
zonal time tables are not available in Pune so the all India abstract
seems to be good general time table.
I do not promise you anything, but in my heart I do want to see that all
of you, who need a time table, should get one. I have not thought about
how these books will be delivered to you nor how the payment be given to
me (in all different currencies !) or any other legal hurdle. If you
have any suggestions on this front, let me know.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Train service required

Date: 27 Aug 1998 04:32:48 -0500


Hi Gang,

Yesterday Dr. Shirish Yande and I discussed an achievable 'dream'
train. Mumbai as many of you are aware has a Central as well as Western
Rail corridor. We at Pune are part of Central Railways. However many of
our friends are 'homed' in Mumbai on the WR And that too in far flung
suburbs like Andheri, Goregaon and Borivali. To reach the WR from the CR
and vice versa, one needs to change the systems from Dadar (Central -
DR) to Dadar (Western -DDR), which is a huge waste of time and
inconvenient. I must confess that the last few times I have gone a
visiting to Goregaon, I have taken the Air conditioned bus service which
picks me up and drops me very near from where I want to go. -
Disgusting, isn't it ?
Apart from the Dadar (walking) ling, there exists a rail link between
Dombivali and Vasai (the BSR link) which transfers trains from South
India via Pune to Western Rail like Pune - Ahmedabad Ahimsa Express etc.
The used to be trains like Rajkot - Trivandrum, Gandhinagar -
Trivandrum, Rajkot - Cochin etc which also used this link, but that is
history now due to Konkan Railway. This link is single line electrified
section, some 54 Kms long (?) and has triangles at the Dombivali end as
well as the Vasai end allowing entry and exit in any direction without
reversing. There are 3 stations en route.
Our dream train would take a slot near the 1010 Up Sinhagad Exp which
leaves Pune at 0605 to reach Mumbai CSTM at 1010, the 1009 Dn. departs
CTSM at 1430 to reach Pune at 1905 hrs. After Kalyan, our dream train
leaves the CR mainline and enters the BSR link at Dombivali. It reaches
Vasai in an hours time and then stops at Borivali, Goregaon, Andheri to
terminate at Bandra Terminus. This does not come in the way of much
suburban traffic while servicing the needs of huge hordes of junta
between the western suburbs of Mumbai and Pune. This would be the only
train on the BSR actually turning back towards Mumbai - currently all
trains turn north towards Gujarath.

Our fellow railnuts from Borivali like Viraf can confirm that the BSR
link has a triangle at the Vasai end. I am sure Viraf will be the first
one to use this train. Any comments ?

Apurva

PS: The Dombivali - Vasai is not the only rail link between Central and
the Western Rail in Mumbai - there exist a small crossover in the Parel
yard. Once the NDLS - MCT Rajdhani Exp used this link to get to Mumbai
Central as the Western Rail link was down due to some mishap. A senior
electric driver of the Mumbai division who is also trained on WDM2
guided the train from Igatpuri to MCT. This was in the 1970s when the
BSR link was not built yet.

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Re: How many time tables are needed ?

Date: 27 Aug 1998 07:58:37 -0500


Hi Apurva:

Glad to see your posting about this as I am definitely interested in any
timetables you can find (except Trains at a Glance). I have no recent
IR
timetables at the moment, and I have only ever managed to find SER, NR
and
WR tt's in the past (plus Trains at a Glance).

In my earlier posting, I suggested that it might make sense for someone
in
India who can obtain tt's (eg you !) to send them in bulk to someone
outside India for local distribution. The reason I suggested this was
so
that the person outside India could collect payments from the other
people
in that country and then send ONE payment to India, rather than have
everybody overseas sending individual payments to India. This is on the
assumption that it would be necessary to buy a rupee bank draft to send
to
India. It is a waste of time and money for a bunch of people each to
have
to go to a bank to buy a small denomination rupee draft and then send it
to
India rather than simply mailing a check in their own currency to one
person who would then buy a larger rupee draft on behalf of everybody.
At
least that's what I think !!

I also said that I would be happy to take on the role of distributing
the
tt's in the US - but I would also be very happy if somebody else wanted
to
do this. The important thing, however, is to get it done !

Peter Mosse


----------
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
> To: IRIZ <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: How many time tables are needed ?
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 7:32 AM
>
> Hello Gang,
>
> I can only feel guilty as I read the mails of the last so many days. I
> am in Pune India where I can buy a time table across the counter (when
> available) while many of you are in far away lands with no access to
> these precious books. I would like all of you who desire a time table
> (All India abstract - Trains at a Glance, to start with) to send me a
> mail directly (outside the IRFCA) with your snail address and let me
see
> what can be done about sending them to you. You pay me only the cost
of
> the time table, mailing and some handling charges. There are 9 zonal
> time tables for the 9 railway zones and an all India abstract. All the
> zonal time tables are not available in Pune so the all India abstract
> seems to be good general time table.
> I do not promise you anything, but in my heart I do want to see that
all
> of you, who need a time table, should get one. I have not thought
about
> how these books will be delivered to you nor how the payment be given
to
> me (in all different currencies !) or any other legal hurdle. If you
> have any suggestions on this front, let me know.
>
> Apurva

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Trains at a Glance

Date: 27 Aug 1998 08:10:06 -0500


Apurva Bahadur's recent mention of Trains at a Glance reminded me that a
few year's ago I was able to obtain a copy of the then current issue
from
the Indian Govt Tourist Office in New York.

I will check with them next time I go past their offices (probably later
this week or early next week) and see if they have any copies available
at
the moment. I will then post appropriate information on the list.

If they do have some copies, then I can buy some and send them to people
in
the US who are interested. This may be easier than obtaining them from
India. [ Of course the Tourist Office may NOT have the most recent
issue.
]

Peter Mosse

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Re: Train service required

Date: 27 Aug 1998 08:36:37 -0500


> leaves Pune at 0605 to reach Mumbai CSTM at 1010, the 1009 Dn. departs
> CTSM at 1430 to reach Pune at 1905 hrs. After Kalyan, our dream train
> leaves the CR mainline and enters the BSR link at Dombivali. It
reaches
> Vasai in an hours time and then stops at Borivali, Goregaon, Andheri
to
> terminate at Bandra Terminus. This does not come in the way of much

Hey, I think this is a cool idea - it will be indeed a big boon for
passengers on the WR side to commute to and from Pune. It is a bigger
adventure to travel within Mumbai than it is to travel long-distance,
because in the latter case you actually might have a reserved seat!

> PS: The Dombivali - Vasai is not the only rail link between Central
and
> the Western Rail in Mumbai - there exist a small crossover in the
Parel
> yard. Once the NDLS - MCT Rajdhani Exp used this link to get to Mumbai
> Central as the Western Rail link was down due to some mishap. A senior

There is also the famous Ravli (sp?) junction link just South of
Wadala station on CR Harbor line. This was the site of possibly
the worst accident in Mumbai's suburban train history. Anyway, a
train from Pune could come on the CR mainline until Kurla, then head
off on harbor line, and then turn around at Wadala to head for WR via
Kings Circle, and Mahim Jn. I am not sure if the train needs to
reverse directions at Wadala or whether there is a triangle -bypass of
Wadala that would avoid the reverse. I understand that many goods
trains used to use this route before the BSR link.

On other notes, thanks to Poras and Viral for the timings and info
about the new Time-table -we really appreciate your taking the time to
post this stuff. The new Kurla-Howrah exp seems a curious beast. It
is not symmetrical in Up and down - it is more like the
Mumbai-Bangalore exp via Belgaum which makes the down journey in 2
nts-1 day, waits @ Bangalore for a day and then starts back the foll.
morning. This one does the same with Howrah. It would appear that
the timings for Nagpur on the return journey will not be too
convenient...

Finally, this upstart Trivandrum Rajdhani is really getting one's goat
- to upstage the venerable Mumbai Rajdhani on its own turf with only
one commercial halt of Vadodara between Delhi and Mumbai? And screw
up so many WR superfasts to boot? Terrible!

-Pushkar
-------

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: How many time tables are needed ?

Date: 27 Aug 1998 08:48:31 -0500


>Hi Apurva:
>
>Glad to see your posting about this as I am definitely interested in
any
>timetables you can find (except Trains at a Glance). I have no recent
IR
>timetables at the moment, and I have only ever managed to find SER, NR
and
>WR tt's in the past (plus Trains at a Glance).

>
>In my earlier posting, I suggested that it might make sense for someone

in
>India who can obtain tt's (eg you !) to send them in bulk to someone
>outside India for local distribution. The reason I suggested this was
so
>that the person outside India could collect payments from the other
people
>in that country and then send ONE payment to India, rather than have
>everybody overseas sending individual payments to India. This is on
the
>assumption that it would be necessary to buy a rupee bank draft to send

to
>India. It is a waste of time and money for a bunch of people each to
have
>to go to a bank to buy a small denomination rupee draft and then send
it to
>India rather than simply mailing a check in their own currency to one
>person who would then buy a larger rupee draft on behalf of everybody.

At
>least that's what I think !!
>
>I also said that I would be happy to take on the role of distributing
the
>tt's in the US - but I would also be very happy if somebody else wanted

to
>do this. The important thing, however, is to get it done !
>
>Peter Mosse
>
Thanks Apurva and Peter for volunteering to take up this job. I am sure

it will be a worthwhile effort since there are quite a few of us here
who would like to get hold of these beauties. I, for one, am willing to

pay for ALL available timetables (zonal rlwys.+TAAG+Mumbai suburban +
rail duniya + KR(?) ). The question is : how does one ship such a load
assuming it's going to be a big one - Air Mail or Sea Mail?

Vijay

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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: How many time tables are needed ?

Date: 27 Aug 1998 08:48:49 -0500


>Hi Apurva:
>
>Glad to see your posting about this as I am definitely interested in
any
>timetables you can find (except Trains at a Glance). I have no recent
IR
>timetables at the moment, and I have only ever managed to find SER, NR
and
>WR tt's in the past (plus Trains at a Glance).

>
>In my earlier posting, I suggested that it might make sense for someone

in
>India who can obtain tt's (eg you !) to send them in bulk to someone
>outside India for local distribution. The reason I suggested this was
so
>that the person outside India could collect payments from the other
people
>in that country and then send ONE payment to India, rather than have
>everybody overseas sending individual payments to India. This is on
the
>assumption that it would be necessary to buy a rupee bank draft to send

to
>India. It is a waste of time and money for a bunch of people each to
have
>to go to a bank to buy a small denomination rupee draft and then send
it to
>India rather than simply mailing a check in their own currency to one
>person who would then buy a larger rupee draft on behalf of everybody.

At
>least that's what I think !!
>
>I also said that I would be happy to take on the role of distributing
the
>tt's in the US - but I would also be very happy if somebody else wanted

to
>do this. The important thing, however, is to get it done !
>
>Peter Mosse
>
Thanks Apurva and Peter for volunteering to take up this job. I am sure

it will be a worthwhile effort since there are quite a few of us here
who would like to get hold of these beauties. I, for one, am willing to

pay for ALL available timetables (zonal rlwys.+TAAG+Mumbai suburban +
rail duniya + KR(?) ). The question is : how does one ship such a load
assuming it's going to be a big one - Air Mail or Sea Mail?

Vijay

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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: How many time tables are needed ?

Date: 27 Aug 1998 09:26:13 -0500


Hi Peter,

Received the IR map just a couple of days back. Thanks so much. It's

great stuff and a definite asset to my collection. Of course, it's 1993

so quite a few of the conversions shown here are complete now. Also,
some more sections are electrified now (such as Nagpur-Durg)

VIjay

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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Train service required

Date: 27 Aug 1998 09:45:43 -0500


>> leaves Pune at 0605 to reach Mumbai CSTM at 1010, the 1009 Dn.
departs
>> CTSM at 1430 to reach Pune at 1905 hrs. After Kalyan, our dream train
>> leaves the CR mainline and enters the BSR link at Dombivali. It
reaches
>> Vasai in an hours time and then stops at Borivali, Goregaon, Andheri
to
>> terminate at Bandra Terminus. This does not come in the way of much
>
>Hey, I think this is a cool idea - it will be indeed a big boon for
>passengers on the WR side to commute to and from Pune. It is a bigger
>adventure to travel within Mumbai than it is to travel long-distance,
>because in the latter case you actually might have a reserved seat!
>
>> PS: The Dombivali - Vasai is not the only rail link between Central
and
>> the Western Rail in Mumbai - there exist a small crossover in the
Parel
>> yard. Once the NDLS - MCT Rajdhani Exp used this link to get to
Mumbai
>> Central as the Western Rail link was down due to some mishap. A
senior
>
>There is also the famous Ravli (sp?) junction link just South of
>Wadala station on CR Harbor line. This was the site of possibly
>the worst accident in Mumbai's suburban train history. Anyway, a
>train from Pune could come on the CR mainline until Kurla, then head
>off on harbor line, and then turn around at Wadala to head for WR via
>Kings Circle, and Mahim Jn. I am not sure if the train needs to
>reverse directions at Wadala or whether there is a triangle -bypass of
>Wadala that would avoid the reverse. I understand that many goods
>trains used to use this route before the BSR link.

I believe they have constructed a Ravli Jn. bypass flyover to avoid
direction reversal at Vadala Rd. In fact, the Belapur-Andheri locals
use this to connect between CR and WR. So, we could have a Pune-Bandra
train via Vasai Rd. (no triangle here, so reversal needed) or via Ravli
bypass (no reversal). However, the latter will not serve stations south

of Bandra.

>
>On other notes, thanks to Poras and Viral for the timings and info
>about the new Time-table -we really appreciate your taking the time to
>post this stuff. The new Kurla-Howrah exp seems a curious beast. It

I second Pushkar in expressing my gratitude to Poras and Viral for
supplying us with the schedules.


>is not symmetrical in Up and down - it is more like the
>Mumbai-Bangalore exp via Belgaum which makes the down journey in 2
>nts-1 day, waits @ Bangalore for a day and then starts back the foll.
>morning. This one does the same with Howrah. It would appear that
>the timings for Nagpur on the return journey will not be too
>convenient...

Just compared this with the Gitanjali. Not much difference in run-times

except for the Bhusaval-Nagpur and Nagpur-Durg sections.
Am not sure whether Igatpuri is a passenger or techincal halt. Will
have to wait for the CR timetable.

>
>Finally, this upstart Trivandrum Rajdhani is really getting one's goat
>- to upstage the venerable Mumbai Rajdhani on its own turf with only
>one commercial halt of Vadodara between Delhi and Mumbai? And screw
>up so many WR superfasts to boot? Terrible!

That's strange. The Rediff page includes Kota and Raltam in the halt
list and it doesn't make sense for them to show techincal halts. Will
have to wait for the WR timetable on this one. TAAG is not always
reliable.

Vijay

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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Purpose of IRFCA

Date: 27 Aug 1998 10:12:24 -0500



>2) Nizzamuddin - Habibganj SF exp 2156
>
>Dep Nzz: 2255
>Arr Bhopal : 0835
>habibganj Arr : 0900
>
>2155
>Dep Habibganj 2115
>Arr Bhopal 2125
>Dep Bhopal 2133
>Arr Nizz : 0755
>
>Stoppages at vidisha,Jhansi,Gwalior

Another one of those upstarts! Ignores Agra Cant?


>
>4 days a week Bandra-Bikaner Exp.
>
>dep bandra:1510
>arr jodhpur:1030:1045
>arr bikaner :1540
>
>bikaner:0940
>jodhpur:1450:1510
>arr:bandrA:1145
>

YACFM (Yet Another Crawler from Mumbai!!). I would have expected a
superfast connection between Mumbai and Jodhpur/Bikaner given that
Calcutta has one. A superfast train could do Mumbai-Jodhpur in less
than 16 hrs.

>(BETWEEN ADI-Bandra it stops at only Vadodara,Surat,Valsad)
>

Some consolation here. Finally, a Mumbai train via ADI that ignores
Bharuch, Anand and Nadiad.


>CST-NGP Vidharbha Exp has been made superfast.
>
>Mangla exp
>dep Nizz:0955
>Kalyan: 1125:1130
>panvel:1225:1230
>madgaon 2115:2125
>kankanadi0220:0230
>ernakulam 1230
>
>ernakulam 1215
>kankanadi2325:2335
>madgaon 0433;0443
>panel:1350:1355
>kalyan 1455:1500
>Nizz: 1540
>
The Punjab Mail is still the fastest train between Kalyan and Delhi.
That's a relief.

>
>There is a train from Porbandar to Delhi Sarai Rohilla (Weekly)

Was expecting a train similar to the above, since there used to be no
direct train for Delhi beyond Jamnagar. Maybe, they'll augment this
with an Okha-Delhi train with similar times but on a different day.


Vijay

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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Purpose of IRFCA

Date: 27 Aug 1998 10:12:39 -0500



>2) Nizzamuddin - Habibganj SF exp 2156
>
>Dep Nzz: 2255
>Arr Bhopal : 0835
>habibganj Arr : 0900
>
>2155
>Dep Habibganj 2115
>Arr Bhopal 2125
>Dep Bhopal 2133
>Arr Nizz : 0755
>
>Stoppages at vidisha,Jhansi,Gwalior

Another one of those upstarts! Ignores Agra Cant?


>
>4 days a week Bandra-Bikaner Exp.
>
>dep bandra:1510
>arr jodhpur:1030:1045
>arr bikaner :1540
>
>bikaner:0940
>jodhpur:1450:1510
>arr:bandrA:1145
>

YACFM (Yet Another Crawler from Mumbai!!). I would have expected a
superfast connection between Mumbai and Jodhpur/Bikaner given that
Calcutta has one. A superfast train could do Mumbai-Jodhpur in less
than 16 hrs.

>(BETWEEN ADI-Bandra it stops at only Vadodara,Surat,Valsad)
>

Some consolation here. Finally, a Mumbai train via ADI that ignores
Bharuch, Anand and Nadiad.


>CST-NGP Vidharbha Exp has been made superfast.
>
>Mangla exp
>dep Nizz:0955
>Kalyan: 1125:1130
>panvel:1225:1230
>madgaon 2115:2125
>kankanadi0220:0230
>ernakulam 1230
>
>ernakulam 1215
>kankanadi2325:2335
>madgaon 0433;0443
>panel:1350:1355
>kalyan 1455:1500
>Nizz: 1540
>
The Punjab Mail is still the fastest train between Kalyan and Delhi.
That's a relief.

>
>There is a train from Porbandar to Delhi Sarai Rohilla (Weekly)

Was expecting a train similar to the above, since there used to be no
direct train for Delhi beyond Jamnagar. Maybe, they'll augment this
with an Okha-Delhi train with similar times but on a different day.


Vijay

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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: LIFE ON THE RAILS.

Date: 27 Aug 1998 10:29:18 -0500


>Hi gang,
>At the outset let me tell my friends Vijay and Dheeraj that whatever
>information they needed from the time table unfortunately could not be
>given since I am busy with work. Once I am free I will post you all
the

Thanks, Poras. We appreciate all your help.


>details. However for your info the Kurla Howrah Super Deluxe Ac
express
>will depart from Mumbai at 20.20 and will reach Howrah at 4.10 am
^^^^^

Seems to be different from what Viral has quoted from TAAG. How come?

>
>I had gone to BHUSAWAL for personal work and thoroughly enjoyed the
>TRIP on my favourite section of Igatpuri Bhusawal Well whilst going
had
>taken the Gitanjali from Mumbai and it was headed by the usual WCAM 3
AND
>FROM IGATPURI IT WAS WAP 2 FROM TATANAGAR SHED. The train was
^^^^^
Are you sure about this one? Was it a Bo-Bo or Co-Co type? As far as I

know, WAP2 is a converted WAM2/3 loco. and can be found only in the
Allahabad-Howrah section.

>Whilst waiting at Igatpuri I saw the 1404 up Manmad kurla express with
a
>WCAM 3 from Manmad. On further enquiry it was revealed that all trains

to
>Manmad are with the loco from Mumbai. What they do at Igatpuri is
lower
>the Panto and then raise the leading panto.

Do you know how much time it takes to do all this? In other words, what

are the Up/Dn. halt times for the Kurla-Manmad Exp./Panchavati Exp. at
Igatpuri?

Vijay

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