IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 3301 - 3320
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Happy Independence day !
Date: 14 Aug 1998 12:16:58 -0500
To all dear friends,
Happy Independence day !
Apurva Bahadur
From: S Pai <>
Subject: Happy Independence day !
Date: 14 Aug 1998 12:51:27 -0500
Here in the US, as I read your message, it is still the 14th, which
would
make it Pakistan's Independence Day. :-) Well, greetings to people of
both
countries!
By the way, are there any steam lines surviving in Pakistan? And what
has
their general policy been towards railway gauges? Are they also
converting
most lines to broad-gauge (same spec as Indian BG I should think)? I'd
also think they might have quite a few narrow-gauge lines in the hilly
parts.
And the age-old question -- what's the status of the link to Iran via
Zahidan / Kuh-e-taftan? For the past 10 years or more this section has
always been "almost complete except for the last hundred miles", hasn't
it? Lack of political will? Lack of economic rationale?
By the way, I just got back from a trip to Europe, and wanted to mention
the Science & Transport Museum in Lucerne as well as the Transport
Museum
in Berlin -- both have fine exhibits of well-preserved locomotives and
carriages (and other railway miscellanea) from early this century and
even
some from as early as 1870! (Not running ones, though.) Well worth the
detours for any rail-fan travelling anywhere in those parts.
-Satish
>>>>> On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:46:58 +0530, Apurva Bahadur
<iti@giaspn01.email said:
> To all dear friends,
>
> Happy Independence day !
>
> Apurva Bahadur
From: S Pai <>
Subject: Happy Independence day !
Date: 14 Aug 1998 12:51:27 -0500
Here in the US, as I read your message, it is still the 14th, which
would
make it Pakistan's Independence Day. :-) Well, greetings to people of
both
countries!
By the way, are there any steam lines surviving in Pakistan? And what
has
their general policy been towards railway gauges? Are they also
converting
most lines to broad-gauge (same spec as Indian BG I should think)? I'd
also think they might have quite a few narrow-gauge lines in the hilly
parts.
And the age-old question -- what's the status of the link to Iran via
Zahidan / Kuh-e-taftan? For the past 10 years or more this section has
always been "almost complete except for the last hundred miles", hasn't
it? Lack of political will? Lack of economic rationale?
By the way, I just got back from a trip to Europe, and wanted to mention
the Science & Transport Museum in Lucerne as well as the Transport
Museum
in Berlin -- both have fine exhibits of well-preserved locomotives and
carriages (and other railway miscellanea) from early this century and
even
some from as early as 1870! (Not running ones, though.) Well worth the
detours for any rail-fan travelling anywhere in those parts.
-Satish
>>>>> On Sat, 15 Aug 1998 00:46:58 +0530, Apurva Bahadur
<iti@giaspn01.email said:
> To all dear friends,
>
> Happy Independence day !
>
> Apurva Bahadur
From: Prakash Tendulkar <>
Subject: Video about Indian Railways
Date: 14 Aug 1998 16:25:14 -0500
Folks,
Here are more particulars from Midland Books.
Prakash
---------------------- Forwarded by Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM
on
08/14/98 04:23 PM ---------------------------
midlandbooks@compuserve.email on 08/14/98 07:20:56 AM
Please respond to midlandbooks@compuserve.email
To: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@ibmus
cc:
Subject: Video about Indian Railways
Thank you for your enquiry. We can supply all but one of the videos on
your list, and we have added a few more! We have also listed a number
of
book titles which we can supply:
1. ALCAZAR VIDEO:
Steam across the world - west & north India - GBP17.99
Steam across the world - south India - GBP17.99
Steam across the world - Pakistan in the 1970s - GBP16.99
2. LINESIDE LOCATIONS:
Steam in Pakistan - GBP16.95
3. NICK LERA:
Relics of the Raj- GBP10.99
Rails to N.W.Frontier - Pakistan - GBP19.95
4. RAILFILMS:
Indian steam sunset volumes 1,2 & 3 - GBP12.50 each
Indus Express (Pakistan) - GBP12.50
5. Roy Laverick:
Darjeeling - GBP18.00
Steam in the sub-continent - GBP18.50
Indian Summer - GBP18.00
East Revisited (India and China) - GBP18.00
6. Ray Freeman:
India volumes 1,2 & 3 - GBP19.75 each.
7. B.B.C.:
Great Railways - Flying Scotman - Sorry, no longer available.
Great Railway Journeys Of The World - India - GBP10.99
8. NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC:
Great Indian Railway - GBP10.99
9. STEAM POWERED VIDEO:
Steam in the Punjab - GBP18.95
BOOKS -
1. Continental Railway Circle:
Indian Locomotives Part 1, Broad Gauge 1851-1940 - GBP7.95
Indian Locomotives Part 2, Metre Gauge 1872-1940 - GBP9.00
Indian Locomotives Part 3, Narrow Gauge 1863-1940 - GBP9.90
Indian Locomotives Part 4, 1941-1990 - GBP10.50
2. Bradt Publications:
India by Rail - GBP11.95
3. Three Counties Publishing
India - No Problem Sahib! - GBP19.95
4. Oxford Publishing
Building the Railways of the Raj 1850-1900 - GBP4.50 (Softback) or
GBP15.99 (Hardback)
Exploring Indian Railways - GBP18.95
POSTAGE AND PACKING:
All video prices quoted above are inclusive of Surface Mail Despatch to
India. For books, please add 15% to the value of books ordered to cover
surface mail despatch. Air mail can be arranged at cost, and we would
be
happy to quote for this when you decide what you wish to order.
Please note that all prices quoted are in STERLING. If you wish to pay
in
dollars, we accept dollar checks - just multiply the total payable by
1.7.
If there is anything I haven't covered, please ask!
From: Prakash Tendulkar <>
Subject: Video about Indian Railways
Date: 14 Aug 1998 16:25:14 -0500
Folks,
Here are more particulars from Midland Books.
Prakash
---------------------- Forwarded by Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM
on
08/14/98 04:23 PM ---------------------------
midlandbooks@compuserve.email on 08/14/98 07:20:56 AM
Please respond to midlandbooks@compuserve.email
To: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@ibmus
cc:
Subject: Video about Indian Railways
Thank you for your enquiry. We can supply all but one of the videos on
your list, and we have added a few more! We have also listed a number
of
book titles which we can supply:
1. ALCAZAR VIDEO:
Steam across the world - west & north India - GBP17.99
Steam across the world - south India - GBP17.99
Steam across the world - Pakistan in the 1970s - GBP16.99
2. LINESIDE LOCATIONS:
Steam in Pakistan - GBP16.95
3. NICK LERA:
Relics of the Raj- GBP10.99
Rails to N.W.Frontier - Pakistan - GBP19.95
4. RAILFILMS:
Indian steam sunset volumes 1,2 & 3 - GBP12.50 each
Indus Express (Pakistan) - GBP12.50
5. Roy Laverick:
Darjeeling - GBP18.00
Steam in the sub-continent - GBP18.50
Indian Summer - GBP18.00
East Revisited (India and China) - GBP18.00
6. Ray Freeman:
India volumes 1,2 & 3 - GBP19.75 each.
7. B.B.C.:
Great Railways - Flying Scotman - Sorry, no longer available.
Great Railway Journeys Of The World - India - GBP10.99
8. NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC:
Great Indian Railway - GBP10.99
9. STEAM POWERED VIDEO:
Steam in the Punjab - GBP18.95
BOOKS -
1. Continental Railway Circle:
Indian Locomotives Part 1, Broad Gauge 1851-1940 - GBP7.95
Indian Locomotives Part 2, Metre Gauge 1872-1940 - GBP9.00
Indian Locomotives Part 3, Narrow Gauge 1863-1940 - GBP9.90
Indian Locomotives Part 4, 1941-1990 - GBP10.50
2. Bradt Publications:
India by Rail - GBP11.95
3. Three Counties Publishing
India - No Problem Sahib! - GBP19.95
4. Oxford Publishing
Building the Railways of the Raj 1850-1900 - GBP4.50 (Softback) or
GBP15.99 (Hardback)
Exploring Indian Railways - GBP18.95
POSTAGE AND PACKING:
All video prices quoted above are inclusive of Surface Mail Despatch to
India. For books, please add 15% to the value of books ordered to cover
surface mail despatch. Air mail can be arranged at cost, and we would
be
happy to quote for this when you decide what you wish to order.
Please note that all prices quoted are in STERLING. If you wish to pay
in
dollars, we accept dollar checks - just multiply the total payable by
1...7.
If there is anything I haven't covered, please ask!
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Shub Azadi Din! Jai Hind!
Date: 14 Aug 1998 23:12:37 -0500
A very happy Indian Independence day
To everyone in this very uniquely international
place - the IRFC list in cyberspace.
A memory that when Ghandi Ji wanted
to see the face of Mother India,
he rode about,
on the train.
Annie
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Shub Azadi Din! Jai Hind!
Date: 14 Aug 1998 23:12:37 -0500
A very happy Indian Independence day
To everyone in this very uniquely international
place - the IRFC list in cyberspace.
A memory that when Ghandi Ji wanted
to see the face of Mother India,
he rode about,
on the train.
Annie
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Railways to the west
Date: 15 Aug 1998 00:22:36 -0500
> And the age-old question -- what's the status of the link to Iran via
> Zahidan / Kuh-e-taftan? For the past 10 years or more this section
has
> always been "almost complete except for the last hundred miles",
hasn't
> it? Lack of political will? Lack of economic rationale?
>
Fill us in about this link-up. If it happened, how far could one go (in
theory) by train? I know an Indian man who travelled from london to
Dehli by bus recently.
This reminds me - I've heard there are *NO* railways in Afghanistan. Can
anybody confirm or deny this???
> By the way, I just got back from a trip to Europe, and wanted to
mention
> the Science & Transport Museum in Lucerne as well as the Transport
Museum
> in Berlin -- both have fine exhibits of well-preserved locomotives and
> carriages (and other railway miscellanea) from early this century and
even
> some from as early as 1870! (Not running ones, though.) Well worth
the
> detours for any rail-fan travelling anywhere in those parts.
Speaking of european RR museums -
Beautiful little museum in Brussels at main Ferrocarrill de Belgique
station.
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Railways to the west
Date: 15 Aug 1998 00:22:36 -0500
> And the age-old question -- what's the status of the link to Iran via
> Zahidan / Kuh-e-taftan? For the past 10 years or more this section
has
> always been "almost complete except for the last hundred miles",
hasn't
> it? Lack of political will? Lack of economic rationale?
>
Fill us in about this link-up. If it happened, how far could one go (in
theory) by train? I know an Indian man who travelled from london to
Dehli by bus recently.
This reminds me - I've heard there are *NO* railways in Afghanistan. Can
anybody confirm or deny this???
> By the way, I just got back from a trip to Europe, and wanted to
mention
> the Science & Transport Museum in Lucerne as well as the Transport
Museum
> in Berlin -- both have fine exhibits of well-preserved locomotives and
> carriages (and other railway miscellanea) from early this century and
even
> some from as early as 1870! (Not running ones, though.) Well worth
the
> detours for any rail-fan travelling anywhere in those parts.
Speaking of european RR museums -
Beautiful little museum in Brussels at main Ferrocarrill de Belgique
station.
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Raised retirement age
Date: 15 Aug 1998 05:18:30 -0500
Hi Gang,
As you may be aware, the Central Government has raised the retirement
age of drivers (and all other govt. employees) from 58 to 60. The
drivers I have talked to are not happy about it. All drivers worry about
their declining health and their accelerated aging brought on by the
unnatural hours of working coupled with the high stress levels of their
job. Their worry is that a mistake committed in the 2 extra years would
surely result in dismissal or downgrading of their service record. This
would affect their pension and retired life.
Apurva Bahadur
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Raised retirement age
Date: 15 Aug 1998 05:18:30 -0500
Hi Gang,
As you may be aware, the Central Government has raised the retirement
age of drivers (and all other govt. employees) from 58 to 60. The
drivers I have talked to are not happy about it. All drivers worry about
their declining health and their accelerated aging brought on by the
unnatural hours of working coupled with the high stress levels of their
job. Their worry is that a mistake committed in the 2 extra years would
surely result in dismissal or downgrading of their service record. This
would affect their pension and retired life.
Apurva Bahadur
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Pakistan Rail
Date: 15 Aug 1998 08:24:40 -0500
Gang !
Come to think of it, does Pakistan Rail have any MG or NG ? NG, I think
they have, I remember a ZB class somewhere in a mountain. I remember
that most Pak locos are oil fired. Okay, the BBC is showing great
railway journeys, the Mombassa - Mountains of the Moon episode on today.
I wonder if there is a IR section this time. Also yesterday night I saw
patches of a Bengali film on the Doordarshan Bangla channel which showed
lots of B & W footage of steam sheds. Something about Uttam Kumar being
a railway doctor allowing mass leave for all the drivers. Shots of WP,
WG, HPS and AWD class. Also a loco I could not identify with a long
reverse cone type chimney (narrow boiler end - wide upper end).
Apurva Bahadur
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: [Fwd: Raised retirement age
Date: 15 Aug 1998 10:38:11 -0500
Please contribute
Apurva
From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>
Subject: Re: Raised retirement age
Date: 15 Aug 1998 19:07:30 -0500
This age is still younger than here in the US where the retirement age
is
62 at less than full retirement and 65 for full retirement. Hope
everyone in India had a great independence day.
Don in WV
----------
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
> To: Indian Railway Info Zone <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Raised retirement age
> Date: Saturday, August 15, 1998 8:18 AM
>
> Hi Gang,
>
> As you may be aware, the Central Government has raised the retirement
> age of drivers (and all other govt. employees) from 58 to 60. The
> drivers I have talked to are not happy about it. All drivers worry
about
> their declining health and their accelerated aging brought on by the
> unnatural hours of working coupled with the high stress levels of
their
> job. Their worry is that a mistake committed in the 2 extra years
would
> surely result in dismissal or downgrading of their service record.
This
> would affect their pension and retired life.
>
> Apurva Bahadur
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Nilgiri Steam
Date: 15 Aug 1998 19:51:25 -0500
<A HREF="http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/whodom/new.html">http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/whodom/new.html</A>
Has a drawing of the proposed Swiss steam locos
for the Nilgiri Line.
--
Jayant S
--
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>
Subject: Re: Pakistan Rail
Date: 15 Aug 1998 19:57:10 -0500
Hi Apurva,
Pak Railways: extensive MG system in Sind, originally connecting
with
the (now) W.R. lines in Rajasthan. Mostly BESA 4-6-0s in days of steam,
now
(one assumes) diseasels. Three surviving NG lines, all 2ft 6in gauge
(762mm): Kohat-Thal, to Bannu & Tank (2 separate branches), and the
very
long line from Bostan, near Quetta, to Fort Sandeman in the upper Zhob
valley. One of the intermediate stations on that line, by the way, used
to
be called Hindubagh but has been renamed Muslimbagh! Steam power was
mostly
NWR 2-8-2s and earlier designs, all precursors of the 1925 IRS
standards.
Rloonmg stock very like that on the KSR, not surprisingly since until
1947
it was all built at Moghulpura.
Hope that helps!
Cheers
Ken Walker
-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
To: Indian Railway Info Zone <irfca@cs.email
Date: Sunday, 16 August 1998 3:48
Subject: Pakistan Rail
>Gang !
>
>Come to think of it, does Pakistan Rail have any MG or NG ? NG, I think
>they have, I remember a ZB class somewhere in a mountain. I remember
>that most Pak locos are oil fired. Okay, the BBC is showing great
>railway journeys, the Mombassa - Mountains of the Moon episode on
today.
>I wonder if there is a IR section this time. Also yesterday night I saw
>patches of a Bengali film on the Doordarshan Bangla channel which
showed
>lots of B & W footage of steam sheds. Something about Uttam Kumar being
>a railway doctor allowing mass leave for all the drivers. Shots of WP,
>WG, HPS and AWD class. Also a loco I could not identify with a long
>reverse cone type chimney (narrow boiler end - wide upper end).
>
>Apurva Bahadur
>
>
From: poras p.saklatwalla <>
Subject: Re: Six new trains from tomorrow
Date: 15 Aug 1998 20:04:59 -0500
Hi Gang,
Well 6 new trains are on the tracks but what about the Bom/Cal AC exp
and
Bom/Nagpur AC exp ? Why is there no news on that front ? Can Someone
post me on that. The new time table will be out only in the last week
of
August as per AH wheeler Stall at Victoria Terminus in Mumbai
PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>
Subject: Re: Afghanistan et Iran
Date: 15 Aug 1998 20:58:48 -0500
Hi Annie,
The line from Quetta to Zahidan (the Nushki Extension Railway) was
completed throughout in 1918; construction had been expedited because of
WWI, but it didn't quite get there in time! The line presents unusual
difficulties, including sandhills which move, and past which the line
has to
be re-laid every so often. On one occasion, troops in transit died of
thirst
and heat exhaustion due to the extreme temperatures. The last 138 miles
of
the line, from Nok Kundi to Zahidan, were closed and lifted in 1932, due
to
poor traffic, and were only reinstated in 1942 (another war!) From 1967,
the
Persians (Iranians) were responsible for track maintenance and station
manning on the last 50 miles, from Mirjawa to Zahidan.
Cook's International Timetable for July-August 1997 shows two trains
Quetta-Zahedan, 125 Dn Taftan Express, Weekly Sats 1200 ex Quetta, 1700
the
following day (Sun) at Zahedan; and Q485, Tues1210 ex Quetta,1950 at
Zahedan, also the following day (Sun). The return workings are 126 and
Q486
Up, ex Zahedan Mons 0930 and Thurs 0945 respectively, arr Quetta 1430
(Tues)
and 1820 (Fri)Note Friday service in Pak but not Iran.
The problem about through connections seems to be Iranian, not Pak:
as
of 1977 Iranian railways had reached Kerman on their extension to the
southeast, leaving a gap of almost 400km (250 miles). Cook's list no
train
services to Zahedan, nor is a line marked on their diagramattic map, but
there is a bus service (541km by road) listed, though entirely without
details.
There are NO railways in Aghanistan -- no irony, no inverted commas,
no
hyperbole -- BUT there is one exception: the Russians built a line into
Afghanistan in the years when they had closer relations with the then
government. You can see it in photos of the border bridge, but I have no
idea how far it went into Afghanistan. Certainly there is no passenger
service on it now, and there may never have been. Gauge most probably
5ft,
in line with the Russian system. Cooks do show a line in Uzbekistan,
terminating at Termiz on the Afghan border and running back (via
Turkmenistan in the west) to Quarshi, Bukhara and Samarkhand; an
easterly
extension goes to Dushanbe in Tajikistan. (By the way, did you know
plums
are called 'alu bukhara' in Urdu? How's that for useless information!)
Bus
services to Hairatan in Afghanistan are shown on the Cook's map.
Otherwise the closest points are the Khyber Railway at Landi Khana
and
the Chaman Extension Railway at Chaman. The former has formation right
up
the the border post, but trains have not run beyond Landi Khana in
donkeys'
years: most run only to Landi Kotal for the weekly market. At Chaman,
the
line stops about 200 yards short of the border. Both Landi Khana and
Chaman
are on the Afghan side of the dividing range; the views from the latter
near
Shelabagh tunnel are stunning.
I flew over Afghanistan not long ago, and you could see why -- apart
from bigotry and vendettas -- there aren't any railways. The country is
incredibly rugged and barren, and of course the issue of gauge would
arise:
5ft to the north, standard to the west, 5ft6in to the east.
Cheers from the old infoKJ
-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
To: Indian Railways List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, 15 August 1998 5:59
Subject: Railways to the west
>> And the age-old question -- what's the status of the link to Iran via
>> Zahidan / Kuh-e-taftan? For the past 10 years or more this section
has
>> always been "almost complete except for the last hundred miles",
hasn't
>> it? Lack of political will? Lack of economic rationale?
>>
>Fill us in about this link-up. If it happened, how far could one go (in
>theory) by train? I know an Indian man who travelled from london to
>Dehli by bus recently.
>
>This reminds me - I've heard there are *NO* railways in Afghanistan.
Can
>anybody confirm or deny this???
>
>> By the way, I just got back from a trip to Europe, and wanted to
mention
>> the Science & Transport Museum in Lucerne as well as the Transport
Museum
>> in Berlin -- both have fine exhibits of well-preserved locomotives
and
>> carriages (and other railway miscellanea) from early this century and
even
>> some from as early as 1870! (Not running ones, though.) Well worth
the
>> detours for any rail-fan travelling anywhere in those parts.
>
>Speaking of european RR museums -
>Beautiful little museum in Brussels at main Ferrocarrill de Belgique
>station.
>
From: S Pai <>
Subject: Re: Afghanistan et Iran
Date: 16 Aug 1998 10:07:12 -0500
> There are NO railways in Aghanistan -- no irony, no inverted commas,
no
> hyperbole -- BUT there is one exception: the Russians built a line
into
> Afghanistan
There is also some remaining infrastructure for about 2km of rail line
near
Kabul (I don't know if it was ever actually functional), I believe --
read
about it a while back -- but given its size Afghanistan must really
count
as the country with the least railroad penetration.
> I flew over Afghanistan not long ago, and you could see why -- apart
from
> bigotry and vendettas -- there aren't any railways. The country is
> incredibly rugged and barren,
I don't think that's the only reason. It was the focus of the "Great
Game"
between Russia and Great Britain, and the British did not want any links
whatsoever in Afghanistan which might make it easier for the Russians to
menace British India -- it would have been idiocy in strategic terms.
> Cook's International Timetable for July-August 1997 shows two trains
> Quetta-Zahedan, 125 Dn Taftan Express, Weekly Sats 1200 ex Quetta,
1700 the
> following day (Sun) at Zahedan; and Q485, Tues1210 ex Quetta,1950 at
> Zahedan, also the following day (Sun).
I believe the line into Iran until Zahidan is operated by Pakistan
Railways and the trains have Pakistani rolling stock and locos.
-Satish
From: S Pai <>
Subject: Railways to the west
Date: 16 Aug 1998 10:18:03 -0500
> Fill us in about this link-up. If it happened, how far could one go
(in
> theory) by train? I know an Indian man who travelled from london to
> Dehli by bus recently.
In theory? Well, you could start from London (or a bit further west?)
and
go until somewhere in the Brahmaputra valley in eastern India... You'd
probably also have a choice of how to make connections from Europe into
Central Asia and into Iran. (I don't have a European rail map handy
right
now.)
Whether you would want to take trains through any of the Central Asian
republics
today is a different question altogether. :-(
I wonder how long it would take to do a trip like this.
-Satish