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From: Anne O. <>

Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams, Polley troles, and the like

Date: 18 Jul 1998 00:25:31 -0500


> Do visit Calcutta for the trams and keep a couple of days aside just
to do the
> trams.


Unfortunately, when I was in calcutta all I got were a few glimpses.

If memory serves, there's a tram line across the Howrah bridge. Or is
that IR?

From: Anne O. <>

Subject: IRFC archive

Date: 18 Jul 1998 00:50:08 -0500


Anybody know what's up with the IRFC archive?
I should be able to see it, but I can't.
Supposedly it was at:

<A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/sundar/irfca/index.html">http://members.xoom.com/sundar/irfca/index.html</A>

Are others having intermittent problems seeing this archive?

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams, Polley troles, and the like

Date: 18 Jul 1998 01:50:47 -0500




Anne O. wrote:

> > Do visit Calcutta for the trams and keep a couple of days aside just
to do the
> > trams.
>
> Unfortunately, when I was in calcutta all I got were a few glimpses.
>
> If memory serves, there's a tram line across the Howrah bridge. Or is
> that IR?

There was a tram line across the HWH bridge but no more

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: More Telco Pix

Date: 18 Jul 1998 01:52:14 -0500


So what is the classification number of this loco ?

Apurva

Shankarnarayan, Sridhar wrote:

> Apurva,
>
> When IR was looking for high horsepower locos in the late eighties the
had
> trial batches from Hitachi and ABB (now Adtranz). Apparently, they
either
> liked the ABB loco better or they offered better terms for transfer of
> technology (or perhaps, better terms in the form of "kickbacks"). If
I
> remember correctly, there was another design - Sumitomo with a desi
partner
> either BHEL or CLW, which was in the running for a while and was later
> disqualified on some technical grounds.
>
> -Sridhar
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Apurva Bahadur [SMTP:iti@giaspn01.email
> > Sent: Friday, July 17, 1998 9:51 AM
> > To: Indian Railways Info Zone
> > Subject: More Telco Pix
> >
> > Hello Friends,
> >
> > This is a picture of another Telco truck on rails. This pic is from
a
> > Konkan Rail brochure in Hindi. It is clear that the wheels are 'rail
> > only'. Note the WDS 4 in the background.
> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg</A>
> >
> > Can the gang identify this loco ? I found this tattered picture on
some
> > mag (International Rail Gazette - I Think). Hitachi loco ? I thought
ABB
> > supplied these locos. This loco has a door in the nose to get on to
the
> > other loco during MU operation. Something tells me that these were
some
> > trial pieces of an unsuccessful loco. Any comments ?
> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg</A>
> >
> > Apurva Bahadur
> >

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: More Telco Pix

Date: 18 Jul 1998 01:53:42 -0500


Telco stands for Tata Engineering & Locomotive (they used to make YP &
YGs)
Company, thus this truck is called TELCO

Apurva

Donald L. Mills, Jr wrote:

> Apurva- What you call a Telco on truck on rails we call a Hi-Rail.
These
> are used primarily for maintainence of way or to go in front and
behind
> hazardous materials trains.
>
> ----------
> > From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
> > To: Indian Railways Info Zone <irfca@cs.email
> > Subject: More Telco Pix
> > Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 10:51 AM
> >
> > Hello Friends,
> >
> > This is a picture of another Telco truck on rails. This pic is from
a
> > Konkan Rail brochure in Hindi. It is clear that the wheels are 'rail
> > only'. Note the WDS 4 in the background.
> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg</A>
> >
> > Can the gang identify this loco ? I found this tattered picture on
some
> > mag (International Rail Gazette - I Think). Hitachi loco ? I thought
ABB
> > supplied these locos. This loco has a door in the nose to get on to
the
> > other loco during MU operation. Something tells me that these were
some
> > trial pieces of an unsuccessful loco. Any comments ?
> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg</A>
> >
> > Apurva Bahadur
> >

From: cet <>

Subject: Dual voltage EMU

Date: 18 Jul 1998 04:27:39 -0500


Hi All!!

Both Central and Western Suburban Railway at Mumbai will soon be
having dual voltage emus. BHEL will retrofit 50 motor coaches of
central railways with AC Drives (i.e. AC motors). BHEL has tied up
with M/S Holec of Netherlands for this contract. GEC-Alsthom
(now Alstom) will be supplying for western railways.

The conversion from 1500 V DC to 25 kV AC will be
carried out in phased manner.

Supplies start Dec'99.

Bye,
Sudhir Kumar Gupta
Senior Engineer
Centre for Electric Transportation
Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited, Bhopal
INDIA
email: s.k.gupta@ieee.email

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: More Telco Pix

Date: 18 Jul 1998 10:28:34 -0500


Hello Apurva,
the 'strange loco' is a WAG/6B, imported from, as the cutting itself
says, Hitachi.
As you will no doubt recall, global tenders were floated by the IR for
high hp locos in 1988 or so.There were three offers: one from ASEA,
(subsequently chosen by thr IR), one from Hitachi, and one from BHEL as
a joint venture with Hitachi.

These engines were intensively tested on the Kirandul-Kottavalasa line
on teh SE.

Note the marked resemblance to the WCAM/2 & 3 electrics, which have
undoubtedly been derived from this design. After all, BHEL had put up a
joint attempt with Hitachi, as I mentioned earlier.

Best regards.

Shankar.




Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Telco stands for Tata Engineering & Locomotive (they used to make YP &
YGs)
> Company, thus this truck is called TELCO
>
> Apurva
>
> Donald L. Mills, Jr wrote:
>
> > Apurva- What you call a Telco on truck on rails we call a Hi-Rail.
These
> > are used primarily for maintainence of way or to go in front and
behind
> > hazardous materials trains.
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
> > > To: Indian Railways Info Zone <irfca@cs.email
> > > Subject: More Telco Pix
> > > Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 10:51 AM
> > >
> > > Hello Friends,
> > >
> > > This is a picture of another Telco truck on rails. This pic is
from a
> > > Konkan Rail brochure in Hindi. It is clear that the wheels are
'rail
> > > only'. Note the WDS 4 in the background.
> > > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg</A>
> > >
> > > Can the gang identify this loco ? I found this tattered picture on
some
> > > mag (International Rail Gazette - I Think). Hitachi loco ? I
thought ABB
> > > supplied these locos. This loco has a door in the nose to get on
to the
> > > other loco during MU operation. Something tells me that these were
some
> > > trial pieces of an unsuccessful loco. Any comments ?
> > > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg</A>
> > >
> > > Apurva Bahadur
> > >

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re: compounds

Date: 18 Jul 1998 16:54:19 -0500


gentlemen

forgive the non-subcontinent comment, but pertinent to the Compound
Steam
theme - perhaps the most extensive use of compound steam, alas now
forgotten,
was on the british owned railways in Argentina, where the poor water
quality
in the treeless Pampas made the compound popular because each
cylinderful of
stem was used twice, economizing water on long trips.

richard yudin

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re: Bombay ( Mumbai ) Trams

Date: 18 Jul 1998 17:01:19 -0500


There was a series of articles in the U.K. pblished Tramway Review
around
1994-95, giving a full history - back numbers obtainable from: LRTA
publications, 13A The precinct, Broxbourne, Hertfordshire, EN10 7HY,
England
- at UKP 7.50 for the set of numbers 157-161 inclusive

enjoy

richard yudin

From: Anne O. <>

Subject: Trams and S Bay meet

Date: 19 Jul 1998 00:23:25 -0500


Hi folks -

Well, three of us met at Chevy's tonight in Fremont - Sanjiv, Steve
Brown, and myself. I guess that means we're now a chapter of the IRFC?
There was discussion that next month we might go railfanning at Jack
London instead of meeting at a restaurant. 8^)

A full report with photos is available at

<A HREF="http://www.netmagic.net/~anniepoo/irfc/index.html">http://www.netmagic.net/~anniepoo/irfc/index.html</A>

Also, Apurva, I was in the city today and got photos of the "trams" in
San Francisco. They're posted in a new and improved "tongue switch" page
reachable through the above.

From: Anne O. <>

Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams

Date: 19 Jul 1998 00:32:12 -0500


> Thanks Anne for the drawing of the 'point'. While the train uses a
panto which
> brushes the undeside of the catenary wire, the tram's wheel actually
rides above
> the wire, is that right ?

No - the wheel is below the wire - it's shaped like a pulley.
The wheel *IS* the electrical contact with the wire. That's it's
purpose.

Imagine putting a pulley on the end of a long pole, then rolling the
pulley along an overhead wire - that's how a trolley pulley works.

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Argentina steam:

Date: 19 Jul 1998 02:55:24 -0500


richard yudin wrote:
> forgive the non-subcontinent comment, but pertinent to the Compound
Steam
> theme - perhaps the most extensive use of compound steam, alas now
forgotten,
> was on the british owned railways in Argentina, where the poor water
quality
> in the treeless Pampas made the compound popular because each
cylinderful of
> stem was used twice, economizing water on long trips.
Just a non-IR query on Argentina (sorry !): I remember reading that some
VERY advanced 2-10-2 tender locos once worked there on a mineral line
on the 2'6" gauge: producer-gas fireboxes designed by Dante Porta......
Do they still exist ?
(No prizes for guessing that I am crazy about ANY steam !)
--
Jayant S
--

From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Re: Argentina steam:

Date: 19 Jul 1998 03:17:13 -0500


Hi

That will be the "Rio Turbio" line.
262 km of 2-6 gauge coal hauler in Patagonia. The line was built in the
early 1950s IIRC and had some 20 locos..all 2-10-2s and I think a large
number were modified by and later too the designs of LD Porta with gas
producer fireboxes, Kylchap exhausts and sundry improvements to internal
steam passages and valve events.
AFAIK the line is still on the go although things were shaky in 1992
with the demand for coal declining.....If you want more contact me off
list and I'll look up the references

Cheers
Iain
Aerolite Booktraders
<A HREF="http://www.aerolite.u-net.com">http://www.aerolite.u-net.com</A>

Listmaster LNER group
<A HREF="http://www.bulleid.force9.co.uk/lneeg/">http://www.bulleid.force9.co.uk/lneeg/</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Neale's Ball Token

Date: 19 Jul 1998 07:53:07 -0500


Hi John,

Ball token exists near us between Pune and Kolhapur via Miraj. It is a
thrilling site to watch from the ground as well as from the footplate to
see the assistant driver of a charging WDM2 lean right of the cab in all
weathers, during day or night to pick up the token. The token is a reed
hoop of about a meter across with a leather pouch in the center to hold
the golf ball sized steel token ball.

Okay John, I have a Block Working Manual of the South Central Railways
(dated 1978) which contains all these details. I will scan the initial
pages and upload it to my site in a few days time. Then we can all start
making some sense of the Neales token instrument.

Apurva Bahadur

John Hinson wrote:

> Hi everybody out there from the UK,
>
> My interest is in railway signalling, primarily British signalling,
but
> also that in any part of the world where British signalling was
supplied
> which includes India, South America and Australia.
>
> In Britain we have Electric Staff, Tablet and Key Token instruments
> controlling our single lines (apart from where modernisation has taken
its
> toll) but no "Ball tokens" like you have in India.
>
> Does anybody know anything about the Neale's Ball Tokens - how they
work or
> what they look like. Can anyone supply me a drawing or scanned
photograph?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help. I have some other questions but they
had
> better wait for now.
>
> John Hinson
> ________||_
> / \ at
> /_____________\
> |___________| The Signal Box
> | | | | |
> |__|__|__|__| <A HREF="http://trainweb.com/signalbox/">http://trainweb.com/signalbox/</A>
> /| |
> //| ===== |
> // | |
> |/ |_ _ _ _ |
> --- o ---

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Our visit to Daund

Date: 19 Jul 1998 09:17:07 -0500


Hello dear friends,

Today I had been to Daund  (76 Kms South East of Pune ) along with my wife Shyama and Daughter Aditi (3 years old, pet name - Iti - the 'iti' in our email address) for a day trip.

I was standing in the door of the 2nd passenger coach of the WDM 2 hauled 329 Dn. Pune - Hyderabad passenger during the journey to Daund. It is a delightful experience, the booming exhaust, the hisses, snorts and whooshes from the loco. The unsilenced engine throws rich black smoke clouding the morning sky, tingeing the air with a unique fragrance. On curves I could  see the back of the driver's heads through the rear facing windscreens.  I could clearly feel in my coach, the Series Parallel jerk as the loco speeded over 39 Km/h. Do locos abroad, specially the Alcos also experience the jerk when crossing the transition from Series to Parallel ? Wish all of you, my friends were with me to share this divine experience. BTW the ticket to Daund costs Rs 15 each ( 33 cents approx.) for the 90 minutes ride.  Iti travels free being less than 5 years old.
I saw a new station at Kadethan between Kedgaon and Patas. This is a 'flag' station with no buildings,  loop lines or signals. Just a flattened earth platform with the name plate in three languages (English, Hindi and Marathi) and the altitude of the place above mean sea level. The stopping passenger trains make a brief halt and start after 30 seconds or so. I think I saw another yet to named station being constructed elsewhere on the line.
Just after the loco were three eight wheelers milk tankers (two homing at Erode and one homing at Vijaywada) thus making the 329 Dn a 'mixed' passenger. I wonder if these tankers actually carried milk as ED and BZA are more than 1500 Kms away from this place. One feature I saw was the provision of electric tail lights on a freight rake. The tankers themselves had no batteries or generator, but had power connection terminals, which would allow the red lamps to be lit in case these were shunted at the end of a rake.
Daund was hot and dirty but interesting. I saw the DMU rake soon to be introduced between Pune, Daund and Baramati. The two power cars of the DMU have been taken to HQ at Solapur for some repairs / familiarization / introduction / training. There were two non engine driving coaches with cabs (DTCs) and rest were Trailer coaches (TCs). Total six coaches in all. No one at Daund had a clear idea, but 15 of August (Indian Independence day) seems like a good day to start the service. I was told by a person on the platform that the traveler's association has some reservations about the DMU as it lacks toilets and sleeping berths, which today's Daund shuttles have.
I saw the WDS 6 shunter at work. Brings back great memories as it has a YDM 4 power pack, the purring diesel is a great sound.
I saw a ZDM 5 A of Barsi Light Railway, Kurduwadi shed on a flat car by itself. From the tip top appearance, it seems like this loco has just been to the Parel workshops at Mumbai for a thorough overhaul. Even the WDM 2s from Pune go to Parel as do all the CR stuff for a total refurbishing. Similarly I saw a rundown NG rake without wheels also from BLR on a flat car heading towards Mumbai.
I saw the 2627 Dn Karnataka Express arriving from Bangalore and leaving towards New Delhi via Manmad. The loco pair today were from Itarsi and they were not refueled at Daund. This may be because an electric loco may be hauling the 'KK' from Manmad onwards, whereas earlier the Diesels may be hauling the train all the way to NDLS. Anyone who has actually traveled on the train could confirm the loco changing points. The load today was 1200 Tonnes - 22 coaches. On my request, the driver put on a lot of smoke for me during start. The black clouds could be seen for a long time until the long snakelike train disappeared over the horizon. Today the driver of the KK was carrying 2 liters of oil for the governor of a 'heavily leaking' loco on the 1604 Up Nanded Daund passenger stranded at Ahmednagar on the Manmad Daund road. 2 liters was all the Woodward's governor needed ?
We returned to Pune on the 1602 Up Manmad - Daund - Pune mixed passenger, whose loco was uncoupled twice to undertake some additional shunting on some other rakes. The 'mixed' part of the load was the BOX wagon used by the department to carry wheel sets right after the loco.
I saw the double decker rake of the Daund Pune shuttle which was previously used by the Sinhagad express. The rake returns empty at 1130 to Daund (no paying passengers - no schedules stops) so as to return to Pune as the Baramati Pune passenger.
6529 Dn Udhyan Express crossed stopped 1602 Up at high speed at Urali station. The dark blue and black KJM (Krishnarajapuram) loco of the 6529 Dn. appearing over the hill and leading the train into the trough after the climb made a great sight from a distance.
I have pics of all this, which will be soon uploaded on my website.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: WAG 6B loco

Date: 19 Jul 1998 10:02:13 -0500


Shankar wrote:

> Hello Apurva,
> the 'strange loco' is a WAG/6B, imported from, as the cutting itself
> says, Hitachi.
> As you will no doubt recall, global tenders were floated by the IR for
> high hp locos in 1988 or so.There were three offers: one from ASEA,
> (subsequently chosen by thr IR), one from Hitachi, and one from BHEL
as
> a joint venture with Hitachi.
>
> These engines were intensively tested on the Kirandul-Kottavalasa line
> on teh SE.
>

All new engine seem to be tested on the 'KK' mineral line which must be
offering the most challenges. An friend of mine has traveled on this
line by the only passenger train through the day and he says this trip
has to done to be believed for the sheer engineering challenge and
scenic beauty of the place. It has the highest BG station on the IR. All
through the journey, he was the only occupant of the 1st class coach.

> Note the marked resemblance to the WCAM/2 & 3 electrics, which have
> undoubtedly been derived from this design. After all, BHEL had put up
a
> joint attempt with Hitachi, as I mentioned earlier.
>

Yes, there seems to be a marked resemblance between WCAM 2/3 and this
loco now that I think about it. In an effort to make this loco more
palatably 'Indian', Hitachi seems to have opted for the 'Indian
Standard' single headlight rather than double sealed headlights of the
ABB loco. What is the opinion of the gang about headlights right at
the roofline vs headline at waist level as in the WAPs ? Any one
footplated a WAPx at night ?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Scenic locations on the IR

Date: 19 Jul 1998 10:14:10 -0500


Hi gang,

One of my friends (a film maker) has just rung me up and asked me to
suggest 'scenic scenes' on the IR. He wants bridges, curves, viaducts,
ghats, tunnels places which show the IR in good light. This may result
into a film or whatever which may immortalize what we love most. The
scenes to be shot from land and also from air.

For a start:

180 degree curve at Barsoi, Adarki etc.
Viaducts on the KR
Long bridge at Rameshwaram over the Gulf of Mannar

Add your list please

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Scenic locations on the IR

Date: 19 Jul 1998 12:11:35 -0500


I don't know why, but I'm kind of partial to the long bridge between
Mughal
Sarai and Varanasi (rode it many times, but too long ago to remember
exact
name/location).

The trip on the Darjeeling train has many nice spots I like too, as does
the
Haridwar-Dehra Dun stretch.

I think part of the attraction of particular locations is related to
when
you pass through them - I'm sure many travellers have particularly fond
memories of the scenery they wake to on the last morning of a journey.

<sappy_poetic_moment>
Of course, there's nothing like walking across a large field on a farm
in,
say, rural Bengal (or anywhere else in India), and seeing a
near-silhouetted
steam train crossing just ahead, against a setting sun, seeing the trail
of
steam against a crimson sky and the last rays dancing through the
windows...but, sadly, that's now a thing of history. :(
</sappy_poetic_moment>

Shanku

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur [mailto:iti@giaspn01.email
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 1998 10:14 AM
To: Indian Railways Info Zone
Subject: Scenic locations on the IR


Hi gang,

One of my friends (a film maker) has just rung me up and asked me to
suggest 'scenic scenes' on the IR. He wants bridges, curves, viaducts,
ghats, tunnels places which show the IR in good light. This may result
into a film or whatever which may immortalize what we love most. The
scenes to be shot from land and also from air.

For a start:

180 degree curve at Barsoi, Adarki etc.
Viaducts on the KR
Long bridge at Rameshwaram over the Gulf of Mannar

Add your list please

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams

Date: 19 Jul 1998 21:12:53 -0500


Indeed.
Pantos of trams of yesteryear were officially called 'trolley poles',
as they were precisely that: a long polw with a trolley (pulley wheel)
attached at one end.This wheel ran along the wire, on the underside of
it.
Modern trams, like the ones you see in Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Stockholm
etc. use conventional twin or single collector pantographs.
In Manila, in the Philippines, the much flouted Mass Rapid Transit
system actually uses a tram set, which is fitted wiht half collector
pantos.
I read somewhere that Stockholm in Sweden has an unusual tram system:the
trams actually run onto the regular rail lines and rub shoulders wiht
regular trains for part of their route.
Hey, hey, hold on. This is supposed to be a forum on INDIAN rail, yes?If
its any consolation, I'm no longer as well read about overseas railways
as I used to be. Not that I ignore overseas railways completely,but I
do not dwell so deeply into them as I do with the IR.
Best regards.
Shankar




Anne O. wrote:
>
> > Thanks Anne for the drawing of the 'point'. While the train uses a
panto which
> > brushes the undeside of the catenary wire, the tram's wheel actually
rides above
> > the wire, is that right ?
>
> No - the wheel is below the wire - it's shaped like a pulley.
> The wheel *IS* the electrical contact with the wire. That's it's
> purpose.
>
> Imagine putting a pulley on the end of a long pole, then rolling the
> pulley along an overhead wire - that's how a trolley pulley works.

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: YP/YG Drawings: Query

Date: 20 Jul 1998 01:25:21 -0500


Received a mail from Philippe Quiot asking for sources
that may have drawings of the Telco-built YP/YG steam
locomotives. I wonder if there are any in the Jamshedpur
archives......does anyone on this list have an idea
where these could be found ? At CLW maybe ?

Please forward responses cc to tog-sa@he.email
--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

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