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From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Re: Ticketless travel (was India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats)

Date: 09 Jul 1998 17:31:44 -0500


Shanku

Nice comment! Makes me think of Bhowani Junction ....

Peter

----------
> From: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
> To: 'Peter Mosse' <pjcm@worldnet.email Indian Railways List
<irfca@cs.email
> Subject: RE: Ticketless travel (was India catches 10 million rail
ticket
cheats)
> Date: Thursday, July 09, 1998 4:48 PM
>
> You could lay some bizarre claim to being the last Anglo-Indian left
working
> in your division or something. ;)
>
> Shanku
>
> P.S. For those who don't know the term, Anglo-Indian refers to
children
> native to India but born of English ancestry.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 09 Jul 1998 21:02:42 -0500


Hi Gang !

Some excellent information sent to me by V(?) Date (Shashi's brother ?)-
please
introduce yourself and I would request you to become a regular member
of the
IRFCA. Details for joining IRFCA at Steven Brown's page
<A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail/irfca.htm">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail/irfca.htm</A>

Thanks

Apurva Bahadur

Vdate@aol.email wrote:

> Theere is atleast one instance where one more than number of members
> travelling is bought by a travelling family. I am talking about
Ramdevra fair
> in Rajasthan ( My rajasthani friends- help me out re. acccuracy).
During this
> fair people primarily from Rajasthan, MP and Gujerat make annual
piligrimage
> to the holy place of that sampradaya. Each family carries an image of
deity
> and buy the ticket for the diety. Nobody travels WT. NR likes it.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Good Old days !

Date: 09 Jul 1998 21:42:39 -0500


Hi Gang !

I remember chatting with an official of the Solapur division and he told
me the following story.
In the 'good old days' each WP or WG loco was assigned to a driver and
he took great interest in the upkeep and appearance of the loco. One
mail driver with his team of faithfuls (1 chief fireman and 2 assistant
firemen (to break the coal)) were working a WP hauling a train between
Daund and Solapur. During the run the driver made an irritated face and
the assistant looked out from the driver's side window. What irritated
the driver was a rag stuck near the cylinders of the spotless and
gleaming loco. The fireman instantly got off from the cab window and got
on to the catwalk (there is a step under the window for going direct
onto the catwalk), he walked around the loco and removed the offending
rag, then returning to the footplate - all this during the run.
I cannot say whether this actually happened, would a driver risk his
assistant's life just to keep his loco clean ? But then the values in
the 'good old days' were different, were they not ?

Inspite of breaking the 18 -20 tonnes of coal in a WP during a run, the
older steam (now diesel) drivers tell me that they were very happy in
those days. There was no blood pressure, no diabetes, no stress related
illness. Open cabs drenched them during rain and hot footplate seared
them in summer, but they were happy. One driver told me that the idea of
doing such physically demanding work in such close proximity meant that
the team spirit was very high. All the members of the footplate gang
ensured that they went on leave together so that the team would not
break up.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Anne O. <>

Subject: Re:Fw: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 10 Jul 1998 01:58:21 -0500


I usually travel without a ticket, especially in N. India.

I'm a hijra, and there's an old custom that hijras aren't asked for
tickets.

The TTE justs asks for the ticket, I tell him I'm a hijra, and often as
not he'll try to find me a berth.

But on longer trains it's a pain to travel second (you can't GET a
ticket just by saying you're a eunuch, you just get on and tell them,
so you can't get any reservations), so I often get a ticket.

When I travel alone I almost always get a ticket, as I feel self
conscious as a westerner claiming a free ride.


Annie
8*)

From: Riyaj Shaik <>

Subject: Re:Fw: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 10 Jul 1998 06:29:57 -0500


hi

I really have hard time believing that you can travel free if you are a
hijra etc. can any one confirm???

thanks

-------------------------------------------------------------
Planning to buy a book. Use the Search utility at cyberonline
to search across major online bookstores like amazon.com,
Barnes& Nobles, Books.com, etc for the cheapest price. go to
<A HREF="http://www.resoluteinc.com/cyberonline/user.htm">http://www.resoluteinc.com/cyberonline/user.htm</A>
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Anne O. wrote:

> I usually travel without a ticket, especially in N. India.
>
> I'm a hijra, and there's an old custom that hijras aren't asked for
> tickets.
>
> The TTE justs asks for the ticket, I tell him I'm a hijra, and often
as
> not he'll try to find me a berth.
>
> But on longer trains it's a pain to travel second (you can't GET a
> ticket just by saying you're a eunuch, you just get on and tell them,
> so you can't get any reservations), so I often get a ticket.
>
> When I travel alone I almost always get a ticket, as I feel self
> conscious as a westerner claiming a free ride.
>
>
> Annie
> 8*)
>
>
>

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>

Subject: Ticketless Riders

Date: 10 Jul 1998 06:57:00 -0500


Satish had an article about people riding without tickets in India. I
personally want to use it in its entirety in a local railfan newletter
the
Gondola Gazette (these are coal cars usually cut in half, or the large
coal, stone, gravel cars). I am the newsletter editor, and this is a
chapter of the National Railroad Historical Society called the Collis P.
Huntington, based in Huntington, WV but covering Western West Virginia,
Eastern Kentucky and Southern Ohio. I am willing to download the
newsletter if this group would be interested in it in exchange for the
article. It would have to be in English as my Hindi is non existent.
This
article was dated Bombay August 6th. My server has been down two days or
I
would have asked for it much sooner. Over 11 million ride the India
trains
a day. The number is so large that I can't get a grasp of it at all.

Thanks to all. Don in WV

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Ticketless travel

Date: 10 Jul 1998 10:46:57 -0500


It is not that the Hijras are allowed to travel ticketless.I guess the
Ticket checkers are afraid to take on a aggressive Eunuch, you see them
in
the Mumbai EMUs all the time. Also there is a legend about the
seriousness of
a Hijra's curse.

Apurva Bahadur

Riyaj Shaik wrote:

> hi
>
> I really have hard time believing that you can travel free if you are
a
> hijra etc. can any one confirm???
>
> thanks
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------
> Planning to buy a book. Use the Search utility at cyberonline
> to search across major online bookstores like amazon.com,
> Barnes& Nobles, Books.com, etc for the cheapest price. go to
> <A HREF="http://www.resoluteinc.com/cyberonline/user.htm">http://www.resoluteinc.com/cyberonline/user.htm</A>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Fri, 10 Jul 1998, Anne O. wrote:
>
> > I usually travel without a ticket, especially in N. India.
> >
> > I'm a hijra, and there's an old custom that hijras aren't asked for
> > tickets.
> >
> > The TTE justs asks for the ticket, I tell him I'm a hijra, and often
as
> > not he'll try to find me a berth.
> >
> > But on longer trains it's a pain to travel second (you can't GET a
> > ticket just by saying you're a eunuch, you just get on and tell
them,
> > so you can't get any reservations), so I often get a ticket.
> >
> > When I travel alone I almost always get a ticket, as I feel self
> > conscious as a westerner claiming a free ride.
> >
> >
> > Annie
> > 8*)
> >
> >
> >

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Appearance of Locomotives (was Good Old days !)

Date: 10 Jul 1998 11:10:15 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> In the 'good old days' each WP or WG loco was assigned to a driver and
> he took great interest in the upkeep and appearance of the loco. One
> mail driver with his team of faithfuls (1 chief fireman and 2
assistant
> firemen (to break the coal)) were working a WP hauling a train between
> Daund and Solapur. During the run the driver made an irritated face
and
> the assistant looked out from the driver's side window. What
irritated
> the driver was a rag stuck near the cylinders of the spotless and
> gleaming loco. The fireman instantly got off from the cab window and
got
> on to the catwalk (there is a step under the window for going direct
> onto the catwalk), he walked around the loco and removed the
offending
> rag, then returning to the footplate - all this during the run.
> I cannot say whether this actually happened, would a driver risk his
> assistant's life just to keep his loco clean ? But then the values in
> the 'good old days' were different, were they not ?
>

There is no question that when footplate crews had their own
locomotives,
those locos were taken care of much better. This was the normal
practice
in the earliest days of railways, but as competition toughened and the
cost
accountants got more involved there was obvious pressure to get more
utilisation out of the locos.

In some cases a compromise was reached where two crews would share a
loco
but this only applied to locos working prestige trains. Everything else
became common user and the condition of the engines suffered as a
result.

There were rare exceptions: South Africa and Thailand both retained
regular
crews and therefore had more than their share of 'supershine' locos
(including many with unofficial embellishments) right up to the end of
regular steam working.

As for the practice of walking round the framing of a loco while it is
in
motion, that also was relatively common in the earliest days as it was
necessary to lubricate the bearings quite frequently and sometimes, on
express trains, this could not wait for the next station. However, with
the design (by the end of the last century) of a system whereby oil was
placed in a receptacle and syphoned, drop by drop, from wicks on to the
bearings, this unsafe practice was no longer necessary, except in cases
of
emergency. It was, incidentally, the driver's responsibility to do
this,
not
the fireman's.

However, on some lines the practice continued long after it ceased to be
necessary and it was a principal factor in a very serious collision in
England in September 1913.

[ Anyone who considers I am wandering off topic should hit the delete
button at this point !! ]

This collision involved two overnight expresses from Scotland to London
which left Carlisle on the Midland Railway double track main line to
Leeds
at around 01.30 and 01.45. The route is steeply graded and the first
train
was slightly overloaded for the type of locomotive provided, but no
pilot
engine was available. Both engines had been coaled at Carlisle engine
shed
where there had been complaints from drivers for several weeks about
poor
quality coal. [ In fact it turned out in the subsequent official
enquiry
that the company had recently sent a representative to discuss this
problem
with the coal contractors. ]

Both locos had difficulty steaming and the first train stopped at around
03.00 to raise steam shortly before reaching the summit of the line at
Ais
Gill. The second train ran past distant and home signals at danger and
into the back of the first train. Many of the coaches in both trains
were
of wooden construction and lit by gas, with the result that fire broke
out
and 16 people died, mostly from the fire. A further 38 people were
injured.

What does this have to do with walking round the frames to oil the
engine
?? It came to light in the enquiry that the driver of the second train
was
doing just this when his train ran past the critical signals. His
fireman
was struggling with a difficult fire and low water in the boiler because
of
a faulty injector and the glare from the firebox would in any case have
made it very difficult for him to spot the oil-lit signals in the dark.
Consequently neither driver nor fireman actually saw the signals at
danger
and when they finally saw the red tail lamp of the stationery first
train
it was only 50 yards ahead and they couldn't stop in time.

It also turned out that it was normal practice for Carlisle drivers to
walk
round the frames at least once on the trip up to Ais Gill, despite the
railway company's official discouragement of the practice. Of course
the
practice ceased immediately after that collision.

The driver of the second train had been a railway servant for 40 years
and
a driver for the last 29. His record was unblemished and he had
received
several commendations for vigilance. It was a tragic way to end his
career.

Well, apologies again for wandering off topic, but I hope some people
may
have found this an interesting story.

On a final note, I was on a steam special in Pakistan last January with
a
class HGS 2-8-0. These locos have very wide catwalks on each side of
the
boiler and a large platform in front of the smokebox door (where I
sometimes travelled). To my amazement I saw that a fitter had stretched
himself out and gone to sleep on the catwalk above the driving wheels
WHILE
THE TRAIN WAS IN MOTION !!! Not that we travelled very fast, but then
the
track wasn't much good either so we were certainly rocking and rolling!

Peter Mosse

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: World Records

Date: 10 Jul 1998 12:18:06 -0500



Hi Everyone,

Yesterday, in my local library, I found a 1972 copy of Guinness
Book of World Records on sale for a dollar. Although Diesel and
Electric loco info has changed since then, info on Steam
certainly remains the same. Here are some records.

Most Powerful Steam Loco: The world's most powerful compound type
steam loco was No. 700, a triple articulated or triples, 2-8-8-8-
4 six cylinder engine built by Baldwin in 1916 for Virginian
Railway. It had a tractive force of 166,300 lbs. working compound
and 199,500 working simple. In 1918, this Railway operated a 4
cylinder compound 2-10-10-2 engine built by Alco with a starting
(i.e. working simple) tractive effort of 176,000 lbs. Probably
the heaviest train hauled by a single steam loco was one of
17,136 tons made up of 250 freight cars stretching 1.6 miles by
the Matt H. Shay (No. 5014), a 2-8-8-8-2 engine which ran on the
Erie Railroad from May 1914, until 1929.

Steepest Grade: The world's steepest standard gauge gradient by
adhesion is 1:11. This figure is achieved by Guatemalan State
Electric Railway between the Samala River bridge and Zunil.

Longest Straight Length: The longest straight in the world is on
the Commonwealth Railways Trans Australian line over the
Nullarbor Plains from mile 496 between Nuringa and Loongana,
Western Australia, to mile 793 between Oldea and Watson, South
Australia, 297 dead straight although not level.

Longest Electric line: The world's longest stretch of
electrified line is the 3,240 miles between Moscow and Irktusk in
Siberia completed in late 1960. (Note 1)

Longest Platform: The longest railroad platform in the world is
at Kharagpur, Bihar which measures 2,733 feet in length. The
State Street Center subway platform staging in "The Loop" in
Chicago, measures 3,500 feet in length.

Widest Gauge: The widest gauge in standard use is 5 feet 6
inches. It is used in India, Pakistan, Ceylon, Spain, Portugal,
Argentina and Chile. In 1883, there was a lumber railway in
Oregon with a gauge of 8 feet.

Note 1. National Geographic June 98 issue has an article on Trans
Siberian Railway, from Moscow to Vladivostok, spanning 5,770
miles. The timetable shows run time of 6 days, 12 hours and 25
minutes. It does not mention if the track between Irktusk and
Vladivostok is electrified or not.

More later.

Can someone shed light on differences between simple and compound
steam engine configuration?

Prakash

From: Anurag Acharya <>

Subject: Re: World Records

Date: 10 Jul 1998 13:04:30 -0500



>Longest Platform: The longest railroad platform in the world is
>at Kharagpur, Bihar which measures 2,733 feet in length. The
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>State Street Center subway platform staging in "The Loop" in
>Chicago, measures 3,500 feet in length.


Ahem. And I used to think my years in Kharagpur were spent in West
Bengal :)

anurag

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: World Records

Date: 10 Jul 1998 14:59:19 -0500


Anurag,

I have no idea whether Kharagpur is in Bihar and West Bengal.
I just copied whatever was in the book. If you need the publisher's
address, it is:
Sterling Publishing Co., Inc.
419 Park Ave. South
New York, NY 10016

ISBN 0-8069-0008-3
0009-1

Prakash

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Re: World Records

Date: 10 Jul 1998 15:18:26 -0500


Prakash Tendulkar wrote

> Yesterday, in my local library, I found a 1972 copy of Guinness
> Book of World Records on sale for a dollar......

Following are some comments:

> Steepest Grade: The world's steepest standard gauge gradient by
> adhesion is 1:11. This figure is achieved by Guatemalan State
> Electric Railway between the Samala River bridge and Zunil.

This is highly suspect. I don't believe there have ever been electric
railway operations in Guatemala. As far as I am aware, Costa Rica was
the
only country in Central America with an electric railway (FC Electrico
al
Pacifico) but I think this has now closed. In addition, neither country
has standard gauge (3' in Guatemala and 3' 6" in Costa Rica).

> Longest Electric line: The world's longest stretch of
> electrified line is the 3,240 miles between Moscow and Irktusk in
> Siberia completed in late 1960. (Note 1)

Now electrified throughout (9297 km)

> Widest Gauge: The widest gauge in standard use is 5 feet 6
> inches. It is used in India, Pakistan, Ceylon, Spain, Portugal,
> Argentina and Chile. In 1883, there was a lumber railway in
> Oregon with a gauge of 8 feet.

While not as wide as 8', the Great Western Railway in England, when
originally built, had a gauge of 7' 0 1/4" and as early as 1846 the down
morning express from London (Paddington) was scheduled to run non-stop
to
Didcot (53 miles) in 65 min (average speed of 48 mph). By 1852, the
schedule had been tightened to 60 min, so these trains were very speedy
for
the period. However, as time passed, the inconvenience of having
different
gauges outweighed the benefit of superior performance which the broad
gauge
gave and the company's lines were progressively regauged or dual gauged.

In 1892 the remaining broad gauge lines were converted to standard gauge
but even up to the moment that the final conversion started it was still
possible to travel the 325 miles between London (Paddington) and
Penzance
on a broad gauge train. So the 7' gauge was used extensively for over
50
years by one of the pre-eminent British companies.

There is a comprehensive table of railway gauges worldwide at
<A HREF="http://pavel.physics.sunysb.edu/RR/misc.html">http://pavel.physics.sunysb.edu/RR/misc.html</A>

Peter Mosse

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: World Records

Date: 10 Jul 1998 15:24:42 -0500


Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

> Anurag,
>
> I have no idea whether Kharagpur is in Bihar and West Bengal.
> I just copied whatever was in the book. If you need the publisher's
> address, it is:
> Sterling Publishing Co., Inc.
> 419 Park Ave. South
> New York, NY 10016
>
> ISBN 0-8069-0008-3
> 0009-1
>
> Prakash

Yes, I have a copy of that book, and one of the things that caught my
attention in that book was the larger than I expected number of easy to
verify errors like the one about the location of Kharagpur - which of
course leaves one wondering about what other errors are lurking of the
harder to verify variety.:-(

Jishnu.

From: Vdate <>

Subject: Brach lines losing money

Date: 10 Jul 1998 15:39:06 -0500


As reported in The Hindu dated Sat.July 11, Shri Ram Naik, the Minister
of
State for Railways for Govt of India, replied to an question in the
parliament
and stated that 120 branch lines are losing money and solution sought is
"
reducing staff, curtailing service and reducing infrastructure."
Passenger
railway systems in many countries have gone down that slippery slope to
near
oblivion. IR needs to more creative if they really want to save the
branch
lines!

From: sank <>

Subject: Re: Don's ideas for IR profitability

Date: 10 Jul 1998 22:00:29 -0500


> Look into getting Budd Cars as they are self-propelled and can
> meet the service guidelines on many low passenger volume routes.
India HAS been developing DMUs.....but if you mean single-unit
vehicles I do not know of any. Perhaps something like the British
experiment with road-going buses (blasphemous !! ;) )on rails may work ?
Some TELCO buses in Sri Lanka seem to have been similarly adapted
(Yes, yes, I know I work with a manufacturer of (ugh) road vehicles,
but then they did make BEAUTIFUL meter gauge steam locos in their
glorious past !!!). Do Budd still make stainless-steel cars ?
> And by all means encourage the depot persons responsible to
> adamantly collect train tickets.
Fully in agreement. I always bought full tickets for footplate rides,
and it will help IR if all us fans actively endorse ticketed travel.

Thanks for the insights, Don.

--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>

Subject: Re: Brach lines losing money

Date: 10 Jul 1998 22:15:47 -0500


Hope I can make a suggestion here, Fight as hard as you can to keep your
branch lines, They are only the beginning. If they go some major trains
will be canceled as well.

Get in touch with the Politicos and fight for everyone. Don't be
selective
and go out of your way to try and keep everyone on this list from India
with one goal in mind. To keep all train service, the politicians will
try
to divide and conquer so to speak. By getting one section of India
against
another so that one section gets more train service than another.

Try to get mail service to stay on the rails, this will ensure some type
of
passenger service. You can do this by working toward having mail trains
carry at least one passenger car much like Mail express is being done on
Amtrak, (probably not a good suggestion, but a thought)

Also you might look to France, they have the majority of their original
branch lines still operating. Look into getting Budd Cars as they are
self
propelled and can meet the service guidelines on many low passenger
volume
routes.

Look to religious festivals and tourist attractions on branch lines to
spur
railroad business.

Try to have fares on lower volume lines lowered to spur ridership. Raise
the fares on more popular (major inner city routes) routes to offset
this
cost.

Also have people from IR rail set up a political agenda to vocally
support
Rail supporters and openly vocally object to those against rail. It
will
require fund raising to help get this group underway.

And by all means encourage the depot persons responsible to adamantly
collect train tickets. I realize after reading several emails that many
of
you have gotten free rides and some have even been ticketed. IR rail
cannot go on losing the vast amounts of money each year and expect to
keep
quality service. You need to ask a question, Do you want to have rail
service? If so, are you willing to pay for it, or ride free and see it
go
by the wayside.

Actively seek out the support of groups with rail agendas, such as Rail
Unions, Safety networks, environmental groups, marketing groups,
shippers
etc.,,,

There is an old expression that fits here better than ever. The India
Rail
enthusiast, rail fans and travelers need to work together or fall apart.

An Americanism---United We Stand-Divided We Fall.

Best to All,
Don in WV

----------
> From: Vdate@aol.email
> To: irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Brach lines losing money
> Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 6:39 PM
>
> As reported in The Hindu dated Sat.July 11, Shri Ram Naik, the
Minister
of
> State for Railways for Govt of India, replied to an question in the
parliament
> and stated that 120 branch lines are losing money and solution sought
is
"
> reducing staff, curtailing service and reducing infrastructure."
Passenger
> railway systems in many countries have gone down that slippery slope
to
near
> oblivion. IR needs to more creative if they really want to save the
branch
> lines!

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Query: Calcutta Metro

Date: 11 Jul 1998 11:14:06 -0500




Shankar wrote:

> I THINK THE METRO USES STANDARD GAUGE TRACK.
> POWER SUPPLY IS ON 900 V DC, 3RD RAIL ELECTRIFICATION.
> THE STOCK IS BUILT BY ICF MADRAS, WITH ELECTRICALS BY NGEF BANGALORE.
> THE ROLLING STOCK IS UNIQUE IN THAT THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES IN INDIA
> WITH END MOUNTED CAB DOORS,I.E. THE MOTOR MAN GETS ON FROM THE VERY
> FRONT OF THE CAB, I.E. FROM ABOVE THE COUPLER.

This is not correct, the motorman's entry door in in the 'normal' place

> APART FROM THE LOW SLUNG PROFILE, TEH CARS ARE AIR COOLED, WITH
BLOWERS.
> SOME OF THE CARS ARE VERY NOISY INDEED.
> THE DOORS ARE CONNECTED TO THE DRIVE MECHANISM: THE TRAIN WILL NOT
START

This is correct, sometimes back, the safety mechanism snarled and the
door
opened during a run. Fortunately there was no casuality.

> UNLESS THE DOORS ARE CLOSED.
> BEFORE EVERY STATION, THERE IS AN ANNOUNCEMENT IN THREE LANGUAGES:
> ENGLISH, HINDI AND BENGALI. TEH DOORS OPEN AND CLOSE AUTOMATICALLY.
> MAX. SPEED I THINK IS 75 KMPH.
> ONLY 25% OF THE TRACKAGE IS REALLY UNDERGROUND. THE REST IS EITHER AT
> GROUND LEVEL OR ELEVATED.

Only the ends of the tracks at Dum Dum and Tolleygung are above the
ground,
rest are all underground.

Apurva Bahadur

> I SHALL POST IF I CAN THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE.
> BEST REGARDS.
> SHANKAR.
>
> sank@telco.email wrote:
> >
> > Somehow seem to have missed out: Can someone
> > give me specs on the Cal Metro ? The
> > track gauge, current supply, type of rakes etc.....
> >
> > Tha
>
> > --
> > Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
> > Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
> > TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
> > --

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Appearance of Locomotives (was Good Old days !)

Date: 11 Jul 1998 12:09:15 -0500




Peter Mosse wrote:

> Well, apologies again for wandering off topic, but I hope some people
may
> have found this an interesting story.

It is a very interesting story. The sort of stories only railway nuts
can tell
each other and find appreciative audience.

>
>
> On a final note, I was on a steam special in Pakistan last January
with a
> class HGS 2-8-0. These locos have very wide catwalks on each side of
the
> boiler and a large platform in front of the smokebox door (where I
> sometimes travelled). To my amazement I saw that a fitter had
stretched
> himself out and gone to sleep on the catwalk above the driving wheels
WHILE
> THE TRAIN WAS IN MOTION !!! Not that we travelled very fast, but then
the
> track wasn't much good either so we were certainly rocking and
rolling!

The fitter was obviously in a comfortable place. Between Pune & Mumbai,
I have
seen guys sleep in the passage between the two cabs of the DC electrics,
including the deafening WCG 2. I even remember some class 4 employees
sleeping
in the passage of a WCG 2 (hauling Indrayani Exp towards Mumbai) in the
dark
(the passage lights had failed and the driver's had to use their torches
while
going from one cab to another (often to verify the calibration of the
instruments in the other cab compared to this cab) while stepping over
sleeping
people. I remember that during this run, a fire extinguisher came adrift
in the
passage and discharged inside the dark passage, in the front cab it
sounded
like an explosion of sorts with white fumes clouding the air.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Contact with WDG 2 locos

Date: 11 Jul 1998 12:18:56 -0500


Message forwarded, the info may interest many of us.

Larry Russell wrote:

> >> > I was really late for a meeting so I did not stop
> >> >for a closer look but I soon will see them again, I hope.
> >>
> >> Which ones were they???
> >>
> >
> >The serial numbers ? - could not read, I had no time to stop the car
and
> >investigate, by the time I was returned, they were gone. The serial
> >numbers of WDG 2s is in 14000 series.
> >
> >> The WDM3's were Henschel built (their own design) and by all
accounts,
> >>>not very sucessful in India, despite Henschel's long association
with
> >> hydraulics.
> >
> >Any more details, pictures, which was the prime mover ?
> Henschel model was DHG2500BB, engine was Mercedes Benz MD108DZ20.
Locos
> built 1970 loco numbers 18515-22 were works # 31300-07.
> sorry, no pix, although Janes World Railways had a picture in an older
issue.
>
> >I have seen the
> >locos dead in Gooty shed but from a distance. The balance between the
> >long (loooong?) hood and the short hood was very interesting. Is
there a
> >book on IR's Diesels ? Are you the author of such a (proposed?) book
?
>
> Data supplied by my good friend Philip Graham of Australia. Books on
the
> subject are by Hugh Hughes "Steam Locomotives of India" - Part 1 &
Part 2,
> CRC, England 1977 and 1980.
>
> >What are the origins of the WDS 4 Diesel Hyd shunter, is it also
> >Henschel ?
>
> WDS4's are Chittaranjan built and a development of the WDS2's and
WDS3's.
> WDS2's were Kraus Maffei, WDS3's were MaK.
>
> >What were the controls of the WDG 2, that you drove at the DLW like ?
> >Was there a rotary wheel instead of a throttle bar ? What may be the
> >reason behind reversing (driver on the left) the driving position ?
> >
> Very awkward compared to a normal control... used the wheel type
control.
> It took a bit of getting used to, but I learned rapidly and had no
trouble.
> Very disconcerting, since it's not as easy to tell the throttle
position as
> with a lever. WDG'2 also have dual control as I remember although as
you
> stated, it's all backward.
> Larry

Now that it is confirmed that the WDG 2 has a wheel type control, what
may be the
reason for DLW to adopt this type of a control ? The wheel normally is
atop a
rotary drum contactor, but in a diesel loco ? Again I still wish to have
your
comment, as to why the loco has a reversed seating arrangement. Is is to
standardize signal sightings as with the electric locos whose driver
sits on the
left hand seat ?
Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: DMU pix

Date: 11 Jul 1998 13:42:25 -0500


Hi Gang,

Here are some pix of the DMU (more specifically the DEMU - Diesel
Electric Multiple Unit) train which will be increasingly common in the
next few years. My association with the DEMU is that the engine control
panel for the prime mover (Cummins VTA 1710L of 705 HP) is designed and
manufactures by my company.

Please click on the url to see the pic

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DETC1.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DETC1.jpg</A>
To start on a false note, this is not a DEMU but a DETC (diesel electric
tower car)- used for OHE maintenance. The reason that this pic is here
is that this is from the same family of self propelled trains. Also in
the offing are self propelled accident relief train and medical relief
van / hospital train.
Note the all weather 'Cockpit' on the roof from which the ride of the
pantograph is observed during run. Note the folded panto near the
cockpit. Note also the 'tower' or the hydraulic platform in the middle
of the roof that can be swung onto the
adjacent line if required. The large sloping roof mounted item towards
the front is the radiator for the engine. This DETC is homed at
Bhusaval.
The rollers on the platform in the foreground is to prevent stray cattle
onto the platform.

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DMU1.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DMU1.jpg</A>
This is a three coach DEMU at the washing siding of Madgaon (Goa) Jn.
of Konkan Railway. This is the non engine driving end (knows as DTC -
driving trailer car).

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DMU2.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DMU2.jpg</A>
This is the same DEMU at Verna (also in Goa) showing the engine room
details. The V 12 engine and the traction alternator is in the room
behind the driver's cab. The silencer, and radiator fan can be clearly
seen. This DEMU uses the Side Mounted Radiator pack while the DETC shows
the Roof Mounted pack. This coach is referred to as DPC (driving power
car).
The rake carries the South Central marking, is operated by Konkan
Railways and is part owned by the Govt. of Goa (some sort of Own your
wagon scheme ?)& Konkan Rail. Today this train runs from Karwar
(Northern Karnataka) to Ratnagiri (Konkan, Maharashtra), while traveling
through Goa.

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DMU3.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/DMU/DMU3.jpg</A>
Three coach formation stabled at Madgaon road 2. Spare DEMU coach (TC -
Trailer Car) stands to the left.

This pix and many more pix will be soon found on my new website
(whenever that will be complete :) )

Apurva Bahadur

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