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From: Jayant S <>

Subject: [Fwd: SF Bay IRFC meet

Date: 06 Jul 1998 02:43:32 -0500


--
Jayant S : ID Studio
Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri TEL: 91 (212) 774261 ex 2534
PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA FAX: 91 (212) 773191

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Re: SF Bay IRFC meet

Date: 06 Jul 1998 20:10:40 -0500


On Mon, 6 Jul 1998, VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:

>
> > Yes it is high time, I am also watching with alarm, we who are in
the heart of
> > action choose not to meet at all. Okay if Pune Mumbai is not
possible, how
> > about Pune - Pune and likewise. Jayant, your comments ?
>
> Lets make it 50-50 how about Karjat - Porus are you game?
>
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
> ==========================
>

PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237


Viraf,
I am game to meeting anywhere but IDEALLY we should meet in Pune or as
you
said somewhere at Karjat or Lonavla. Frankly speaking I am ready to go
anywhere in India for meeting all railfans.


Poras.

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Kurla - Howrah A/c Express

Date: 07 Jul 1998 04:18:13 -0500



Hi Gang,
I am back after a brief lull since I was busy with work. Can anybody
tell me when is the Kurla Howrah A/c Express having its inaugural run
from
Mumbai ? Well IR has done it again -: first it was Janata trains then
it was swarnajayanti trains and now the latest is LOK SHAKTI EXPRESS
FROM
BCT TO AHMEDABAD. The above train is in place of 7dn Ahmedabad janata
Express. Timings are same but the train is super stopper halting at
most
of the small stations, and the original 7DN has been converted to Bandra
Terminus - Jaipur express and the no. is still 9307 dn.

Folks any news when is our electrical lines will change so that We can
see
some good locos around mumbai from all other parts of India.

Well as we have been talking about the meet why don't we all meet at
Pune
as that would be the best place for meeting. Let others have their
suggestion and then see which place Mumbai or Pune is mentioned most and
then as the case may be we can meet. Frankly speaking even Igatpuri or
Devlali would be ideal, what with monsoon and WAM's whizzing past us.
Come on folks ! its becoming more exciting.

Can some one from Delhi pass me the info on what is the train available
from Chandigarh to NDLS. Please let me know as I am planning my
honeymoon
to North India.

Thanks,


PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Accurate Titles (was SF Bay IRFC meet)

Date: 07 Jul 1998 08:08:11 -0500


I have a suggestion.

Can list participants try to give accurate titles to their messages?
For
example it is odd to find that a message entitled 'Re: SF Bay IRFC meet'
is
actually about possible meetings in India !! Why not call such a
message
'IRFC Meeting in ....' ??

I am sure all of us suffer from e-mail overload and accurate titles help
us
quickly delete messages that don't affect us. Inaccurate titles either
waste time or may result in a message that does affect us being deleted
unread.

Peter Mosse

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: Accurate Titles (was SF Bay IRFC meet)

Date: 07 Jul 1998 08:47:36 -0500



Peter,

I agree with you. I would go one step further. Why not these local
groups (including SF Bay area) create a separate mailing list for
local affairs? I receive over 150 business e-mail every day and
cannot afford to receive too much e-mail that is unrelated to
business or IRFC affairs. It takes too much of a time to download,
especially when you are away from office.

Prakash

Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
DB2 Technical Consultant, Vendor Partnership Program



pjcm@worldnet.email on 07/07/98 08:31:18 AM
Please respond to pjcm@worldnet.email
To: irfca@cs.email
cc:
Subject: Accurate Titles (was SF Bay IRFC meet)


I have a suggestion.

Can list participants try to give accurate titles to their messages?
For
example it is odd to find that a message entitled 'Re: SF Bay IRFC meet'
is
actually about possible meetings in India !! Why not call such a
message
'IRFC Meeting in ....' ??

I am sure all of us suffer from e-mail overload and accurate titles help
us
quickly delete messages that don't affect us. Inaccurate titles either
waste time or may result in a message that does affect us being deleted
unread.

Peter Mosse

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Fw: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 07 Jul 1998 12:41:32 -0500



Excerpt from a news article:

BOMBAY, July 6 (AFP) - Almost 10 million Indians were caught
travelling without tickets on the state-owned railway network in the
year to March 1998, reports said Monday.
[...]
Fines worth one billion rupees (25 million dollars) were
collected.
[...]

----------------------------------------------------------------

IR carries around 11M passengers a day. So 10M out of 11M x 90 days,
well,
let's say for simplicity 1% of the passengers were caught travelling
ticketless. 1% of course sounds too low. What is the factor to account
for the uncaught ticketless passengers? Multiply by 10? :-)

-Satish

From: Anne O. <>

Subject: Re: Accurate Titles/ local discussions

Date: 07 Jul 1998 20:01:05 -0500


Prakash Tendulkar wrote
>
> I agree with you. I would go one step further. Why not these local
> groups (including SF Bay area) create a separate mailing list for
> local affairs?

OK - then we need to have a local coordinator. I'm willing to be it for
the SF bay, since I suggested it.
Request that everybody who wants notified when/where about the SF bay
meeting contact me at anniepoo@netmagic.email

From: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <>

Subject: Re: Kurla - Howrah A/c Express

Date: 08 Jul 1998 01:17:42 -0500


--"poras p.saklatwalla " <pps@godrejnet.email wrote:
>
>
> Hi Gang,

> Can some one from Delhi pass me the info on what is the train
available
> from Chandigarh to NDLS. Please let me know as I am planning my
honeymoon
> to North India.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
> TEL :5773535/3636
> EXT :4226/4232/4237

Hello Poras,

You have the following trains from Chandigarh to New Delhi.
Approx. Dep Time Approx. Arr.Time
1. Kalka-NDLS Shatabdi Exp. 6.45 10.00
2. Chandigarh-NDLS Shatabdi Exp. 12.45 15.45
3. Kalka-Howrah Mail 00.45 6.30 (Delhi)
4. Kalka-NDLS Himalayan Queen 17.35 22.15

Please consult latest Trains at Glance for correct timings.
Bye,

-- Shrinivas


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at <A HREF="http://mail.yahoo.com">http://mail.yahoo.com</A>

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Chandigarh Query by Poras

Date: 08 Jul 1998 03:23:56 -0500


.....got it from a friend that the best way to
travel Delhi-Chandigarh is by ROAD-GOING bus.
But then that would be sheer blasphemy, right ?
--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Sikkim (NF) Railway Query

Date: 08 Jul 1998 03:40:04 -0500


Hi All:
Just found out at:
<A HREF="http://m-web.com/rh001.html">http://m-web.com/rh001.html</A>
That a (presumably MG) line from Sevoke
to Gangtok was to be surveyed according
to last year's rail budget. Is this
still on the agenda ?

(Someday, a preserved YP may yet puff
its way up the Teesta Valley ? Dreams....)
--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re:Fw: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 08 Jul 1998 10:06:42 -0500


Hi Satish,

Railways are also partly responsible for the ticket less traveling.
Whole
families of railway men travel ticketless at times.
On some sections like Daund Baramati, we were the only 'fools' (?)
buying
tickets. So too in Madhya Pradesh, the station staff were surprised that
we
actually wanted to buy tickets. But suburban Mumbai is the other end,
where you
are very likely to be caught, if traveling ticketless. To see the
efficiency
of the ticket checkers one should stand (with a valid ticket ! ) on the
flyover
connecting the Dadar Central with the Dadar Western station. Hardly a
minute
goes by without a 'catch'. Still there are guys in Mumbai who never buy
a
ticket on the suburban line. They reckon that the odds of being caught
and
being made to pay a fine is cheaper than buying a ticket regularly. In
the peak
hours even buying a ticket may take upto 1/2 hour just to reach the
booking
window. I read a newspaper item about these ticketless daredevils
sometime back.
When I go to Mumbai, I prefer traveling first class, not only because of
less
'crush loads' but also because the 1st class ticket has a separate line
(usually smaller) although the ticket is sold from the same window.

News in the past days:

The suburban Mumbai train now runs to Panvel as well. This completes the
New
Mumbai rail line. across the creek to Vashi and the line now joins the
Konkan
Railway at Panvel.
Netravati Exp has been speeded up in the Down (Mumbai - Mangalore)
direction.
The Up timings are the same.
Pune has a narrow (3 person wide) escalator from the PF 1 to PF 2 side.
It is apparently the first on the CR. The escalator was ordered by
Suresh Kalmadi when he was the minister but was inaugurated only
recently.

Apurva Bahadur

>S Pai wrote:

> Excerpt from a news article:
>
> BOMBAY, July 6 (AFP) - Almost 10 million Indians were caught
> travelling without tickets on the state-owned railway network in the
> year to March 1998, reports said Monday.
> [...]
> Fines worth one billion rupees (25 million dollars) were
> collected.
> [...]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> IR carries around 11M passengers a day. So 10M out of 11M x 90 days,
well,
> let's say for simplicity 1% of the passengers were caught travelling
> ticketless. 1% of course sounds too low. What is the factor to
account
> for the uncaught ticketless passengers? Multiply by 10? :-)
>
> -Satish

From: Regis Brid <>

Subject: Lunch tomorrow with Kris Nye

Date: 08 Jul 1998 10:23:03 -0500


Hi guys,
Kris will come tomorrow noon for lunch. thx, -regis

From: Sachin P Keshavan <>

Subject: The Time Table software

Date: 08 Jul 1998 10:44:57 -0500


Hi all,
There was a posting here regarding a Time Table software. The author
required volunteers to test the software. I am volunteering, but can
some one tell me what exactly the software is, how it works and whom
should I contact to get the software.

Bye for now,
Sachin.
*********************************************************************
Sachin PK,
Software Engineer, Intelligent Software Solutions Pvt. Ltd.
E Mail: sachin_pk@hotmail.email
Home page: <A HREF="http://209.67.19.99/~sachin_pk">http://209.67.19.99/~sachin_pk</A>
Telephone: +91-80-3314500
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------
Ae mere Watan ke logon ..... zara aankh me barlo paani...
Jo shaheed hue jo unke ... yaad karo kurbani ...

Remembering the brave men of the Indian Armed Forces...
*********************************************************************


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re:Fw: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 08 Jul 1998 15:05:47 -0500


Apurva,

> But suburban Mumbai is the other end, where you are very
> likely to be caught, if traveling ticketless.

I disagree with you. I wrote my personal reply to Satish
yesterday but did not copy it to IRFCA because I thought
it was not worth bothering so many e-mail boxes. Efficiency
of Mumbai TC may be good but there are folks who never get
trapped. From experience, I can guarantee that one with
right contacts can travel from BCT to NDLS in Rajdhani
without paying a dime to Railways. Here is my reply to
Satish based on my experience.

I plan to visit Mumbai next January and I'll keep you
guys updated.

Prakash
=================================

Satish,

10% would be about right. 1% were caught simply reflects the
number of passengers who opted for a receipt rather than settling.
The fine for ticketless travel is in the tune of couple of hundred
or more rupees. So it may be possible to settle for a hundred
rupees and no receipt. It also does not account for those who were
not caught.

When I visited Mumbai five years back, I bought a first class monthly
pass from Virar to Churchgate. However, I stayed in Mumbai for 40 days.
My b-in-law commented that this pass will expire only when my flight
departs from Sahar airport. I tried stopping in front of TCs but they
would just push me around and ask for ticket to someone behind me.

As you can see, I am not an offender. I made every effort to see that
they catch me, but they did not pay any attention. I do not know if it
was my personality or the motorman's handles that I carried in my hand
all the time, worked like a charm. Neverthless I did pay for 30 days
of travel.

The bottom line is, 40 days travel on 30 day pass would mean either 25%
or 33.3% ticketless travel, depending upon how you derive the numbers.

Prakash

Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
DB2 Technical Consultant, Vendor Partnership Program



spai@aya.email on 07/07/98 01:01:34 PM
Please respond to spai@aya.email
To: irfca@cs.email
cc:
Subject: Fwd: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats



Excerpt from a news article:

BOMBAY, July 6 (AFP) - Almost 10 million Indians were caught
travelling without tickets on the state-owned railway network in the
year to March 1998, reports said Monday.
[...]
Fines worth one billion rupees (25 million dollars) were
collected.
[...]

----------------------------------------------------------------

IR carries around 11M passengers a day. So 10M out of 11M x 90 days,
well,
let's say for simplicity 1% of the passengers were caught travelling
ticketless. 1% of course sounds too low. What is the factor to account
for the uncaught ticketless passengers? Multiply by 10? :-)

-Satish

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>

Subject: Re:Fw: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 08 Jul 1998 16:48:18 -0500


Satish had an article about people riding without tickets in India. I
personally want to use it in its entirety in a local railfan newletter
the
Gondola Gazette (these are coal cars usually cut in half, or the large
coal, stone, gravel cars). I am the newsletter editor, and this is a
chapter of the National Railroad Historical Society called the Collis P.
Huntington, based in Huntington, WV but covering Western West Virginia,
Eastern Kentucky and Southern Ohio. I am willing to download the
newsletter if this group would be interested in it in exchange for the
article. It would have to be in English as my Hindi is non existent.
This
article was dated Bombay August 6th. My server has been down two days or
I
would have asked for it much sooner. Over 11 million ride the India
trains
a day. The number is so large that I can't get a grasp of it at all.

Thanks to all. Don in WV

----------
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email
> To: S Pai <spai@aya.email
> Cc: Indian Railways List <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Fwd: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats
> Date: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 1:06 PM
>
> Hi Satish,
>
> Railways are also partly responsible for the ticket less traveling.
> Whole
> families of railway men travel ticketless at times.
> On some sections like Daund Baramati, we were the only 'fools' (?)
> buying
> tickets. So too in Madhya Pradesh, the station staff were surprised
that
> we
> actually wanted to buy tickets. But suburban Mumbai is the other end,
> where you
> are very likely to be caught, if traveling ticketless. To see the
> efficiency
> of the ticket checkers one should stand (with a valid ticket ! ) on
the
> flyover
> connecting the Dadar Central with the Dadar Western station. Hardly a
> minute
> goes by without a 'catch'. Still there are guys in Mumbai who never
buy
> a
> ticket on the suburban line. They reckon that the odds of being caught
> and
> being made to pay a fine is cheaper than buying a ticket regularly. In
> the peak
> hours even buying a ticket may take upto 1/2 hour just to reach the
> booking
> window. I read a newspaper item about these ticketless daredevils
> sometime back.
> When I go to Mumbai, I prefer traveling first class, not only because
of
> less
> 'crush loads' but also because the 1st class ticket has a separate
line
> (usually smaller) although the ticket is sold from the same window.
>
> News in the past days:
>
> The suburban Mumbai train now runs to Panvel as well. This completes
the
> New
> Mumbai rail line. across the creek to Vashi and the line now joins the
> Konkan
> Railway at Panvel.
> Netravati Exp has been speeded up in the Down (Mumbai - Mangalore)
> direction.
> The Up timings are the same.
> Pune has a narrow (3 person wide) escalator from the PF 1 to PF 2
side.
> It is apparently the first on the CR. The escalator was ordered by
> Suresh Kalmadi when he was the minister but was inaugurated only
> recently.
>
> Apurva Bahadur
>
> >S Pai wrote:
>
> > Excerpt from a news article:
> >
> > BOMBAY, July 6 (AFP) - Almost 10 million Indians were caught
> > travelling without tickets on the state-owned railway network in the
> > year to March 1998, reports said Monday.
> > [...]
> > Fines worth one billion rupees (25 million dollars) were
> > collected.
> > [...]
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > IR carries around 11M passengers a day. So 10M out of 11M x 90
days,
well,
> > let's say for simplicity 1% of the passengers were caught travelling
> > ticketless. 1% of course sounds too low. What is the factor to
account
> > for the uncaught ticketless passengers? Multiply by 10? :-)
> >
> > -Satish

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>

Subject: Re: Chandigarh Query by Poras

Date: 08 Jul 1998 17:49:11 -0500


Jayant---Don't say nasty words like Bus and riding in the same sentence.

Thats worse than Blasphemy.
Don in WV

----------
> From: Jayant S <sank@telco.email
> To: IR List <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Chandigarh Query by Poras
> Date: Wednesday, July 08, 1998 6:23 AM
>
> .....got it from a friend that the best way to
> travel Delhi-Chandigarh is by ROAD-GOING bus.
> But then that would be sheer blasphemy, right ?
> --
> Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
> Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
> TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
> --

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Ticketless travel (was India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats)

Date: 09 Jul 1998 07:59:51 -0500


Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

....... I do not know if it was my personality or the motorman's handles
that I carried in my hand all the time, worked like a charm.

======

I like this technique.

But carrying motorman's handles around would probably not work for a
foreigner !!

Peter Mosse

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Contact with WDG 2 locos

Date: 09 Jul 1998 11:05:09 -0500


Hi Gang

Today was my first sighting of the elusive WDG 2 loco. There were 2
locos in MU, both long hood leading and both sporting the orange and
cream livery similar to the picture I had uploaded. Both the locos had
the balding forehead short hoods. They were from Pune shed and were
standing at the Khadki PF 1 on the down line (facing Pune). The load was
a moderate (considering the double headed, high horse power power [well,
for Indian Diesel standards !], high adhesion bogies - the works), it
was a standard rake of about 40 BCN/BCNA covered eight wheelers. This
was one of the brakeless (no guard's van/caboose)short distance (from
Lonavala yard to
Ghorpadi yard ?) freight trains. I was really late for a meeting so I
did not stop
for a closer look but I soon will see them again, I hope.


Here is the URL picture of the WDG 2 uploaded earlier on my website

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/wdg2.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/wdg2.jpg</A>

Can anyone in the whole wide world tell me the origins of the WDM3
diesel hydraulic loco (dead and forgotten) which were homing at Gooty.
I have a great suspicion (after seeing pictures of Alco RS (?) and
comparing the
rooflines and hoods) that it was actually an Alco design. Did Alco ever
export diesel hydraulics ? Had this been a query about a steam loco, I
would have got the answer in a jiffy, but is the diesel and electric
history of the IR recorded somewhere ? What about the books published by
RR Bhandari or the National Rail Museum ?

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re:Fw: India catches 10 million rail ticket cheats

Date: 09 Jul 1998 11:13:52 -0500


> From experience, I can guarantee that one with
> right contacts can travel from BCT to NDLS in Rajdhani
> without paying a dime to Railways.

I'd like to do that sometimes, BCT - NDLS free, preferably on the
footplate -
dream on.....


> I do not know if it
> was my personality or the motorman's handles that I carried in my hand
> all the time, worked like a charm.

I once footplated to Mumbai by the Deccan Queen and was was caught at
the exit of CSTM for a ticket although I was obviously going out with
the driver and
engaged in a very animated conversation with him. Luckily, I had an
ordinary
ticket, although that was not valid for the superfast DQ, the Ticket
Checker ignored that faux pas.
I just remembered, the same driver was 'caught' by a ticket checker on
the Pune platform for a ticket !!! Being a gentleman's gentleman he
pleaded
with the checker that he was a driver. Had I been in the driver's
shoes, I
would have socked the young TC in the eye for asking an A special driver
of the
Mumbai division for a ticket ! After all he had just hauled in the
previous train and it was the hard work and dedication of his type that
made the railways work, not the busybody attitude of the TC. My personal
thoughts of course.
Once I got caught in the Central section of Dadar with a Western Railway
return ticket. I did not know that. In Mumbai I stay with friends who
are on
the WR, but I had time to kill so what better pastime than to chat with
incoming
CR drivers. Unfortunately I got caught- like Prakash says, it must be my
personality, I guess ! Still I got off the hook by bluffing that I was a
railwayman and I was from Daund. Had the TC asked me details of Daund to
check my story, I am sure I would know very much more than he would.
Anyway
Dadar in Mumbai Division and Daund on the Solapur division are part of
the vast
CR family, and hence I got off the hook with a warning.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Ticketless travel (was India catches 10 million rail ticket c heats)

Date: 09 Jul 1998 13:48:06 -0500


You could lay some bizarre claim to being the last Anglo-Indian left
working
in your division or something. ;)

Shanku

P.S. For those who don't know the term, Anglo-Indian refers to children
native to India but born of English ancestry.

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Mosse [mailto:pjcm@worldnet.email
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 1998 8:00 AM
To: Indian Railways List
Subject: Ticketless travel (was India catches 10 million rail ticket
cheats)


Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

....... I do not know if it was my personality or the motorman's handles
that I carried in my hand all the time, worked like a charm.

======

I like this technique.

But carrying motorman's handles around would probably not work for a
foreigner !!

Peter Mosse

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