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From: S Pai <>

Subject: Re: Engine drivers and walkie talkies

Date: 30 Jun 1998 08:08:20 -0500



> Also, in the US the drivers "call out" each signal's aspect as they
pass
> it, ie, "CSX Train 409, clear signal, track one, north Selma".

Something else that one can hear in the US, sometimes on the crew
members'
own walkie-talkies, is the "voice" of the wayside talking detectors (I
don't know the right name for the devices) which automatically scan the
axles of the train as it goes by, reporting on hot bearings, low-hanging
or
dragging objects, etc. Are similar devices in use anywhere in India?
Seems very useful, especially for long freight rakes in desolate areas,
where a warning is better than finding out about a problem through some
failure.

-Satish

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: rake

Date: 30 Jun 1998 08:35:59 -0500


C.L.Zeni wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >
> > Hi Anne,
> >
> > What do the Yankees call coupled coaches standing on a track (minus
the
> > loco) - is it not the 'rake' ? (frequently mispronounced as 'Rack').
>
> Term used here is "cut of cars", as in "Couple up to that cut of cars
on
> Track 10". Rake is not used here in the US at all...

Another term used specially in reference to passenger trains is
"consist", as
in "What was the consist of the Lake Shore Limited today?"

Jishnu.

From: ranand <>

Subject: Scanners in India

Date: 30 Jun 1998 08:51:37 -0500


I have a scanner which I use a lot to listen to both railway crew and
air traffic control here in the US. I took it to India a few years ago
and
I
was basically not able to pick up very much radio traffic except for
police.
I took it along with me when I traveled by train between Bangalore and
Madras and heard nothing.

I learned afterwards that scanners are essentially prohibited in India
(like
most interesting things :-) I get the feeling that the Indian govt is
paranoid
about communication technology in general. I wonder what their attitude
will be to the new Iridium system which allows one to completely bypass
the local PSTN system.

Interestingly enough, a few years ago, I saw a big a display of scanners
in the Dubai airport duty free shopping. It is sold right next to the
gold biscuits. Aimed at Indians nodoubt!

Incidentally, if they are moving towards the use of trunked radio in
Mumbai
for
train communications, you will most likely not be able to listen to them
even with
scanners as they tend to use a digital format to get the best bandwidth
utilization.
Scanners can only pickup analog transmissions.

R. Anand

Internet: anand@watson.email
External tel: (914) 784 7054
Notes: Rangachari Anand/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
Tie-line: 863 7054

From: sank <>

Subject: Driver Grades

Date: 30 Jun 1998 09:46:42 -0500


> ' C grade' driver is a goods driver, the lowest hierarchy of a regular
> train driver.
> ' B grade' driver is a motorman (one who works EMUs and locals)
> 'A grade' driver is a passenger driver working passenger trains
> 'A special' driver is the top of the line driver who works only mail
or
> express trains.

Hi Apurva/IRFCA Members:

Just curious: what is the promotion/years of service structure
for IR drivers in these grades ?

--
Jayant S

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Scanners in India

Date: 30 Jun 1998 09:55:34 -0500



Hi, Anand,

> I wonder what their attitude will be to the new Iridium system which
> allows one to completely bypass the local PSTN system.

Well, in fact the Indian govt. was one of the earliest ones that bought
a
share (albeit a small one) in the Iridium network. I don't know what
the
plans are for using it in India, though.

Speaking of communications -- at one point IR was interested in using
its
own phone lines, usually laid out along its tracks, to provide phone
service and even Internet (data) services to the public. I.e., they
wanted
to get into the ISP and long-distance business. It appeared to be an
ill-conceived scheme. Has anything happened on that front, or has
better
sense prevailed?

-Satish

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Driver Grades

Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:00:01 -0500




sank@telco.email wrote:

> > Hi Apurva/IRFCA Members:
>
> Just curious: what is the promotion/years of service structure
> for IR drivers in these grades ?
>

Will find out soon enough and let you know.

Apurva Bahadur

> --
> Jayant S

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Engine drivers and walkie talkies

Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:01:42 -0500




S Pai wrote:

> > Also, in the US the drivers "call out" each signal's aspect as they
pass
> > it, ie, "CSX Train 409, clear signal, track one, north Selma".
>
> Something else that one can hear in the US, sometimes on the crew
members'
> own walkie-talkies, is the "voice" of the wayside talking detectors (I
> don't know the right name for the devices) which automatically scan
the
> axles of the train as it goes by, reporting on hot bearings,
low-hanging or
> dragging objects, etc. Are similar devices in use anywhere in India?

We have a hot axle detector and axle counter.

Apurva

> Seems very useful, especially for long freight rakes in desolate
areas,
> where a warning is better than finding out about a problem through
some
> failure.
>
> -Satish

From: Vijay.Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Subscription to IR magazine

Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:01:52 -0500


I am planning to re-subscribe to the Indian Railways magazine
(hopefully, they'll mail me the issues regularly). Who is the new
Business Manager? Also, what is the current rate for overseas
subscription?

Thanks,
Vijay

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Slip Coaches (was Through and sectional carriages)

Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:19:14 -0500


> Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> The romantic idea of letting a few coaches off as the trains passes
through
> the station is history. I asked my father (who is also a keen train
buff
with
> a good sense of history) and he has seen B&W films of this ritual
being
done
> in Britain but has never seen or heard this being done in India. The
process
> is just too elitist for the IR.

===========

The first slip coach operation in UK occurred as long ago as 1858 and by
the time the First World War started, slipping coaches had become common
practice on many of the UK railway companies (75 a day on the Great
Western
Railway alone in 1914). However, it was a costly and operationally
inconvenient practice and from then on numbers declined. The last slip
took place on September 10, 1960 at Bicester on the Western Region of
British Railways.

There is an excellent book entitled "A History of Slipping and Slip
Carriages" by CEJ Fryer and published by The Oakwood Press in England
last
year at stg 6.95. Anyone interested in more info can e-mail me off
list.

Peter Mosse




From: Vijay.Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Time tables again

Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:41:48 -0500


> Dear Folks,

>No doubt the IR time tables are the wealthiest source of literatures I
>have ever come across. I wonder how many people have ever attempted to
>read the complete book ?( I do it a few times every year). How many
>people can actually "comprehend" a time table,let alone read it ? Very
>few indeed.

I couldn't agree with you more. I have spent many a late hour,
studying
time-tables in depth and relishing all the valuable information they
provide (both in and out of the loo :-) ). I am looking forward to the
new TTs to check out the new trains, in particular, Kurla-Varanasi Exp.,
and Kurla-Howrah/Nagpur AC Exps. Hopefully, the CR TT would have info.
about the Konkan trains as well. During my last 25 years of frenzied
time-table
activity, I have witnessed the steady increase in the price from
25 paise per copy to Rs. 10(???) per copy, although the paper
quality has gone down.


>Another thing I really relish reading is the Working Time Table of IR.
>It's section wise and includes information to the details of each
>signal. It tells you at what time the train paasses each station. The
>times printed in this book can be different than those in ordinary time
>tables e.g. the departure time mentioned in an ordinary TT is printed
as

Same here. I use working time-tables to also obtain info. about the
booked / max. permissible speeds of various trains in different
sections,
and the engineering and traffic recovery times. This helps me
in my fantasy train creations and makes sure that my schedules are
realiztic. Some other stuff to look for are the various techincal
halts for overtakes, preceding crossings, change of loco., etc. As a
example, I discovered that the Dn. Calcutta Rajdhani Exp. (via Gaya) has
halts
at Gujhandi/Gurpa for attachment/detachment of banker loco., whereas
the Bhubaneswar Raj. has none. This made sense since the former has a
load of 19 coaches whereas the latter has 12. I am not sure whether
these halts prevail after the deployment of WAP5/6 locos. I currently
have working time-tables of Northern, Central, Western and Eastern
rlys., thanks to my uncle who is the GM of Eastern Rly. That takes
care of all the high-speed routes. Anybody have working TTs of other
zones?


Regards,
Vijay

From: sank <>

Subject: Re: Time Tables on Internet - READ THIS!! VOLUNTEERS?

Date: 30 Jun 1998 15:16:28 -0500


> If we have software of this sort, I think we have to really appeal to
IR to
> try and get it online....
It would be great if they did this, and far more useful than
their voiced (dubious) intention of becoming a general ISP.
How can we get their attention ?
--
Jayant S : ID Studio
Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri TEL: 91 (212) 774261 ex 2534
PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA FAX: 91 (212) 773191

From: sank <>

Subject: Re: Time Tables on Internet - READ THIS!! VOLUNTEERS?

Date: 30 Jun 1998 15:16:28 -0500


> If we have software of this sort, I think we have to really appeal to
IR to
> try and get it online....
It would be great if they did this, and far more useful than
their voiced (dubious) intention of becoming a general ISP.
How can we get their attention ?
--
Jayant S : ID Studio
Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri TEL: 91 (212) 774261 ex 2534
PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA FAX: 91 (212) 773191

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Time Tables on Internet - READ THIS!! VOLUNTEERS?

Date: 30 Jun 1998 15:28:22 -0500


My 2 cents worth:

The question with any database-based online timetable (as opposed to an
OCR
scanned one) is how we keep the schedules updated.

If we have software of this sort, I think we have to really appeal to IR
to
try and get it online, so they handle the content. Perhaps we can stress
to
them that they have a chance to create a state-of-the-art service. Heck,
Amtrak's site has similar software, but it's not as fully featured, and
it's
very slow and buggy.

Shanku

-----Original Message-----
From: fca@accountant.email [mailto:fca@accountant.email
Sent: Monday, June 29, 1998 3:20 PM
To: irfca@cs.email
Subject: Re: Time Tables on Internet - READ THIS!! VOLUNTEERS?


TIMETABLES ON THE INTERNET

Please do not duplicate work....

I am already >90% completed on the first stage (of two, the second being
train scheduling) of this project.

I already "have" >1,800 stations (all important ones for routing and
scheduling; also tourist and commercial interest ones) and 200 other
"points of interest" (scenic/geographic/historical/contemporary etc.)
along
the lines.... (rivers with long bridges, say). In about one week I will
have completed the set. the data includes a position vector for each
point. The stations include even minor ones which themselves are the
closest to some point of interest,

My sources include a collection of TAAGs, Bradshaws, Murray's Guides,
guide
books (Lonely Planet included), maps, my own travelling notes (over
200,000
km travelled on IR to date). All work to date has been done by myself.

At the data collection stage many many errors in TAAG and also quite a
few
errors in the Bradshaws have been found... I am sure you are not
surprised
;-(

I have already written software that swiftly works out "optimal" routes
(optimal taking several meanings: distance-, time- or even interest- !).
The software runs on a PC. It is fun it working out the shortest track
distance between say Likhapani and KanniyaKumari.... (takes about 1 sec
on
a slow Pentium to find a "good" route and maybe 10-15 secs to find the
"best"). Also it can be made to generate "crazy" routes (how about JAT
to
CST via *exactly* 375 stations?!?

I need some help with checking accuracy of input data and "filling gaps"
(typically, distances between "adjacent" stations; some I have had to
measure manually from the Railway Map of India, or deduce in ways that I
cannot verify externally) and updating for 1997-98 new tracks. *****Any
volunteers, please?***** If you are prepared to put in say 10-20 hrs
over
a few weeks, please do email me directly as well as the irfca.

Kind Regards

Freddy Vachha


*=========================================================*
| 1. Thirteen thirteens are one hundred and seventy nine. |
| 2. Thirteen thirteens is one hundred and seventy nine. |
| 3. None of the above two statements are correct. |
| |
| Q: Are any of the above three statements correct? |
| A: No. Maths is bad on 1 & 2, and "None" is singular. |
*=========================================================*

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>

Subject: Re: Engine drivers and walkie talkies

Date: 30 Jun 1998 18:32:17 -0500


I have reading the term rakes lately. Can someone take the time to
educate
me the ignorant. I have tried to put the term in perspective by reading
and thought I had it figured it out until I read this email that said he
noticed some speakers on rakes. Is this a type of RR car? Did I miss
the
boat on this one. ?

Don in WV

----------
> From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <sncf@godrejnet.email
> To: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <shrinivas@rocketmail.email
> Cc: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email Sachin P Keshavan
<sachin_pk@hotmail.email irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Engine drivers and walkie talkies
> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 3:39 AM
>
> Hello Gang,
>
>
> > Besides WR is also planning Trunk Mobile Radio communication for all
> > suburban trains in Mumbai with which it will be possible to
> > communicate with all motormen & guards on-board from centralized
> > section controllers.
>
> I have noticed speakers in some of the rakes on W.Rly. Often one can
hear
> talks going on in the cabin - the driver or the guard blissfully
unaware
> that the switch is on and the commuters listening.
>
> Regards
> Viraf

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>

Subject: Re: Engine drivers and walkie talkies

Date: 30 Jun 1998 18:42:08 -0500


In the US these detectors are called hot box defect detector.

----------
> From: S Pai <spai@aya.email
> To: Indian Railways List <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Engine drivers and walkie talkies
> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 11:08 AM
>
>
> > Also, in the US the drivers "call out" each signal's aspect as they
pass
> > it, ie, "CSX Train 409, clear signal, track one, north Selma".
>
> Something else that one can hear in the US, sometimes on the crew
members'
> own walkie-talkies, is the "voice" of the wayside talking detectors (I
> don't know the right name for the devices) which automatically scan
the
> axles of the train as it goes by, reporting on hot bearings,
low-hanging
or
> dragging objects, etc. Are similar devices in use anywhere in India?
> Seems very useful, especially for long freight rakes in desolate
areas,
> where a warning is better than finding out about a problem through
some
> failure.
>
> -Satish

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <>

Subject: Re: rake

Date: 30 Jun 1998 18:53:56 -0500


Thanks to CL Zeni for the indirect answer as to what a rake is. I see I
was way off the mark. Don in WV

----------
> From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@fpk.email
> To: clzeni@mindspring.email
> Cc: irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: rake
> Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 11:35 AM
>
> C.L.Zeni wrote:
>
> > Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Anne,
> > >
> > > What do the Yankees call coupled coaches standing on a track
(minus
the
> > > loco) - is it not the 'rake' ? (frequently mispronounced as
'Rack').
> >
> > Term used here is "cut of cars", as in "Couple up to that cut of
cars
on
> > Track 10". Rake is not used here in the US at all...
>
> Another term used specially in reference to passenger trains is
"consist", as
> in "What was the consist of the Lake Shore Limited today?"
>
> Jishnu.
>

From: Anne O. <>

Subject: IRFCA member meet

Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:05:17 -0500


Are there enough IRFCA members in the SF Bay area for us to meet?

From: Anne O. <>

Subject: Re: rake

Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:50:28 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Hi Anne,
>
> What do the Yankees call coupled coaches standing on a track (minus
the
> loco) - is it not the 'rake' ? (frequently mispronounced as 'Rack').

No, sometimes that's called a train, but it's being loose with the
language. Technically a train is a locomotive, with or without cars,
displaying markers.
Any set of cars coupled togather is a "cut", but we would say:

"He left his train on the siding and ran down to the mill with the cut."

translation: the driver left the majority of the cars in the train
sitting on the siding (spur), and took the engine and the cars to be
delivered to the mill.

Strangely, there's no special term for a 'rake'.

The complete set of coaches that make up a passenger train is a

From: fca <>

Subject: Computer Simulation of Indian Railways

Date: 01 Jul 1998 05:20:50 -0500


Dear folk

Further to my earlier post, I'd like to clarify that the desired end
result
of my project is not *just* an electronic timetable but a visual
simulation
of all major IR trains (on a digital map), available to run in real time
or
at any speed-up factor. The problem of late-running trains will be
ignored, naturally - or perhaps programmed in on a random basis!

Seriously though, volunteers to help with checking accuracy of input
data
would be useful. No programming skills needed, just access to bradshaws
etc.

Kind regards

fca

PS: Does anyone know if Udhampur-Srinagar-Baramula is "serious"?

*=========================================================*
| 1. Thirteen thirteens are one hundred and seventy nine. |
| 2. Thirteen thirteens is one hundred and seventy nine. |
| 3. None of the above two statements are correct. |
| |
| Q: Are any of the above three statements correct? |
| A: No. Maths is bad in 1 & 2, and "None" is singular. |
*=========================================================*

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: Time Tables on Internet - READ THIS!! VOLUNTEERS?

Date: 01 Jul 1998 09:36:19 -0500


Freddy,

I can help you in the month of July (only July). Please send
your requirements to me at prakash@us.email as well as
prakash@jps.email (my home e-mail) I log on both the systems on
and off.

Prakash

Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
DB2 Technical Consultant, Vendor Partnership Program



fca@accountant.email on 06/30/98 05:35:30 PM
Please respond to fca@accountant.email
To: irfca@cs.email
cc:
Subject: Re: Time Tables on Internet - READ THIS!! VOLUNTEERS?


TIMETABLES ON THE INTERNET

Please do not duplicate work....

I am already >90% completed on the first stage (of two, the second being
train scheduling) of this project.

I already "have" >1,800 stations (all important ones for routing and
scheduling; also tourist and commercial interest ones) and 200 other
"points of interest" (scenic/geographic/historical/contemporary etc.)
along
the lines.... (rivers with long bridges, say). In about one week I will
have completed the set. the data includes a position vector for each
point. The stations include even minor ones which themselves are the
closest to some point of interest,

My sources include a collection of TAAGs, Bradshaws, Murray's Guides,
guide
books (Lonely Planet included), maps, my own travelling notes (over
200,000
km travelled on IR to date). All work to date has been done by myself.

At the data collection stage many many errors in TAAG and also quite a
few
errors in the Bradshaws have been found... I am sure you are not
surprised ;-(

I have already written software that swiftly works out "optimal" routes
(optimal taking several meanings: distance-, time- or even interest- !).
The software runs on a PC. It is fun it working out the shortest track
distance between say Likhapani and KanniyaKumari.... (takes about 1 sec
on
a slow Pentium to find a "good" route and maybe 10-15 secs to find the
"best"). Also it can be made to generate "crazy" routes (how about JAT
to
CST via *exactly* 375 stations?!?

I need some help with checking accuracy of input data and "filling gaps"
(typically, distances between "adjacent" stations; some I have had to
measure manually from the Railway Map of India, or deduce in ways that I
cannot verify externally) and updating for 1997-98 new tracks. *****Any
volunteers, please?***** If you are prepared to put in say 10-20 hrs
over
a few weeks, please do email me directly as well as the irfca.

Kind Regards

Freddy Vachha


*=========================================================*
| 1. Thirteen thirteens are one hundred and seventy nine. |
| 2. Thirteen thirteens is one hundred and seventy nine. |
| 3. None of the above two statements are correct. |
| |
| Q: Are any of the above three statements correct? |
| A: No. Maths is bad on 1 & 2, and "None" is singular. |
*=========================================================*

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