IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 2841 - 2860

Previous 20 Messages          Archive Index          Next 20 Messages

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: Query

Date: 15 Jun 1998 18:20:00 -0500


> Hasler Speedometer - recording speedometer. The speed indication in he
> Hasler is incremented in small steps rather than continously. The
> mechanism is operated by clockwork, which must be wound daily.
Is this similiar to the 'tachograph' used on European trucks ?
> 'fireman's emergency valve - valve which directly opens the brake pipe
> to atmosphere, thereby destroying vacuum and stopping the train in event
> of the driver being incapacitated.
I have heard this called "emergency brake".

Also: 'power' is a generally used term for 'locomotive'.
'Bogie' is used for any passenger car/coach. 'Station'
means 'depot'.

Any more, folks ? I need some memory jolts.......

--
Jayant S : ID Studio
Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri TEL: 91 (212) 774261 ex 2534
PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA FAX: 91 (212) 773191

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Differences in Railway Terminology between America and Britain

Date: 15 Jun 1998 19:05:00 -0500


<A HREF="http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~mt5h-nitu/esaki/rrterms.htm">http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~mt5h-nitu/esaki/rrterms.htm</A>
This one is interesting regarding jargonisms.

Since IR borrowed much from UK railroad terms,
there may still be a vestigial (and somewhat
archaic) correspondence between the two. What
would be interesting is to also add local
dialect terms from various regions of India.
For example 'Dibba' is a passenger car (coach),
'Maal Gaadi' is a freight (goods) train,
'Patri' is track, 'Karshan' is electric
traction facility........may help railfans
from abroad who visit India and find the
local terms difficult. How about it ?

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: Query

Date: 15 Jun 1998 20:27:00 -0500


> What's up with the couplers? I noticed that the container trains have
> Janney (US style) couplers, but lots of cars have the hook and buffer
> system.
I think only IR passenger stock is built with buffer/link couplers.
Automatic couplers are fitted on all new freight stock: on air-braked
freight stock (usually green), buffers are actually absent. Locomotives
come with automatic couplers (and an adapted link for passenger stock).
The only steam class with automatic couplers were the WGx subclass
used for heavy freights on SER.
> 3. What are the voltages for AC, DC?
1500VDC, and 25000VAC. Calcutta had 3000VDC until the '60s.

--
Jayant S : ID Studio
Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri TEL: 91 (212) 774261 ex 2534
PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA FAX: 91 (212) 773191

From: Anne O. <anniepoo@netmagic.email

Subject: Re: Query

Date: 14 Jun 1998 19:32:00 -0500


> Is this similiar to the 'tachograph' used on European trucks ?
don't know, this is Apurva's definition, not mine.


Goods train
US: freight train
Goods van
US: box car

Sleepers (Ties in the US)

I'm sure the names for crew members are different,
but I don't know the names in India.



More FAQ sections:

1. The various braking systems
2. The various coupler systems
What's up with the couplers? I noticed that the container trains have
Janney (US style) couplers, but lots of cars have the hook and buffer
system.
3. What are the voltages for AC, DC?

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Darjeeling Himalayan Railway

Date: 15 Jun 1998 23:23:00 -0500


<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3707/r007.html">http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3707/r007.html</A>

Some DHR history here.

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Recording speedometer

Date: 16 Jun 1998 07:42:00 -0500


Hi gang !

The Hasler speedo has a long strip of paper, while a Yenkay mechanical
speedo has a circular chart inside it. There is also a 'Meda' speedo
with a digital clock that is rumored to perform the function of the
'transition cards' of the WDM2 as well. Once the loco is moving a
mechanism begins to tick inside the Hasler, it is not the clockwork -
something else. One of the sound that are heard as the loco comes to a
standstill after a noisy ride is the loud ticking from the Hasler. The
ticking stops after a few seconds.
Okay , here it is the circular chart from a Yenkay mechanical speedo.
The loco is Guntakal shed's WDM2 17689, the record is of the 6010 Up
Chennai Mumbai Mail from GTL (Guntakal) to RC (Raichur), on the 13th of
June (its HOT and FRESH !). There is a signature of the 'Chief Crew
Controller' (as the loco foreman is known as lately) of GTL on the back
with his seal. Also noted is the name of the driver and the KMs traveled
on this route (122 Kms). Obviously the loco has traveled a lot more than
that, the record being almost for 20 hours. Note the cute graphics in
the lower part of the center with the drawing of the house (the home
shed ?) and an arrow away and one towards, meaning possibly Down
direction (away from home) and Up direction (towards home). Thus 6010 is
an Up train (true) for this section.
It seems that the clock of this speedo is not working or set wrong (or
the trains was very late :) - or is it early ? ) The trace starts at
around 0230 hours, while the 6010 arrives at GTL at 0815.
Note that in the section MAS (Madras/ Chennai) to GTL the train known
as 6010 Down as it is on the down tracks. It is very puzzling to see
'reversed' numbers at Chennai Central station. The whole world refers
to 6009 as 9 Down, while the Chennai walas refer to her as 9 Up ! All
the argument about trains moving away from a port is Down does not hold
true as all trains at Howrah (HWH) are referred by the same number all
through the journey, 8002 is Up all the way to Mumbai and Calcutta is a
sort of port too.
The analysis of the chart is simple, the red trace is the speed vs time
graph. The loco seem to have crossed 110 Km/h at around 0435 hrs (not
easily possible).
One bizzare convention I saw on the Pune station's electronic rolling
display is '6530 Up is coming on platform no 0 !' Pune has seven
platforms and zero refers to 'platform not yet decided'.
More information on the WDM2 and detailed photos coming up ! I will also
upload a section (or the whole) Hasler paper strip, once I figure out
how to scan it !


Apurva Bahadur

From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@cyberspace.email

Subject: Re: Query

Date: 15 Jun 1998 13:17:00 -0500


Junta.

I am keeping a physical list ( printout) of the sections and questions we
have thus far. Keep them coming. Once we have enough I will send my
collection to Anne o and these can be used along with the other lists to
get the FAQ page going.

Siddhartha.

From: T.H.Sanyal. <THS1@PSUVM.EMAIL

Subject: Re: Recording speedometer

Date: 15 Jun 1998 15:35:00 -0500


>'reversed' numbers at Chennai Central station. The whole world refers
>to 6009 as 9 Down, while the Chennai walas refer to her as 9 Up ! All

Is Chennai not part of the "whole world"?

ths.

From: T.H.Sanyal. <THS1@PSUVM.EMAIL

Subject: Re: Big Email

Date: 15 Jun 1998 15:40:00 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:

>With reference to Heinrich Hubbert's latest email I feel we should
>refrain from sending large emails with pictures. A lot of members may
>have slower modems or have text only email connections.

But you did it again today with the picture of Hasler recorder.
Please, post pictures on a website. Please, do not include those
with email. My disk space became full trying to deal with that.

Thank you.
ths.

From: Donald L. Mills, Jr <dmills@MARSHALL.email

Subject: Re: Query

Date: 15 Jun 1998 16:32:00 -0500


Anne there are several types of freights in the US. 1. A Goods train
could be a mixed train meaning its carring various types of freight. 2.
Grain train is dedicated to grain only. 3. Chemical train is dedicated
to Chemicals. 4. Fruit express dedicated to fruit. 4. Coal
drag-loaded coal train. 4.Empties are unloaded coal or other cars. 5.
Pig train- A train dedicated to hauling the trailers of commercial trucks.
6. Auto freight racks- freight trains with covered trailers used for
hauling new autos. 7. Sulphur trains carry sulphur. 8. Coke Express-
used for carring coke to smelters. 9. Work trains labled-Maintenance of
Way trains. used for repairing railroad facilities. 10. Mail express
To name a few.

Sleepers are bedroom facilities on passenger trains.

Hope this helps the IR group a little. Don in WV
----------
> From: Anne O. <anniepoo@netmagic.email
> To: sank@telco.email
> Cc: IR List <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Query
> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 1:32 AM
>
> > Is this similiar to the 'tachograph' used on European trucks ?
> don't know, this is Apurva's definition, not mine.
>
>
> Goods train
> US: freight train
> Goods van
> US: box car
>
> Sleepers (Ties in the US)
>
> I'm sure the names for crew members are different,
> but I don't know the names in India.
>
>
>
> More FAQ sections:
>
> 1. The various braking systems
> 2. The various coupler systems
> What's up with the couplers? I noticed that the container trains have
> Janney (US style) couplers, but lots of cars have the hook and buffer
> system.
> 3. What are the voltages for AC, DC?

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: Recording speedometer

Date: 16 Jun 1998 17:48:00 -0500


Can you explain why a train starting from Howrah (HWH) on the east coast is
Up while a train starting from Chennai (MAS ?), also on the east coast is
Down ? Maybe there are different rules for MAS ?

Apurva Bahadur

T.H.Sanyal. wrote:

> >'reversed' numbers at Chennai Central station. The whole world refers
> >to 6009 as 9 Down, while the Chennai walas refer to her as 9 Up ! All
>
> Is Chennai not part of the "whole world"?
>
> ths.

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: Big Email

Date: 16 Jun 1998 18:16:00 -0500


Okay, My apologies to TH and everyone else for crowding your mail. I
will put this pic separately on a website. I did not realize that the
mail was too big. I wrote it on the spur of the moment.

Apurva Bahadur

T.H.Sanyal. wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> >With reference to Heinrich Hubbert's latest email I feel we should
> >refrain from sending large emails with pictures. A lot of members may
> >have slower modems or have text only email connections.
>
> But you did it again today with the picture of Hasler recorder.
> Please, post pictures on a website. Please, do not include those
> with email. My disk space became full trying to deal with that.
>
> Thank you.
> ths.

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: Couplings and that

Date: 16 Jun 1998 18:24:00 -0500


> Some European and UK narrow-gauge railways actually went to a centre
> buffer, with a link coupler slung either above or below it.
I was looking at some pictures of Rhaetian Railway stock: looks like
a centre buffer with two links on either side, passing through
notches in the buffer. Is this yet another type ?
> the JONES coupler...
What type are the NZ railway couplers ? Looks like a circular
central buffer with a notch on top.
> Darjeeling uses a unique "rudder" coupling....
Something similiar on the Matheran Railway, I think.

That was an amazing amount of information: thanks a lot !

--
Jayant S : ID Studio
Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri TEL: 91 (212) 774261 ex 2534
PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA FAX: 91 (212) 773191

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Steam !

Date: 16 Jun 1998 18:33:00 -0500


<A HREF="http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/asia.html">http://www.buriton.demon.co.uk/asia.html</A>

Nice IR steam photos here.

Jayant S : Pune

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E. Heath <kjw_meh@powerup.email

Subject: Couplings and that

Date: 15 Jun 1998 20:40:00 -0500


Hi Sank and All,
Couplings. Indian coupling practice is based on the Britsh system.
(European couplings are very similar). Originally, English trains were
coupled by chains -- one in the centre, and two "safety chains" at either
side in case the middle one broke. SAfety chains could often be seen on
some stock -- such as London
Transport EMUs -- until quite recent times, though they have been out of
use for many years. Naturally, as the chains could not sustain buffing
forces, there also had to be buffers. These were often extensions of the
solebars (the side bearers of freight wagons) and were called "dumb"
buffers.
Dumb-buffered wagons were finally outlawed in mainline traffic (the
equivalent of "interchange" in the USA) by the Railway Clearing House
(RCH) in 1903. Passenger coaches in the early days often had buffers made
of leather and stuffed with horsehair. After about 1850, spring buffers
both for passenger and for mainline freight stock became increasingly more
common. Early versions used a leaf spring mounted under the vehicle, but
modern "self-contained" coil spring buffers were widely used by the turn of
the century. Meanwhile, the early chain couplings, most of which had five
links, had been superseded on wagon stock by THREE-LINK couplings. Until
very recent times, these were the standard type of wagon/van coupling for
"unfitted" stock -- i.e., stock without vacuum brake -- intended for
operation in freight trains at maximum speed below 25mph (40kph).
Three-link couplings are loose, and as a result, trains can be "picked up"
wagon by wagon as the train starts, making it possible to use underpowered
locos (in case you ever wondered ...) But, of course, loose couplings
meant a whole lot of jerking and banging, fore and aft. So, for PASSENGER
stock, someone invented the SCREW coupling; the end link of this is dropped
over the hook on the adjacent vehicles, then the coupling is screwed up
until the buffers are touching and just in compression. This gives a nice
smooth ride, suppressing fore-and aft surges. It is the screw coupling
which is in common use in India on passenger stock; it is also used in
Europe, and all fitted -- i.e., vacuum-braked, meant for express running --
freight stock in Britain used it too. Three-link couplings disappeared very
early in India beacuse (a) Indian freight stock was all fitted with AVB
after the mid-1920s (and the intention had been to do it far earlier) (b)
there were many mixed trains, and it was desirable to operate them at
passengere trains speeds, low though those were, and (c) the military were
very concerned about maximising availability of rolling stock for strategic
purposes. They wanted and got screw couplings, and were also able to demand
that 50% of freights stock be suitable for military use (which mostly meant
suitable for conveying horses) and ALL III class passenger stock have rifle
racks below the seats, a requirement which lasted until Independence. Most
modern railway systems all over the world nowadays use the the MCB or
knuckle coupler (Annie caled it a "Janney" a term I haven't heard in ages!)
not because it is the best but because it is there! This is centre
buffer-coupler, of course, doing two jobs at once. It also couples
automatically, which saved a lot of lives and limbs when it was first
introduced in the USA in the 1870s-1880s, as the predecessor link-and-pin
coupler was a real mutilator.
Many railways which had screw/link couplers and buffers converted to
MCB couplers and no buffers during the 1960s and 1960s -- in Australia,
for example. Also 4-wheel freight stock started to disappear at about the
same time, because it can't be run safely much faster than 45mph. Wherever
they tried to, they got a spate of derailments. In India the process also
began around the 1960s, with air brake conversion getting under way about
1970. The first air braked trains were the Rajdhani expresses. Modern bogie
freight vehicles followed. I think nearly all diseasels and electrics were
built with MCB couplers.
That's standard gauge/ broad gauge couplers. Some European and UK
narrow-gauge railways actually went to a centre buffer, with a link coupler
slung either above or below it. You can still see these in Germany and
Austria as well as on UK preserved lines. Other lines went for the
"Norwegian" coupler, which had a pointy hook that slotted into a yoke on
the other vehicle. That's the grandfather of the type still in use of ng
and mg in India. However, in India, an engineer called Jones who was with
one of thr Rajasthan lines invented .... the JONES coupler, which is a
"Norwegian" coupler with a bar behinf the yoke, which can the tensioned
with a screw at the side. The hook has a small notch to make sure it
engages properly, too. Jones couiplers are used on nearly all ng lines and
every mg line in India, and went to East Africa and Southeast Asia with
exported Indian technology (did you know that?) Some ng lines still use a
basic Norwegian, and the Darjeeling uses a unique "rudder" coupling to cope
with the severe curvature.
Hope that helps on couplers. Indian railways all went to Automatic
Vacuum Brake (AVB) after badly-run trials in 1889; in recent years, like
most other railways, they have been converting to air brakes.
Cheers from the old KJ
PS. visit my web page at <A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh</A>

> > What's up with the couplers? I noticed that the container trains have
> > Janney (US style) couplers, but lots of cars have the hook and buffer
> > system.
> I think only IR passenger stock is built with buffer/link couplers.
> Automatic couplers are fitted on all new freight stock: on air-braked
> freight stock (usually green), buffers are actually absent. Locomotives
> come with automatic couplers (and an adapted link for passenger stock).
> The only steam class with automatic couplers were the WGx subclass
> used for heavy freights on SER.

From: T.H.Sanyal. <THS1@PSUVM.EMAIL

Subject: Up and Down

Date: 16 Jun 1998 12:40:00 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>Can you explain why a train starting from Howrah (HWH) on the east coast is
>Up while a train starting from Chennai (MAS ?), also on the east coast is
>Down ? Maybe there are different rules for MAS ?

I really don't think that any rule about Up and Down works universally
across the entire IR (although I am willing to be enlightened on this
matter). We have to remember that the IR is an amalgamation of several
railway companies which might have set their own rules. As far as I know,
every train leaving Howrah is Up and every train entering Howrah is Down.
Before these 4 digit train numbers came into vogue, the Howrah-Bombay
Mail via Nagpur
used to be 2 Up all the way to BBVT. The Howrah-Madras Mail used to
be 3 Up leaving HWH. I don't know if it became 3 Down in SR territory.
The Howrah-Bombay Mail via ALD used to be 3 Up in ER and 8 Up in CR.
At the present time when trains are being run between any pair of
stations, the Up/Down designations are probably more confusing than
helpful.

ths.

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: Up and Down

Date: 17 Jun 1998 08:28:00 -0500


Hi TH,

The Up & Down is defined by the tracks the train is standing on. Maharashtra Exp
starting from Kolhapur is Up till Pune, then Down all the way to Gondia via
Daund, Manmad and Bhusawal. The Karnatak Express is Up from Bangalore to Daund
and there after Down till New Delhi.

Apurva Bahadur

T.H.Sanyal. wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >Can you explain why a train starting from Howrah (HWH) on the east coast is
> >Up while a train starting from Chennai (MAS ?), also on the east coast is
> >Down ? Maybe there are different rules for MAS ?
>
> I really don't think that any rule about Up and Down works universally
> across the entire IR (although I am willing to be enlightened on this
> matter). We have to remember that the IR is an amalgamation of several
> railway companies which might have set their own rules. As far as I know,
> every train leaving Howrah is Up and every train entering Howrah is Down.
> Before these 4 digit train numbers came into vogue, the Howrah-Bombay
> Mail via Nagpur
> used to be 2 Up all the way to BBVT. The Howrah-Madras Mail used to
> be 3 Up leaving HWH. I don't know if it became 3 Down in SR territory.
> The Howrah-Bombay Mail via ALD used to be 3 Up in ER and 8 Up in CR.
> At the present time when trains are being run between any pair of
> stations, the Up/Down designations are probably more confusing than
> helpful.
>
> ths.

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email

Subject: Up and Down

Date: 16 Jun 1998 13:29:00 -0500


Things are different on CR and WR in Mumbai. Every train
that departs is down and the one that arrives is up. This
creates fun at times because train climbing the hill to
reach Matheran is down and it becomes up while descending.

Prakash

Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
DB2 Technical Consultant, Vendor Partnership Program

From: T.H.Sanyal. <THS1@PSUVM.EMAIL

Subject: Re: Up and Down

Date: 16 Jun 1998 15:28:00 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:

>The Up & Down is defined by the tracks the train is standing on. Maharashtra
>Exp
>starting from Kolhapur is Up till Pune, then Down all the way to Gondia via
>Daund, Manmad and Bhusawal. The Karnatak Express is Up from Bangalore to Daund
>and there after Down till New Delhi.

That is fine. My contention is that there does not appear to be any
universally applicable rule that can be used to designate a particular
direction to be Up or Down. What seems to be the rule in Mumbai is not
the rule in Chennai.

ths.

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email

Subject: Calcutta Trams

Date: 16 Jun 1998 17:28:00 -0500


Folks,

Look at <A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~tlg/Calcutta.html">http://www.teleport.com/~tlg/Calcutta.html</A> . The site
contains a couple of pictures of Trams.

Prakash

The content of the individual messages displayed here is subject to copyright by the original authors and may not be reproduced outside the context of IRFCA without permission.
Note: This site is not officially affiliated with Indian Railways! The official web site of Indian Railways is: http://www.indianrailways.gov.in
Site contact: webmaster@irfca.org
Copyright © 2010, IRFCA.org. About IRFCA  Contact Us  Search this site  Site Map  Links   Acknowledgements  Legal Information & Disclaimers