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From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: [Fwd: Switches and Engine Indications in a WDM2

Date: 22 May 1998 04:13:00 -0500


Message forwarded for everyone in the gang to respond to !

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: Switches and Engine Indications in a WDM2

Date: 22 May 1998 07:49:00 -0500


Hello Brad,

I am writing to you from Pune (pronounced as Poonay), India (192 Km South
East of Mumbai (Bombay). We have a major diesel shed in Pune homing about
120 WDM2s and WDS6 locos. I can get any technical, operational or procedural
details of these locos as well as of the 1.5 KV DC electrics (WCM1, WCM2,
WCM5, and the WCG2), the AC/DC electrics (WCAM3), the WDS 4 Shunter and the
DC EMUs. The details I cannot get easily are the historic information and
finding a particular loco number or series.
I also cannot get details of the WDM1 (DL500) Alcos which are homed at
Gonda on the North Eastern railways, way too far from where I stay. I can
get some details of the YDM4 meter gauge Alcos which were at Miraj, but
unfortunately they have gone very far away when the meter gauge was
converted to Broad.

Let me know if there is anything specific you want and I will try to get
that.

To broadcast a mail to all the irfca members send it to <irfca@cs.email
For administrative matters such as subscription, old issues etc send mail to
Arurag Acharya at
<irfca-request@cs.email.

Thanks

Apurva Bahadur


>
>
> Dear Sir,
> I would be more than interested in more technical descriptions
> especially of Alco Locomotives in India if you have more of these.
> Alco could you please tell me how I post straight to the India group
> instead of just personal replies. I learnt when I joined but have since
> forgot.
> Best Wishes
> Brad Peadon
> Alcos International

From: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email

Subject: Diagrams of locos

Date: 21 May 1998 07:14:00 -0500


Hi,

I'm interested in building paper miniature replicas of several Indian locos
as well as rakes.

Would you know of any way I could get diagrams of some of these? I have a
number of pictures, but they don't give a very good indication of all the
measurements.

Thanks,
Shanku

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: Diagrams of locos

Date: 22 May 1998 19:30:00 -0500


> I'm interested in building paper miniature replicas of several Indian locos
> as well as rakes.
>
> Would you know of any way I could get diagrams of some of these? I have a
> number of pictures, but they don't give a very good indication of all the
> measurements.

I too would be interested: I have been trying to design my own
freelance steam locos for card modelling, but I would like to
base them on the Indian loading guage and coupler specs. I intend
to create them in Gauge I (assuming the 45mm track gauge being
equal to 5'6", that is).

Shanku: I have an orthographic side view rendering of a YP in some book,
which I could photocopy and s-mail to you: might help you some.

--
Jayant S : IDStudio : TTIL : ERC : TELCO
Pimpri : Pune : 411 018 : INDIA
tel - 91(212)774261 exn 2534
--

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: Excursions

Date: 22 May 1998 19:33:00 -0500


> What about looking into purchasing
> one from China for such a purpose?
Incompatible track gauge......

Good idea though : I hope IR administration wakes up to the
possibility of steam excursions before the locos are all
scrapped.
--
Jayant S : IDStudio : TTIL : ERC : TELCO
Pimpri : Pune : 411 018 : INDIA
tel - 91(212)774261 exn 2534
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Link of Pune - Kolhapur drivers

Date: 22 May 1998 20:47:00 -0500


This is the link (duty chart) of the Pune based Hubli(UBL) Division
Mail/Express (A special) drivers home at Pune and work trains from Pune
(PA) to Kolhapur (KOP) . Pune to Kolhapur is 327 Km of single line WDM2
hauled
track.

KOP is Kolhapur
PA is Pune
CSTM is Mumbai VT (Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus Mumbai)
G is Gondia near Nagpur

(The station code for Gondia is only 'G' as per
two separate time tables - any confiramtions ? This makes it the
smallest station code on the IR ? which is the longest station code ?
-lots with 4 letters CAPE / NDLS/ CSTM etc Any station codes with 5
letters ?)

7303-7304 is CSTM - KOP - CSTM Sahyadri Exp
7303-7308 is CSTM - KOP - CSTM Koyna Exp
1011-1012 is CSTM - KOP - CSTM Mahalaxmi Exp
7383 - 7384 is KOP - G - KOP Maharashtra Exp.

Trip 1

Day From To Train Name Dep Arr
1 PA KOP 7303Dn Sahyadri Exp PA: 2245 KOP:0605on day2
2 KOP PA 7304Up Sahyadri Exp KOP: 2230 PA:0730 on day3

Trip 2

Day
4 PA KOP 7307Dn Koyna Exp PA: 1350 KOP:2135 same day
5 KOP PA 7383Up Maharashtra KOP: 1415 PA:2200 same day
Exp

Trip 3
7 PA KOP 1011Dn Mahalaxmi Exp PA: 0120 KOP:0840 same day
7 KOP PA 1012Up Mahalaxmi Exp KOP: 1915 PA:0220 on day 8

Trip 4
9 PA KOP 7384Dn Maharashtra Exp PA: 0620 KOP:1405 same day
10 KOP PA 7308Up Koyna Exp KOP:0750 PA: 1600same day

Trip 5 : back to Trip 1 on the day 11

Note : There are no regular holidays, no weekly off, only rest at
outstation (KOP running room) or at home station. The driver is normally
on duty, one and a half hours before the arrival of the train (to check
the loco and accept charge) and for atleast one hour after the bringing
a train in to hand over the loco. Many of the drivers live in Ghorpadi
(GPR) which is near the Pune Diesel loco shed. For some trains the WDM2
loco is 'shed charge' which means the loco is accepted from the GPR
shed and driven by the drivers to the Pune platform some 3 Km distant.
Like wise for returning the loco after completing a trip.
Some trains have 'platform charge' when the drivers walk or use public
transport (or if they are lucky, hitch a ride on a passing loco/train)
to accept the train on the platform itself.
A few years ago the train for 'platform charge' used to be the 1011/1012
Mahalaxmi Exp where the GPR based drivers used to walk 3 KM at 0100
hrs/0230 hrs from/to the dark and distant loco shed to sign on/off.
Now mercifully, it is one of the day trains.

One intresting point: The 7383 from Kolhapur is an 'Up' train from
Kolhapur to Pune, thereafter it is referred to as 7383 'Down' all the
way to Gondia (Route - Kolhapur - Pune [reverse direction] - Daund
[again reverse directrion] - Manmad [change to AC loco usually from
Bhusawal] - Bhusawal - Wardha - Nagpur - Gondia - Whew !) . This means
that the Up and Down is defined by the tracks on which the train
travels. The same is true of the 2779/2780 H. Nizamuddin (NZM) - Castle
Rock (CLR) Goa Express which juggles her Up and Down status.

Links of the mail drivers from Mumbai Division and the Solapur Division
coming up soon !

I look forward for your feedback and continued dialogue !

Apurva Bahadur

From: Philippe Quiot (TOG Devt. SA) <tog-sa@he.email

Subject: Re: Diagrams of locos

Date: 22 May 1998 16:44:00 -0500


Hello,

I have the following diagrams:

meter gauge
-----------
YP (already on the NET)
YG
YL

narrow gauge
------------
064T Bagnall
262T Delta
Class W 062T
ZE

2 ft gauge
----------
Class NH 282

All of them copies of original indian railway
tech. documents, all rather bad quality
but including some dimensions

All of these on A4 to A3 size, i.e.
"not really to any useful scale..."

Add'ly I have large scale drawings of
YP and YG parts like wheels and other
(need to check, intended to be used to
check compatibility with running in Europe)

SLM has documents about the meter gauge rack engines
incl. large scale documents and I suppose that I can get
copies of them.

It is easy to copy _large_ scale documents,
I do this quite often for locomotive boiler drawings:
size up to A0 wide per more than 1 meter long...

I can do this at cost for those who are interested,
but please no hurry...

Add'ly: I suggest that some of you "on the spot"
make contacts with the workshops
(those who were doing repair on the Loks)
and try to gather as much
documentation and drawings as they can...

Even very large scale like 1:20 1:10 is easy to copy !

Obviously it is still possible, but / for this /
we really need to hurry...


--

===================================================================
TOG Devt. S.A. "IXpert" Philippe QUIOT
CH - 1092 Belmont tog-sa@he.email
internet/intranet consulting ( )
___ ____________ ( _ )
_________|___||____________| _____ | |
| [ ] |[ ] |___||___|_____|____|_|__|-|
______|__________[__] |[_____] |---------//-\\----|-----|
[ ] | |________//___\\ | )
[ Px48 ] | | | (________)\\__|_____|
[_____________________]==|_________|-|----/-\----/ -\--___\\|-
|=| ====== ====== |_________|_| - / - \ /-----(___)\\=|=|
| (O)(O) (O)(O) (O)-(O) /(O)-(O)/ |
===================================================================
"Times of Glory" trade/consulting in railway/travel/tourism areas
tog@bahnhofplatz.email
<A HREF="http://www.bahnhofplatz.com/">http://www.bahnhofplatz.com/</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Station Codes

Date: 23 May 1998 05:56:00 -0500


Hola Amigos !

Further to an older debate about station codes:

Subjects discussed below have been mentioned in the past, maybe there is
an answer now ?

Why is Cudappah between Gooty and Renigunta know as HX ? Does Cudappah
have a older name like Vijaywada - Bezwada - BZA , which justifies its
unusual station code ?
The smallest station code must be G for Gondia, any others with a single
letter code ?
Which are the station codes with 5 letters ?

WDM2 locos of different sheds seen at Pune :

PA - Pune
KYN - Kalyan
KZJ - Kazipet
ED - Erode
KJM - Krishnarajpuram
GY - Gooty
ET - Itarsi
GTL - Guntakal (specially with Tirupati - Mumbai weekly exp)
JHS - Jhansi (very unusual)
RTM - Ratlam (not the stud Rajdhani power you are expecting, but beat
up Goods power)
LDH - Ludhiana (I have not seen this loco but a railway man told me so)

I have also seen TOTALLY unmarked locos from Golden Rock (GOC) at
Ponmalai (Trichirapalli) at Pune. There is only a very small metal plate
which says Golden Rock Workshop - Southern Railways. I am told that
these locos are totally overhauled locos which are sent for running in
on one or two trips before allotting them to a particular shed.

Now the Parel Loco works at Mumbai is to Central Railways what the GOC
works is to the SR, but we never see any unmarked locos from PRL works.
I have definite info that all the really heavy repair jobs (collision
damage etc) of all gauges (including smashed ZDM 4s from Kurduwadi) are
sent to Parel (on a BFR - open flat wagon) for total reconditioning.

Please comment !

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: Switches and Engine Indications in a WDM2

Date: 23 May 1998 07:19:00 -0500


Dear Brad,

The IRFCA is the melting pot of all Indian Railway enthusiast on the
web.
The Internet is the ONLY way Indian Railway enthusiasts can get
together.
In the IRFCA you will find many people who know and LOVE Alco
locomotives.
Unlike the rest of the world, our Alcos are not going to wane so soon.
They
are the staple Diesel power found in great numbers all over the country.
Although the WDM1 and WDM4 may go within the next five years or so.

I am taking the liberty of putting up you letters and my reply on the
IRFCA
notice board so others too may correspond with you. It will be great to
receive your newsletter about Australian Alcos.

The WDM2 stands for W (Broad Gauge) D (Diesel) M (Mixed - both passenger
and
goods duty) 2 (second loco of the evaluation).
The WDM 1 are the single cab Alco DL 500 based in Gonda in North India
The WDM 2 are the Alco RS 251 V16, do you need any specific details
about
the prime mover ?
The WDM 3 was a class of diesel hydraulic from Henschell / Kraus Maefii
- I
have no details
The WDM 4 are GM Diesel Electrics homed at Mughal Sarai.

Will be glad to see you on the IRFCA mailing list. Please contribute
your
thoughts and share your experiences with all of us - Join the gang !


Apurva Bahadur

GOODWIN ALCO wrote:

> Dear Apurva,
> Firstly let me thank you very much for your reply. It is
> great to meet someone who knows about Alcos in India. This has been a
> very hard area in which to find out anything until now and I am very
> indebted.
> All the items you mentioned are fantastic and I would be interested in
> any Alco related information from India. In return for your help I would
> be happy to send some items or photos of Aussie Alcos to you and a copy
> of my Alco Addict newsletter if you wish.
> The DL500s must be a fair way from the main places in India as I have
> had a few friends visit there but none have ever seen a DL500. I am
> interested to know also what the WDM stands for (Guess-With Diesel
> Motor).
> Anyway thanks once again and I would be interested in anything Alco.
> Please let me know what I can do in return.
>
> Best Wishes
> Brad Peadon
>
> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >
> > Hello Brad,
> >
> > I am writing to you from Pune (pronounced as Poonay), India (192 Km
> > South East of Mumbai (Bombay). We have a major diesel shed in Pune
> > homing about 120 WDM2s and WDS6 locos. I can get any technical,
> > operational or procedural details of these locos as well as of the 1.5
> > KV DC electrics (WCM1, WCM2, WCM5, and the WCG2), the AC/DC electrics
> > (WCAM3), the WDS 4 Shunter and the DC EMUs. The details I cannot get
> > easily are the historic information and finding a particular loco
> > number or series.
> > I also cannot get details of the WDM1 (DL500) Alcos which are homed
> > at Gonda on the North Eastern railways, way too far from where I stay.
> > I can get some details of the YDM4 meter gauge Alcos which were at
> > Miraj, but unfortunately they have gone very far away when the meter
> > gauge was converted to Broad.
> >
> > Let me know if there is anything specific you want and I will try to
> > get that.
> >
> > To broadcast a mail to all the irfca members send it to
> > <irfca@cs.email
> > For administrative matters such as subscription, old issues etc send
> > mail to Arurag Acharya at
> > <irfca-request@cs.email.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Apurva Bahadur
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Sir,
> > I would be more than interested in more technical
> > descriptions
> > especially of Alco Locomotives in India if you have more of
> > these.
> > Alco could you please tell me how I post straight to the
> > India group
> > instead of just personal replies. I learnt when I joined but
> > have since
> > forgot.
> > Best Wishes
> > Brad Peadon
> > Alcos International
> >
> >

From: FyffesFL <FyffesFL@aol.email

Subject: Rack railways

Date: 22 May 1998 12:56:00 -0500


Greetings

I am seeking information on the Ootacamund line, which I understand has or had
rack sections. I would like to find a history, a map, plus locomotive and
rolling stock
details.

Are or were there any other rack lines in the subcontinent ?

Richard Yudin

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <sncf@godrejnet.email

Subject: Re: Diagrams of locos

Date: 23 May 1998 17:12:00 -0500


Hello Shanku,

I have some drawings and can mail then to you. So send me your mailing
address.

Regards
Viraf
On Thu, 21 May 1998, Shanku Niyogi wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm interested in building paper miniature replicas of several Indian locos
> as well as rakes.
>
> Would you know of any way I could get diagrams of some of these? I have a
> number of pictures, but they don't give a very good indication of all the
> measurements.
>
> Thanks,
> Shanku
>

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: Excursions

Date: 23 May 1998 18:08:00 -0500


> track gauge is minor and can be fixed. austrialian rails has many places
> where gauge is different from one province to another, they cope. I
> believe this could be fixed.

I think it is a lot more difficult for steam locos compared to
diesels/electrics (where you can easily alter power bogies). Also,
I am not sure, but I think the LOADING gauge for Chinese
rolling stock may increase that of India in height.

But it would be an incredibly lovely sight: A Chinese QJ
or SY class dragon on an Indian line........

--
Jayant S : IDStudio : TTIL : ERC : TELCO
Pimpri : Pune : 411 018 : INDIA
tel - 91(212)774261 exn 2534
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: WCG2 & WCG1 Locomotive

Date: 24 May 1998 01:29:00 -0500


Yo Gang !

The WCG 2 is the purpose built freight loco of the 1.5 KVDC section of
the C.R. Mumbai Division.
The hellish noise of the loco is its most prominent feature. It is
caused by the blowers used to cool the dynamic brake resistors. The
noise is NOT caused by the traction motor blowers. A lop sided design
policy keeps the braking resistor blowers on all the time, whether the
loco is braking or not.
I have seen the loco shunting without the blower on, when it is not any
more noisy than a WAM 4.
The WD2 also has dynamic brakes but the shrill braking blower comes on
only when the Dynamic Brake is actually being used.
Another source of the sound in the WCG2 is the Motor Generator set.
Mumbai division has about 50 WCG2s. All the locos have Center Buffer
Couplers (CBCs) and some have Dual brakes (Vacuum as well as Air).
The cab layout is cramped and the driver's seat has to be folded before
another person can enter the cab. The wide parallel wind screens offer a
superlative view as compared to the other DC locos with a 'nose'. Once
the loco gets going all the noise and cacophony is really behind you and
it is quite a comfortable loco to travel in. The low gearing limits the
max. speed to about 80 KMPH, although I believe recently the speed limit
has been raised to 95 Kmph.

There was a period around 1992 -1996 when the Mumbai division were
desperately short of motive power due to the aging and failure prone
WCM1/2/4/5 fleet. The punctuality of trains in and out of CSTM went
haywire due to loco failure. During this period the WCG2 was used on
many Mail Express runs. But the 'Deccan Queen' has been hauled only ONCE
by a WCG2 and only a few times by a WDM2 when its power, the WCM1
failed.
The Ghat 'banking' duties in the Bhore ghat (Karjat - Lonavala) and
Thull ghat (Kasara - Igatpuri) is exclusively handled today by WCG2s.

One peculiar feature of the WCG 2 is the 'vernier notch' which enables
the loco to accelerate with really tiny steps. This means that the
driver has to make a number of movements before the loco really comes in
speed. This means - move to notch one - then move the vernier notch
lever many times in tiny movements before moving to notch two. This is
in direct contrast to the WCM class locos which have only 33 notches.
But I know it is possible to notch up faster in the WCG 2 by holding the
vernier notch lever in one corner and then rotating only the master
controller.

I have done it once - everyone must do it once - move between the front
cab and the rear cab of the WCG2 when moving. The blower sound is LOUD
and various air intakes suck at your loose clothes as you walk on the
checkered steel sheets floor board that flex slightly under your feet.
Even in this hell, one is filled with a sense of happiness. It is after
a dear locomotive doing extremely hard work.
With 4000 HP on the tap the loco does not get easily tired. It is common
to see freight trains in the ghat section with two WCG2s in the front
and a further three locos as the back as bankers.

The WCG 1 or EF / 1 was the 'Crocodile' styles predecessor of the WCG2.
It had a side rod motion driven by two 650 HP motors in the nose. Being
a 'Crocodile' the front bogie and the front nose moved side to side as
the loco went over curves.

A few locos are still around, being the vintage of 1930s I guess. Our
pals in Mumbai can confirm fresh sightings of the WCG 1s. They make a
curious moaning sound when at rest, on the run the swishing sound of the
link motion can be heard.

Incidentally the local name for the WCG 1 is 'Khekda'or 'Crab' after the
ungainly link motion rather than the 'Crocodile' as in Europe. All the
older Mumbai division drivers who started their career as shunting
assistants in the WCG 1 spoke very highly of tractive characteristics of
the loco - it would never bog down on any slope with any load. Their
grouse was that they had to copiously lubricate all the linkages at all
the stops in any weather.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Paul Davies <8daviep1@uk.email

Subject: Re: Diagrams of locos

Date: 23 May 1998 14:29:00 -0500


I know that drawings for the Nilgiri Rack tanks will be coming out sometime in
the future in Continental Modeller ( a UK modelling magazine) - because I
organised it. I will post details when I know what's happening.
Rgds,
Paul.

Paul Davies.
NWSM Support Specialist,
PC Support,
IBM On-site at Lloyds Bank Ltd, Canons House, Bristol. UK

From: Paul Davies <8daviep1@uk.email

Subject: Re: Diagrams of locos

Date: 23 May 1998 14:29:00 -0500


I'm certainly interested in any/all Steam Loco drawings you have. Tell me how
much they cost, and I will post you some money. I certainly agree that it is
imperative that someone obtains as many of these drawings as possible, as the
information needs to be preserved for the future - not only for the purpose of
making new parts in case locos are preserved, but also because they are part of
India's heritage!
Rgds,
Paul.

Paul Davies.
NWSM Support Specialist,
PC Support,
IBM On-site at Lloyds Bank Ltd, Canons House, Bristol. UK.

From: Paul Davies <8daviep1@uk.email

Subject: Re: Diagrams of locos

Date: 23 May 1998 14:30:00 -0500


I'm also interested in getting drawings of Indian locos. Perhaps we should
start a drawings repository. I can put it on my website. Is anyone interested?
Rgds,
Paul.


Paul Davies.
NWSM Support Specialist,
PC Support,
IBM On-site at Lloyds Bank Ltd, Cannons House, Bristol.

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: Diagrams of locos

Date: 24 May 1998 01:50:00 -0500


> I'm also interested in getting drawings of Indian locos. Perhaps we should
> start a drawings repository. I can put it on my website. Is anyone
> interested ?
Be great if you could do this: I am sure many of us want to model
IR. I used to have drawings for many of the diesel locos which
I misplaced while moving: if I can recover them I will send them
to you later this year.

--
Jayant S : IDStudio : TTIL : ERC : TELCO
Pimpri : Pune : 411 018 : INDIA
tel - 91(212)774261 exn 2534
--

From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@cyberspace.email

Subject: WDM2c ??

Date: 23 May 1998 10:06:00 -0500


Hi Gang,

I returned from a trip to New Delhi last week, and man, as far as
teh rail scene is concerned, Delhi is HAPPENING!! Here is the info

1) WDM2c in Rajdhani colours sighted and photographed. Any info ??? The
photos will be available on our website soon.

2) WAP4 and WAP6 also shot. WAP6 in its original ( non-Rajdhani colours )
screaming through Nizamuddin Station. Expect the shots on our site soon.

3) If you are heading for Delhi, make sure you check out the NDLS
outstation shed. Some of you must have been to the Vidyavihar outstation
or at least have seen the VT outstation shed while pulling into Bombay.
Well the NDLS out has WAP's and WAM's like the above outs have WCAM's and
WCM's. WAP1e's, WAP4's, WAP6, WAM4's in so many different colours! Its an
amazing sight.

4) On the way out of Delhi, heading south, you get to see the TKD WDM's
and these in their various colour schemes.

Wait up for the additions to our website!

Siddhartha

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Steam Query

Date: 24 May 1998 18:06:00 -0500


Just a question regarding steam locomotive design in India:
Why did almost all 20th century steam classes in India have
very small smokebox doors ? I think this also happened to
a few steam classes in Australia.

Anything to do with hot weather operation ?
--
Jayant S : IDStudio : TTIL : ERC : TELCO
Pimpri : Pune : 411 018 : INDIA
tel - 91(212)774261 exn 2534
--

From: Dr. Shirish Yande <yandesh@giaspn01.email

Subject: (no subject)

Date: 24 May 1998 19:21:00 -0500


Hi everyone,

Indian Railway Time Table uses the time 24 00 hrs as well as 00 00 hrs,
which are synonymous. Does anybody know what rule is used in selecting
these numbers. There sure is a rule.

I shall get back in a couple of days.

Dr. Shirish Yande

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