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From: Auroprem Kandaswami <kandaswa@apple.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 08 May 1998 06:05:00 -0500


Apurva,

As far as CR is concerned (at least in Mumbai), unfortunately
there has never been a train, closely equivalent to a Rajdhani
or AK express until this time. Not even a train matching the
superb grandeur/performance of Frontier Mail or Paschim Express.

You mentioned it right. It is only the Deccan Queen which
has been the 'prestige of the CR'. The Mumbai-Pune
Shatabdi Exp., introduced in 1996 - is merely a political
train (introduced by Rale Mantriji from Pune) - it merely
equals the Deccan Queen in run time or is probably slower
by about 5 minutes.

As for the No. 2 Position, I could think of the BB-FZP
Punjab Mail and also BB-LKO Pushpak Express. Probably
BB-HWH Gitanjali Express is another contender for
this slot. Other than these, I do not consider any other
CR trains originating from Mumbai (all the three
terminus - CST / Dadar / Kurla ) to be of any kind of
"superb class", when compared to the prides and glories
of the Western Railway, originating from Mumbai Central:

MCT-NDLS Rajdhani Express
MCT-NDLS AK Rajdhani Express
MCT-ASR Frontier Mail
MCT-ASR Paschim Express
MCT-JAT Jammu-Tawi SuperFast Express
MCT-ADI Shatabdi Express
MCT-ADI Karnavati Express
MCT-Surat Flying Ranee
... (some more ?)

Is someone aware of any other better trains of CR (in Mumbai) ?

- Auro

>
>
>PROTIP.DASGUPTA wrote:
>
>> Apurva,
>> to start with Rajdhani locos to the best of my knowledge were never
>> powered by Vatwa powers, but always by Ratlam locos. Vatwa never
>> maintained in its stable a fleet of Rajdhani special locos!! I was always
>> Ratlam!
>
>Maybe what I saw was the AK Rajdhani. A few years ago, I have seen a 'stud'
>WDM2 pair from Vatwas (just arrived and cooling with loud clicks from the
>cylinder blocks) at Bandra Diesel shed. I was infromed by the shed foreman
>that this was the Rajdhani 'power'. It had all the trappings of the Rajdhani
>power including the connector for the 'in cab' telephone with the telephone
>cable between the two locos.Yet the normal loco for the Rajdhani has always
>been the cream and red pair from RTM.What is the equivalent 'train of
>prestige' on the CR, in Mumbai. Only the Deccan Queen I guess. Which train on
>the CR at Mumbai will be on the no 2 position and which will be the long
>distance train of prestige on the CR ?
>
>> Secondly, the rumour that youve heard is untrue as Baroda is the cheduled
>> driver change for rajdhani, has always been and continues to be so today!
>> Rajdhani crews on WR operate from BCT-BRC, then a crew change till RTM
>> then another crew change till KTT and then the last crew change till NDLS!
>> 4 crews in all! So the problem of another crew travelling was never there
>> and even if such a case arose surely they could have travelled in the cab
>> of the second loco! Also the problem would therefor never arise for
>> WCAM2's!
>> WCAM1's were never used on Rajdhani cause the rake size and weight were to
>> much for WCAM1's to handle. This is not to say that the WCAM1's were
>> incapable but that the optimum HP required to haul the Rajdhani...to
>> maximise acceleration and deceleration was about 3200 HP+ The WCAM1 were
>> only 2600HP as was the case with the WDM2's. That is why even the Rajdhani
>> when it was diesel hauled needed 2 WDM2's to haul it, as there HP was
>> 2600HP each! Also till very recently all WCAM1's were vacuum braked and
>> could therfor not handle an air braked rake! I have seen on occasion the
>> AK being hauled by an airbraked WCAM1 but this is possible as the AK Raj
>> is on average 5 coaches lighter then the Raj rake, so a WCAM1 can handle
>> it!
>> Regards,
>> Bharat Vohra
>
>
>
>

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbalasub@mail.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 08 May 1998 15:11:00 -0500


> Hi All!
> I agree with Auro about the fact that CR doesnt really have prestigious
> trains like WR. Although I must say that Punjab Mail and Frontier Mail
are
> the oldest trains on CR and WRrespectively and go back a long way when
> they used to run on the GIP and BBCI from Bombay to Peshawar/Pakistan!!
> In fact Punjab Mail and Frontier Mail used to be competing trains for the
> route and since Frontiers route was shorter to West Punjab it always
> maintained its superiority over the Punjab Mail.

The most prestigious train for CR is obviously the New Delhi - Bhopal
Shatabdi Exp.
which they proudly mention from time-to-time in the Indian Railways
magazines

Let's talk about prestigious trains from Mumbai CST as compared to Mumbai
Central.
At present, the Deccan Queen Exp. and the Mumbai-Pune Shatabdi Exp. are the
two
most prestigious trains from Mumbai CST - both have distinctive colors and
are the fastest
between Mumbai and Pune. DQ - 3 hrs. 25 mts. both ways, Shatabdi - 3 hrs.
20/25 mts.

CST (then VT) fared better in the late 80s when it had more genuine
superfasts such
as the Bombay-Secunderabad Minar Exp. - run-time used to be 13 hrs. and the
ONLY
train in the Wadi-Daund section not to halt for crossings (I checked this
in my CR working TT)
In addition, it would overtake the Trivandrum/Cochin-Rakjot Exps. between
Kurduwadi and Daund.
Both the Indrayani and Pragati used to be superfast trains and just 5/10
mts. slower than the DQ.
By summer of '95, the Indrayani had lost its color, slowed down to 3 hrs.
45 mts., and acquired
Kalyan and Karjat as halts. The Pragati got slowed down just after the
Shatabdi was introduced.

The Punjab Mail speed-up happened in 1989 when its booked speed was raised
to 100 kmph.
from 90. In fact, my uncle (who was the DRM of Bhusaval at that time) had
a role in this. It's
Bombay-Delhi run-time was about 25 hrs. Now, the Up. train gets overtaken
by the Shatabdi
Exp. between N.Delhi and Mathura and its run-time has increased to 26 hrs.
Moreover, they have
added Kosi Kalan, Ganj Basoda, Sanchi, Banapura and Khirkiya.

The Panchavati Exp. used to be a classy train as well (in the late 70s).
It had only two passenger
halts - Dadar and Nasik.

I would rate the Gitanjali Exp. as the most prestigious train from Mumbai
CST towards Bhusaval.
It is the fastest in its route in terms of both schedule as well as halts
and still ignores important halts
such as Wardha and Chakradharpur. Of course, it is now but a shade of its
former self - just
six halts and Bombay-Howrah in less than 29 hrs.!!!! I wish I had
photographed its majestic
Vermillion Red - Yellow livery.

Vijay

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <sncf@godrejnet.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 09 May 1998 17:44:00 -0500


> Apurva,
>
> As far as CR is concerned (at least in Mumbai), unfortunately
> there has never been a train, closely equivalent to a Rajdhani
> or AK express until this time. Not even a train matching the
> superb grandeur/performance of Frontier Mail or Paschim Express.
>

Hi guys,

Are we talking here only about trains from Bombay or Central Railway as
whole. If whole then why forget the prestigous TAJ EXPRESS. I have been on
this train many times even when it used to be steam hauled and it was
great. I had even managed to footplate on it's return journey from Agra.
The loco as well as the rake was kept in spic and span condition.

And for heaven's sake please don't compare Flying Ranee as a prestigeous
train now. Yes it used to be years back but now look at the condition of
it's double deck rake. I remember during 60's The Flying Ranee (then it
was also known as The Flying Queen) has a blue rake then it was changed to
cream and brown. The WP hauling it was also in blue and silver with a
ornate crown on it's funnel, wings attached on both the sides of the
boiler and stars on it's cylinders. The buffer beams were bright red and
the lamps gleaming. This was when the driver had his own locomotive and
prizes were given to the best maintained one.

Its was during either 1969 or 70 Air India had acquied it's first Jumbo
Jet "Emperor Ashoka" and within a week it was thrown open for the public
too see.I too along with my friends had been to see it. When we were
crossing the footbridge of Santa Cruz station we heard a whistle and
stopped. Imagine what we saw a Double headed Flying Ranee and the
locomotives were WP's. During that particular summer just to clear the
rush Flying Ranee had extra coaches added and to pull them two WP's.
Remember Flying Ranee till a few years back had early evening
depature on Saturdays.What a grand sight nothing in compare to a jumbo
jet. Later in school I remember talking about Flying Ranee and not the
Boeing 747 and the boys considered me to be an Idiot. It's nostalgia for
me.

Recently at an exhibition held by the Western Railway I mentioned The
Double Headed Flying Ranee to the C.P.R.O. and he drew a blank. He was not
aware of it.

Regards
Viraf


==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 09 May 1998 18:39:00 -0500


On Fri, 8 May 1998, Auroprem Kandaswami wrote:

>
> Apurva,
>
> As far as CR is concerned (at least in Mumbai), unfortunately
> there has never been a train, closely equivalent to a Rajdhani
> or AK express until this time. Not even a train matching the
> superb grandeur/performance of Frontier Mail or Paschim Express.
>
> You mentioned it right. It is only the Deccan Queen which
> has been the 'prestige of the CR'. The Mumbai-Pune
> Shatabdi Exp., introduced in 1996 - is merely a political
> train (introduced by Rale Mantriji from Pune) - it merely
> equals the Deccan Queen in run time or is probably slower
> by about 5 minutes.
>
> As for the No. 2 Position, I could think of the BB-FZP
> Punjab Mail and also BB-LKO Pushpak Express. Probably
> BB-HWH Gitanjali Express is another contender for
> this slot. Other than these, I do not consider any other
> CR trains originating from Mumbai (all the three
> terminus - CST / Dadar / Kurla ) to be of any kind of
> "superb class", when compared to the prides and glories
> of the Western Railway, originating from Mumbai Central:
>
> MCT-NDLS Rajdhani Express
> MCT-NDLS AK Rajdhani Express
> MCT-ASR Frontier Mail
> MCT-ASR Paschim Express
> MCT-JAT Jammu-Tawi SuperFast Express
> MCT-ADI Shatabdi Express
> MCT-ADI Karnavati Express
> MCT-Surat Flying Ranee
> ... (some more ?)
>
> Is someone aware of any other better trains of CR (in Mumbai) ?
>
> - Auro
>
> >
> >
> >PROTIP.DASGUPTA wrote:
> >
> >> Apurva,
> >> to start with Rajdhani locos to the best of my knowledge were never
> >> powered by Vatwa powers, but always by Ratlam locos. Vatwa never
> >> maintained in its stable a fleet of Rajdhani special locos!! I was always
> >> Ratlam!
> >
> >Maybe what I saw was the AK Rajdhani. A few years ago, I have seen a 'stud'
> >WDM2 pair from Vatwas (just arrived and cooling with loud clicks from the
> >cylinder blocks) at Bandra Diesel shed. I was infromed by the shed foreman
> >that this was the Rajdhani 'power'. It had all the trappings of the Rajdhani
> >power including the connector for the 'in cab' telephone with the telephone
> >cable between the two locos.Yet the normal loco for the Rajdhani has always
> >been the cream and red pair from RTM.What is the equivalent 'train of
> >prestige' on the CR, in Mumbai. Only the Deccan Queen I guess. Which train on
> >the CR at Mumbai will be on the no 2 position and which will be the long
> >distance train of prestige on the CR ?
> >
> >> Secondly, the rumour that youve heard is untrue as Baroda is the cheduled
> >> driver change for rajdhani, has always been and continues to be so today!
> >> Rajdhani crews on WR operate from BCT-BRC, then a crew change till RTM
> >> then another crew change till KTT and then the last crew change till NDLS!
> >> 4 crews in all! So the problem of another crew travelling was never there
> >> and even if such a case arose surely they could have travelled in the cab
> >> of the second loco! Also the problem would therefor never arise for
> >> WCAM2's!
> >> WCAM1's were never used on Rajdhani cause the rake size and weight were to
> >> much for WCAM1's to handle. This is not to say that the WCAM1's were
> >> incapable but that the optimum HP required to haul the Rajdhani...to
> >> maximise acceleration and deceleration was about 3200 HP+ The WCAM1 were
> >> only 2600HP as was the case with the WDM2's. That is why even the Rajdhani
> >> when it was diesel hauled needed 2 WDM2's to haul it, as there HP was
> >> 2600HP each! Also till very recently all WCAM1's were vacuum braked and
> >> could therfor not handle an air braked rake! I have seen on occasion the
> >> AK being hauled by an airbraked WCAM1 but this is possible as the AK Raj
> >> is on average 5 coaches lighter then the Raj rake, so a WCAM1 can handle
> >> it!
> >> Regards,
> >> Bharat Vohra
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

P.P.SAKLATWALLA
4226/4232/4237

Yesterday whilst travelling to Churchgate I happened to notice that Gujrat
mail has been confered with the status of A superfast train. Its no.
2901,
so you can add to your list :
Gujrat mail
Jaipur superfast express
Vadodra express.

At any given time Wr has more prestigious trains than CR. You could also
count AVantika express between Bom Indore

Of course in CR apart from Deccan Queen, There is Punjab Mail, Pushpak
Exp, And in no way one can leave out Gitanjali Express Which is the
fastest long distant and even prestigious. One may also take the Dadar
Chennai Express. Apart from these there are no trains on CR.

From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 08 May 1998 21:46:00 -0500


Apurva,
WDM2's used to haul the Rajdhani all the way to Delhi till the track was
fully electrified and till WAP1's were available on WR to haul it!
Once the route was electrified, the loco change point was Ratlam, which
was the home shed for the locos. From therea WAP1 from BRC would take over
the run to Delhi. After the WDM2's were withdrawn form the run the WCAM2
used to haull it from BCT and the loco change used to and still happens to
this day at Baroda, where either a WAP1 or WAP4 takes over to Delhi.
Same with the AK Raj!
Also a new bridge was built some years back over the Bassien North and
South Creeks, which has no speed restriction for any train and definetely
not for Rajdhani any more!
Regards, Bharat Vohra

From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 08 May 1998 21:54:00 -0500


Hi All!
I agree with Auro about the fact that CR doesnt really have prestigious
trains like WR. Although I must say that Punjab Mail and Frontier Mail are
the oldest trains on CR and WRrespectively and go back a long way when
they used to run on the GIP and BBCI from Bombay to Peshawar/Pakistan!!
In fact Punjab Mail and Frontier Mail used to be competing trains for the
route and since Frontiers route was shorter to West Punjab it always
maintained its superiority over the Punjab Mail.
These two r\trains were the pride of their companies.....ie the GIP and
BBCI! Today Punjab Mail is still a respected train on CR and has just got
the status of Superfast back after being deprived of it for a long time!
Also till very recently it was the only CR train carrying first class AC!!
One more train we have missed out which is definetely prestigious to CR is
the Delhi Agra Taj Express!!
One more point I would like to make is that both the Howrah Bombay Mail
and the Geetanjali are South Eastern railway trains ans not CR trains and
in fact occupy thir pride of place on SER!
Regards,
Bharat Vohra

From: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <shrinivas@rocketmail.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 08 May 1998 18:33:00 -0500


---Auroprem Kandaswami <kandaswa@apple.email wrote:
>
>
> Apurva,
>
> As far as CR is concerned (at least in Mumbai), unfortunately
> there has never been a train, closely equivalent to a Rajdhani
> or AK express until this time. Not even a train matching the
> superb grandeur/performance of Frontier Mail or Paschim Express.
>
> You mentioned it right. It is only the Deccan Queen which
> has been the 'prestige of the CR'. The Mumbai-Pune
> Shatabdi Exp., introduced in 1996 - is merely a political
> train (introduced by Rale Mantriji from Pune) - it merely
> equals the Deccan Queen in run time or is probably slower
> by about 5 minutes.
>
> As for the No. 2 Position, I could think of the BB-FZP
> Punjab Mail and also BB-LKO Pushpak Express. Probably
> BB-HWH Gitanjali Express is another contender for
> this slot. Other than these, I do not consider any other
> CR trains originating from Mumbai (all the three
> terminus - CST / Dadar / Kurla ) to be of any kind of
> "superb class", when compared to the prides and glories
> of the Western Railway, originating from Mumbai Central:
>
> MCT-NDLS Rajdhani Express
> MCT-NDLS AK Rajdhani Express
> MCT-ASR Frontier Mail
> MCT-ASR Paschim Express
> MCT-JAT Jammu-Tawi SuperFast Express
> MCT-ADI Shatabdi Express
> MCT-ADI Karnavati Express
> MCT-Surat Flying Ranee
> ... (some more ?)
>
> Is someone aware of any other better trains of CR (in Mumbai) ?
>
> - Auro
>

Hi all,

What Auro observes is very true.The CR has no match to WR as far as
the prestigious trains are concerned.Prestigious trains missing in the
above list are Gujarat Mail and Mumbai-Vadodara Exp. which like trains
in above list, have priority over other trains in case of delays.

By the way there is one more interesting observation.WR operates
maximum no. of trains having AC I coaches in Mumbai Central - Vadodara
section.

The trains are :

1. Gujarat Mail
2. Saurashtra Mail
3. Frontier Mail ( now renamed to Golden Temple Mail)
4. Mumbai-Vadodara Exp.
5. Rajdhani Exp.
6. AK Rajdhani Exp.

All these trains also have AC 2T coaches.
Additionally following trains have AC 2T coaches:

1. Paschim Exp.
2. Mumbai Central -Jaipur Superfast Exp.
3. Mumbai Central -Gandhidham Kutch Exp.
4. Bandra Terminus - Gorakhpur Avadh Exp.
5. Swaraj Exp. ( Mumbai Central - Jammu Tawi Superfast Exp.)



-- Shrinivas Bhatwadekar

====================================================================
Courage is the complement of fear. A man who is fearless cannot be
courageous.
-- Robert Heinlein








_________________________________________________________
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From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Train of Prestige

Date: 09 May 1998 23:25:00 -0500


Hi Gang,

Well, the longest (largest - having the most tonnage/bulk) train out of
CSTM is the 2033 Dn Pushpak Express to Lucknow (LKO) with 22 coaches
right out of CSTM. Also the 6529 Dn Udhyan Exp to Bangalore (SBC)
converts to 22 coaches after Solapur (SUR), butnot at CSTM.
The train with the longest travel is the humble 1081 Jayanti Janta to
Kanya Kumari (CAPE)
The train with least number of stops is the 2027 Shatabdi to Pune (PA)
This train when introduced had NO stops except for technical halts at
Khandala, Monkey Hill, and Nagnath / Thakurwadi in the Up direction and
Karjat / Lonavala in the down direction.
The fastest train to the destination (not trains to Pune) was the Minar
to Secundrabad. The rake used to wait in SC for a while and then be
renamed as Konark to Bhubaneshwar. Now the whole rake goes all the way
from CSTM to BBS, but slower than before.
The train with the most negative thoughts attached to it must be the
3004 to Howrah (HWH) via Allahabad (ALD) ? or 8029 Kurla Howrah Exp
(CLAT-HWH) via Nagpur (NGP).
If the DQ is the Train of Prestige then it certainly does not as hard
working as the WR trains.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: Train of Prestige

Date: 10 May 1998 03:35:00 -0500


What is the 'power' used on the PRaj express, is it Single or Double headed ?
Why is there only one train with 24 coaches ?

Apurva Bahadur

rpthakur wrote:

> THE LONGEST TRAIN IN INDIA IS 2417/2418 PRAYAGARAJ EXPRESS RUNNING BETWEEN
> NDLS-ALD WITH 24 COACHES
> RANJAN THAKUR
>
> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > Hi Gang,
> >
> > Well, the longest (largest - having the most tonnage/bulk) train out of
> > CSTM is the 2033 Dn Pushpak Express to Lucknow (LKO) with 22 coaches
> > right out of CSTM. Also the 6529 Dn Udhyan Exp to Bangalore (SBC)
> > converts to 22 coaches after Solapur (SUR), butnot at CSTM.
> > The train with the longest travel is the humble 1081 Jayanti Janta to
> > Kanya Kumari (CAPE)
> > The train with least number of stops is the 2027 Shatabdi to Pune (PA)
> > This train when introduced had NO stops except for technical halts at
> > Khandala, Monkey Hill, and Nagnath / Thakurwadi in the Up direction and
> > Karjat / Lonavala in the down direction.
> > The fastest train to the destination (not trains to Pune) was the Minar
> > to Secundrabad. The rake used to wait in SC for a while and then be
> > renamed as Konark to Bhubaneshwar. Now the whole rake goes all the way
> > from CSTM to BBS, but slower than before.
> > The train with the most negative thoughts attached to it must be the
> > 3004 to Howrah (HWH) via Allahabad (ALD) ? or 8029 Kurla Howrah Exp
> > (CLAT-HWH) via Nagpur (NGP).
> > If the DQ is the Train of Prestige then it certainly does not as hard
> > working as the WR trains.
> >
> > Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: New air braked Air Conditioned coaches

Date: 10 May 1998 05:54:00 -0500


The newer RCF (Kapurthala) built air braked coaches like the AC 3 T
sleeper and also the AC 2T sleeper have the air conditioning equipment
on the roof. The exact location is on top of the toilets at either end.
The air conditioning system is sealed and modular. The piping is totally
contained in the module on top of the potty. In the older A/C coaches,
the entire coach had to be detained if a fault developed in the A/C, now
the AC unit is replaced within four hours and sent out on a run.
Normally only one set of the compressors are working with the second set
as standby or in the peak summer months.
As the A/C is roof mounted, the toilet water tanks are now located
underfloor. There is now an electric pump which keeps the water pressure
in the pipes. A strange observation is that the pump is shut off when
the watering is done at wayside stations. Why can't the pump be running
all the time, which it does, when the coach is standing at any other
station ?
The 3T version of this newer coach contains an additional air vent for
the centre berth in the main cubicle. Some of these coached have 'double
width' windows and have excellent visibility with lighter coloured
glass.
The worst A/C travel I have ever had was by 1447 Dn. Jabalpur(JBP) -
Howrah(HWH) Shakti Punj Express, where the glass in the window was the
opaque type normally fitted in the toilet windows along with a heavy
grill on the outside.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Kartik Subramanian <ksubrama@eecs.email

Subject: Re: Train of Prestige

Date: 09 May 1998 10:14:00 -0500


Hi Apurva et al,
The PrayagRaj Express was hauled by a single WAP1 - all the 24 coaches -
there were around 2-3 'general' coaches, 7-8 AC coaches and around 11-12
three-tier 2nd class coaches. It used to leave Allahabad at 10:00pm ( or
was it 9:30pm ?) and reach New Delhi station at 7:00am the next morning.
Every single seat on this train was taken , 365 days a year!...really
quite incredible..
After leaving Allahabad, it would halt at Kanpur and then (i think) at
Tundla. It would slow down considerably near Ghaziabad, but would never
halt there. It really was quite a fast train and kept on time.

I have also seen the PRaj Express being hauled by a WCAM1, a single WCAM1.
This was sometime in the '92-'94 period after which the WAP1's took over.

----
Kartik

On Sat, 9 May 1998, Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> What is the 'power' used on the PRaj express, is it Single or Double headed ?
> Why is there only one train with 24 coaches ?
>
> Apurva Bahadur
>
> rpthakur wrote:
>
> > THE LONGEST TRAIN IN INDIA IS 2417/2418 PRAYAGARAJ EXPRESS RUNNING BETWEEN
> > NDLS-ALD WITH 24 COACHES
> > RANJAN THAKUR

From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: Train of Prestige

Date: 10 May 1998 05:19:00 -0500


THE PRAYAGRAJ IS HAULED BY ONE OF THE NEW IMPORTED WAP/5 UNITS.

BEST REGARDS.

SHANKAR.


At 06:05 PM 5/9/98 +0530, Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>What is the 'power' used on the PRaj express, is it Single or Double headed ?
>Why is there only one train with 24 coaches ?
>
>Apurva Bahadur
>
>rpthakur wrote:
>
>> THE LONGEST TRAIN IN INDIA IS 2417/2418 PRAYAGARAJ EXPRESS RUNNING BETWEEN
>> NDLS-ALD WITH 24 COACHES
>> RANJAN THAKUR
>>
>> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Gang,
>> >
>> > Well, the longest (largest - having the most tonnage/bulk) train out of
>> > CSTM is the 2033 Dn Pushpak Express to Lucknow (LKO) with 22 coaches
>> > right out of CSTM. Also the 6529 Dn Udhyan Exp to Bangalore (SBC)
>> > converts to 22 coaches after Solapur (SUR), butnot at CSTM.
>> > The train with the longest travel is the humble 1081 Jayanti Janta to
>> > Kanya Kumari (CAPE)
>> > The train with least number of stops is the 2027 Shatabdi to Pune (PA)
>> > This train when introduced had NO stops except for technical halts at
>> > Khandala, Monkey Hill, and Nagnath / Thakurwadi in the Up direction and
>> > Karjat / Lonavala in the down direction.
>> > The fastest train to the destination (not trains to Pune) was the Minar
>> > to Secundrabad. The rake used to wait in SC for a while and then be
>> > renamed as Konark to Bhubaneshwar. Now the whole rake goes all the way
>> > from CSTM to BBS, but slower than before.
>> > The train with the most negative thoughts attached to it must be the
>> > 3004 to Howrah (HWH) via Allahabad (ALD) ? or 8029 Kurla Howrah Exp
>> > (CLAT-HWH) via Nagpur (NGP).
>> > If the DQ is the Train of Prestige then it certainly does not as hard
>> > working as the WR trains.
>> >
>> > Apurva Bahadur
>
>
>
>
>

From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@cyberspace.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 09 May 1998 13:21:00 -0500


Hallo All,

Pulled in this morningon the AK Rajdhani.Baroda to NDLS was
courtesy a very brightly painted WAP1e, the photos of which you will get
to see on our page in a while as also of the WAP4 shot at NDLS and the
Chandigarh Shatabdi Loco.

Siddhartha.

From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: Train of Prestige

Date: 10 May 1998 08:38:00 -0500


Kartik Subramanian wrote:

> Hi Apurva et al,
> The PrayagRaj Express was hauled by a single WAP1 - all the 24 coaches -
> there were around 2-3 'general' coaches, 7-8 AC coaches and around 11-12
> three-tier 2nd class coaches. It used to leave Allahabad at 10:00pm ( or
> was it 9:30pm ?) and reach New Delhi station at 7:00am the next morning.
> Every single seat on this train was taken , 365 days a year!...really
> quite incredible..
> After leaving Allahabad, it would halt at Kanpur and then (i think) at
> Tundla. It would slow down considerably near Ghaziabad, but would never
> halt there. It really was quite a fast train and kept on time.
>
> I have also seen the PRaj Express being hauled by a WCAM1, a single WCAM1.
> This was sometime in the '92-'94 period after which the WAP1's took over.

What was a WCAM1 doing in the NDSL- ALD sector ????, surely you don't mean the
Rajdhani ?

> Apurva Bahadur
>
> ----
> Kartik
>
> On Sat, 9 May 1998, Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > What is the 'power' used on the PRaj express, is it Single or Double headed ?
> > Why is there only one train with 24 coaches ?
> >
> > Apurva Bahadur
> >
> > rpthakur wrote:
> >
> > > THE LONGEST TRAIN IN INDIA IS 2417/2418 PRAYAGARAJ EXPRESS RUNNING BETWEEN
> > > NDLS-ALD WITH 24 COACHES
> > > RANJAN THAKUR

From: GlynThomas <GlynThomas@aol.email

Subject: Indian Railway Study Group

Date: 09 May 1998 17:20:00 -0500


Folks,
there seems to be a lot of interest in the old IRSG material. I have dug out
the old newsletters. Kelvin managed to publish 10 newsletters between 1991 and
1995. The format was a main newsletter containing a number of articles (many
with diagrams), with datasheets attached. The emphasis of the group was on
historical research, instead of current IR activity like IRFCA.

It seems to me that there wouldn't be too many concerns over copyright with
the datasheets, especially if the information was credited, considering that
they'd need to be reformatted into HTML. I'm prepared to do this, although I
won't commit to a date, since I'm busy at work. I would be worried about
copyright on the articles. Kelvin's final letter stated that copyright
remained with the original authors, so I think it would require checking with
original authors (a long winded, but not impossible task). I get the
impression that Kelvin redrew several of the drawings, so he may be prepared
to allow publication of his drawings. I'll write to him to find out.

Regarding a couple of individual comments. I support Philip Quiot's proposal
to bring a YP to Europe. It's a sad fact that steam engines are more likely to
be cared for in Europe that in India. The quoted price for a YP seems to be a
bargain, although the cost of transportation is likely to dwarf the purchase
price (a problem that BOHRT has run into with trying to bring British built
locos back to Britain from around the World).

Brad, with reference to the Alcos in India, there didn't appear to by much
published by IRSG regarding diesels at all, just one newsletter dedicated to
them. I'll try and summarise what they said about Alcos later this week, but I
doubt it'll get you much further.

Glyn

From: Kartik Subramanian <ksubrama@eecs.email

Subject: Re: Train of Prestige

Date: 09 May 1998 17:25:00 -0500


On Sun, 10 May 1998, PROTIP.DASGUPTA wrote:

> Kartik,
> I think you made a bit of an error there...you mentioned that the Prayag
> Raj Express was hauled by a WCAM1 at one time....I think youre probably
> refring to a WAM4 or something, cause WCAM1's never operated in the area!

Hi all,
I am sorry for my mistake - Now that I think of it , the Prayag Raj could
not have been hauled by the WCAM's....it must have been a WAM4 as Protip
has pointed out.
Thanks and sorry for the wrong information,
Regards,
Kartik

From: dheeraj <dheeraj@iitk.email

Subject: Re: Train of Prestige

Date: 10 May 1998 20:28:00 -0500


> Hi Apurva et al,
> The PrayagRaj Express was hauled by a single WAP1 - all the 24 coaches -
> there were around 2-3 'general' coaches, 7-8 AC coaches and around 11-12
> three-tier 2nd class coaches. It used to leave Allahabad at 10:00pm ( or
> was it 9:30pm ?) and reach New Delhi station at 7:00am the next morning.
> Every single seat on this train was taken , 365 days a year!...really
> quite incredible..
> After leaving Allahabad, it would halt at Kanpur and then (i think) at
> Tundla. It would slow down considerably near Ghaziabad, but would never
> halt there. It really was quite a fast train and kept on time.

Since I travel a lot by this train, may be I can add something. To
the best of my memory (I haven't tried to count the general coaches
on either end), it is still a 22-coach train, though there has been
a lot of talk of making it a 24-coach train. It has 14 sleeper
class coaches, 5 AC coaches (one AC-3T, two AC-2T, two HA types:
half AC-1st, half AC-2T), and 3 general. When I travelled by it
day before yesterday, the two HA coaches had been replaced by
one AC-1st class, and one AC-2T, so a total of 3 AC-2T coaches,
and there was utmost confusion in the train as everybody's
berth number had changed, and to cap it, there were three
different charts giving different berth numbers for everyone.)

The timings are: it leaves ALD at 09:30 PM, and reaches NDLS at
06:30 AM. In the reverse direction, it leaves NDLS at 09:30 PM,
and reaches ALD at 06:30 AM. The stops are Kanpur and Aligarh.
Aligarh was added some 4-5 years ago.

When it started it used to be hauled by WAM4, then it got a WAP1.
For last few months, I have been noticing a brand new WAP5, though
sometimes the new engine is missing. Like day before yesterday it
was a WAM4, and it still made it before time.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638 (Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413 (Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email

From: dheeraj <dheeraj@iitk.email

Subject: Re: New air braked Air Conditioned coaches

Date: 10 May 1998 20:30:00 -0500


> Some of these coached have 'double width' windows and
> have excellent visibility with lighter coloured glass.

All AC-3T coaches, and some of the newer AC-2T coaches have
this 'double width' windows with lighter coloured glass.
I love it.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638 (Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413 (Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email

From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email

Subject: Re: Train of Prestige

Date: 10 May 1998 00:04:00 -0500


Apurva,
The power used on the Prayag Raj Express from New Delhi to Allahbad is the
new ABB Three Phase Drive 6000HP WAP5/6 loco which in fact are all
currently baased on NR at Gaziabad shed!
In fact the Pryag Raj Exp was one of the forst trains to be hauled by this
class of loco!
Regards,
Bharat Vohra

From: Dr. Shirish Yande <yandesh@giaspn01.email

Subject: Re: BCT NDLS Rajdhani Exp.

Date: 11 May 1998 03:30:00 -0500


Dear Poras,
I coudn't agree more on your statement about "superclass" trains on CR leaving
Mumbai CST.
I do not consider Geetanjali Express as a contender of this class. It has never been
treated as a superfast by CR (except for the number that begins with2), nor has it
been given the Prestige of a superfast train by CR.
To me Punjab mail holds a nostalgic charm although its run cannot be called a
superfast run. So is 8001/8002 Mumbai Howrah Mail. its ancient , very popular and
has a reasonably good quality rake which is consistent.
The fastest train ,I feel, is the Hussain Sagar Express. on the section we are
talking about.
Most of the Ordinary mail/Express Trains in India do not travel over 60km/hr as the
average speed, Geetanjali included.
IR need do cchange the definition of a superfast train

Would my colleagues like to characterise "Superfast / Prestige Trains" on IR?
I would like to putforth the following criteria.
1. Average speed in excess of 60 km/hr.
2. A/C class accomodation in at least two varieties.
3. Pantry Car attached. Dining car whwrever possible.

At present IR calls the fastest train on any section a superfast Train.
What in your opinion should these criteria be?

SHIRISH
poras p.saklatwalla wrote:

> On Fri, 8 May 1998, Auroprem Kandaswami wrote:
>
> >
> > Apurva,
> >
> > As far as CR is concerned (at least in Mumbai), unfortunately
> > there has never been a train, closely equivalent to a Rajdhani
> > or AK express until this time. Not even a train matching the
> > superb grandeur/performance of Frontier Mail or Paschim Express.
> >
> > You mentioned it right. It is only the Deccan Queen which
> > has been the 'prestige of the CR'. The Mumbai-Pune
> > Shatabdi Exp., introduced in 1996 - is merely a political
> > train (introduced by Rale Mantriji from Pune) - it merely
> > equals the Deccan Queen in run time or is probably slower
> > by about 5 minutes.
> >
> > As for the No. 2 Position, I could think of the BB-FZP
> > Punjab Mail and also BB-LKO Pushpak Express. Probably
> > BB-HWH Gitanjali Express is another contender for
> > this slot. Other than these, I do not consider any other
> > CR trains originating from Mumbai (all the three
> > terminus - CST / Dadar / Kurla ) to be of any kind of
> > "superb class", when compared to the prides and glories
> > of the Western Railway, originating from Mumbai Central:
> >
> > MCT-NDLS Rajdhani Express
> > MCT-NDLS AK Rajdhani Express
> > MCT-ASR Frontier Mail
> > MCT-ASR Paschim Express
> > MCT-JAT Jammu-Tawi SuperFast Express
> > MCT-ADI Shatabdi Express
> > MCT-ADI Karnavati Express
> > MCT-Surat Flying Ranee
> > ... (some more ?)
> >
> > Is someone aware of any other better trains of CR (in Mumbai) ?
> >
> > - Auro
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >PROTIP.DASGUPTA wrote:
> > >
> > >> Apurva,
> > >> to start with Rajdhani locos to the best of my knowledge were never
> > >> powered by Vatwa powers, but always by Ratlam locos. Vatwa never
> > >> maintained in its stable a fleet of Rajdhani special locos!! I was always
> > >> Ratlam!
> > >
> > >Maybe what I saw was the AK Rajdhani. A few years ago, I have seen a 'stud'
> > >WDM2 pair from Vatwas (just arrived and cooling with loud clicks from the
> > >cylinder blocks) at Bandra Diesel shed. I was infromed by the shed foreman
> > >that this was the Rajdhani 'power'. It had all the trappings of the Rajdhani
> > >power including the connector for the 'in cab' telephone with the telephone
> > >cable between the two locos.Yet the normal loco for the Rajdhani has always
> > >been the cream and red pair from RTM.What is the equivalent 'train of
> > >prestige' on the CR, in Mumbai. Only the Deccan Queen I guess. Which train on
> > >the CR at Mumbai will be on the no 2 position and which will be the long
> > >distance train of prestige on the CR ?
> > >
> > >> Secondly, the rumour that youve heard is untrue as Baroda is the cheduled
> > >> driver change for rajdhani, has always been and continues to be so today!
> > >> Rajdhani crews on WR operate from BCT-BRC, then a crew change till RTM
> > >> then another crew change till KTT and then the last crew change till NDLS!
> > >> 4 crews in all! So the problem of another crew travelling was never there
> > >> and even if such a case arose surely they could have travelled in the cab
> > >> of the second loco! Also the problem would therefor never arise for
> > >> WCAM2's!
> > >> WCAM1's were never used on Rajdhani cause the rake size and weight were to
> > >> much for WCAM1's to handle. This is not to say that the WCAM1's were
> > >> incapable but that the optimum HP required to haul the Rajdhani...to
> > >> maximise acceleration and deceleration was about 3200 HP+ The WCAM1 were
> > >> only 2600HP as was the case with the WDM2's. That is why even the Rajdhani
> > >> when it was diesel hauled needed 2 WDM2's to haul it, as there HP was
> > >> 2600HP each! Also till very recently all WCAM1's were vacuum braked and
> > >> could therfor not handle an air braked rake! I have seen on occasion the
> > >> AK being hauled by an airbraked WCAM1 but this is possible as the AK Raj
> > >> is on average 5 coaches lighter then the Raj rake, so a WCAM1 can handle
> > >> it!
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Bharat Vohra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> P.P.SAKLATWALLA
> 4226/4232/4237
>
> Yesterday whilst travelling to Churchgate I happened to notice that Gujrat
> mail has been confered with the status of A superfast train. Its no.
> 2901,
> so you can add to your list :
> Gujrat mail
> Jaipur superfast express
> Vadodra express.
>
> At any given time Wr has more prestigious trains than CR. You could also
> count AVantika express between Bom Indore
>
> Of course in CR apart from Deccan Queen, There is Punjab Mail, Pushpak
> Exp, And in no way one can leave out Gitanjali Express Which is the
> fastest long distant and even prestigious. One may also take the Dadar
> Chennai Express. Apart from these there are no trains on CR.

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