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From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email

Subject: Re: brakes

Date: 19 Apr 1998 10:02:00 -0500


Hello!
The regenerative braking that you have been referring to is not only in
use in Europe and the US, but also in use on our higher end frieght locos
like the WAG 7, 8 and 9. The last 2 being with ABB trcation motors!
Regenerative braking is as you said correctly recirculating power supply
(in the case of electric locos) back to the catenary instead of releasing
it as heat. It is like a simple cycle....draw in power from overhead
supply while acelerating and while braking release the power back into the
overhead supply, which takes power away from the traction motors/wheels,
thus slowing the train down. I do not know the technical details but this
is in laymans terms how it works!
Regards,
Bharat Vohra

From: Larry Russell <lrussell@direct.email

Subject: IR YDM4's

Date: 19 Apr 1998 06:44:00 -0500


Hi, does anyone have sightings of the YDM4 class on other than WR? I need
to fill in some blank shed assignments. I can supply the WR assignment list
for YDM4's if anyone is interrested.
Larry

From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@phy.email

Subject: Re: brakes

Date: 20 Apr 1998 08:31:00 -0500


Sank,

On Sun, 19 Apr 1998 sank@telco.email wrote:

> > As we know, the powerpack turns an alternator which generates the
> > required power for the (DC) traction motors. When power to the motors is
> > cut off,( ie when slowing down) the wheels continue to turn the motors.
> > Well, you now have a generator that starts sending power out. This power
> > is dissipated in a resistor array up in front of the loco(the short nose
> > end). Braking thus occurs as a result of loss of KE of the turning wheels
> > as regenerated energy.( lost as heat).
>
> This is correct technically, except that the engine turns a dynamo for
> feeding DC motors. I think some electric locos (at least in
> Europe: I will check details and post later) could feed the generated
> current back into the overhead supply instead of dissipating it as heat
> energy. Anyone has more on this ?

Ya, that observation is correct, but I am positive about the alternator
bit. At Ratlam Diesel loco shed, we were shown around a WDM2 by one of the
engineers ( Bharat, remember co-co bogie!! ), who pointed out the drive
shaft leading to the (massive) alternator. I presume they do have an AC
alternator, the output being rectified to DC for the motors. As we know,
AC alternators are less fussy.

About the electric locos feeding power back, well, how exactly would they
do it, I mean technically ?? After all, the DC motors will generate DC
voltage. How is this converted to AC in the feedback?? It certainly
couldn't go through the same plumbing. Any idea ? I am confused now !!

> > BTW, even steam locos had dynamic brakes.
>
> Possibly not electrical regenerative braking !! Do you mean the
> steam cut-off settings possible with Walschaert's valve gear ?

I am not too sure, Anyone out there know !!?? Let me check on this.

Siddhartha.
________________________________________________________________________________

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email

Subject: Regenerative or Dynamic braking

Date: 19 Apr 1998 22:52:00 -0500


First of all, regenerative braking is a supplementary braking
system. The objective is to reduce wear and tear of brake
shoes as well as to reduce chances of developing "flat" tires
(caused when wheel is locked firmly by brake shoes and slides
on rails developing a flat surface).

The dissipation of energy can be achieved in several ways. Old
Trams in Mumbai had a regenerative braking system that connected
the output to magnets that hung just over the rails. This
resulted in dual benefit, i.e. motors used part of KE to
generate power and this power in turn created magnetic braking.
Due to maintenance problems, this system was disconnected in
subsequent years.

Diesel-Electric locos use re-generated energy to heat water in
tank (at least older generation WDM2s)

DC locos on CR, transferred energy back to overhead wires.

To achieve regenerative braking, DC Series motors are reconnected
like DC shunt motors. The field coils are energised by either
auxiliary power source like generator in Diesel electric locos or
in case of electric locos, from the overhead current. (I haven't
travelled in AC loco with regenerative braking so I cannot comment
on them). For DC locos, it is essential that output voltage is
close to voltage on OH wires. This is achieved by circuitry aboard
locos. For Diesel electric, the output voltage did not really
matter.

On CR, WCPx and WCMx had dynamic braking but within a limited scope.
Hence, only Deccan Queen was allowed (at least in 70s-80s) to
descend Khandala Ghat without adding "banker" or a WCG1 in front.
Over the period of time, WCG1s were replaced by a pair of WDM2s
and then by a pair of WCG2s.

Even with dynamic braking on, it is essential to use conventional
brakes to regulate the speed although less frequently. That's why
it is called a supplementary system.


Prakash

Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
DB2 Technical Consultant, Vendor Partnership Program

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: IR YDM4's

Date: 20 Apr 1998 18:14:00 -0500


> Hi, does anyone have sightings of the YDM4 class on other than WR? I need
> to fill in some blank shed assignments. I can supply the WR assignment list
> for YDM4's if anyone is interrested.
> Larry

Further question about YDM4s, actually: I saw the same class in service
at Kuala Lumpur station, Malaysia: the class type on the buffer beam
said........YDM4. Were they exported by DLW ? How come the class name
is the same internationally ??

--
Jayant S : IDStudio : TTIL : ERC : TELCO
Pimpri : Pune : 411 018 : INDIA
tel - 91(212)774261 exn 2534
--

From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email

Subject: Re: IR YDM4's

Date: 20 Apr 1998 07:31:00 -0500


Larry,
would be interested in the WR YDM4 assignments......have spotted YDM4's
working on SCR, NFR, NER and NR, but no shed assignments known!
Regards,
Bharat Vohra

On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Larry Russell wrote:

> Hi, does anyone have sightings of the YDM4 class on other than WR? I need
> to fill in some blank shed assignments. I can supply the WR assignment list
> for YDM4's if anyone is interrested.
> Larry
>
>
>

From: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email

Subject: Fw: Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Society (Australia)

Date: 20 Apr 1998 11:23:00 -0500


The following link may be of interest to all those interested in preserving
the remaining meter guage locomotives: <A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh</A>
Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Society (Australia).

It sets forth some concrete steps towards lobbying for the preservation of
the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway. The situation regarding the meter guage
locomotives is perhaps a little bit different, but there is an obvious
recognition that steam is a significant tourist attraction. For example:
The Gujarat State Tourism site <A HREF="http://www.gujarattourism.com/tro.html">http://www.gujarattourism.com/tro.html</A>
Or even the New Official Western Railway site
<A HREF="http://www.westernrailwayindia.com/frames.htm">http://www.westernrailwayindia.com/frames.htm</A> which has several pictures of
steam locomotives.

While surfing make sure you also see the Indian Railways Model Railway
Photo's <A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh/modlpics.htm">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh/modlpics.htm</A>

I have of course added these links to my website
<A HREF="http://trainweb.com/indiarail">http://trainweb.com/indiarail</A> .

Regards,
Steve Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Society (Australia)
<kjw_meh-darjeeling@powerup.email
To: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email
Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Society (Australia)


>Dear Steven Brown,
> Thanks for your response. I'm updating my own home page today and will
>add the link to yours. I agree that preservation efforts could and should
be
>mutually reinforcing; Australian experience is that they often generate
>more total interest once people see what is possible. There is also a huge
>reservoir of interest and support to be tapped in India, but where do we
>start? Perhaps home pages will help.
> Best wishes and thanks
> Ken
>Walker
>
>----------
>>
>> I would be glad to add a link to your DHR page, also to the model railway
>> pictures which are spectacular! I would appreciate the reverse link.
>>
>> The purpose of my page is to promote communication and networking amongst
>> all interested in Indian Railways. The efforts related to DHR could serve
>as
>> a model to those interested in saving the meter guage locomotives. This
>has
>> been a hot topic recently with the possibility of many of the last YP YG
>> locomotives going on the auction block.
>>
>> Hope that I can assist you more
>> Regards,
>> Steve Brown
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Society (Australia)
>> <kjw_meh-darjeeling@powerup.email
>> To: Indian Railways Home Page <able@ricochet.email
>> Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 11:34 PM
>> Subject: Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Society (Australia)
>>
>>
>> >To: Contorller/director, IRHP
>> >
>> > We are trying to form a Darjeeling Himalayan
>> >Railway Society in Australia (there is already one in England) to
support
>> >the work of the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Heritage Foundation in
>> >Dajeeling. This is an urgent and worthwhile cause, as tI'm sure you're
>> >aware.
>> > I have two pages on my new web page devoted to the DHRS(A), one
being
>> >all pictures. I'm wondering if you can add a link; the net address is:
>> ><A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh</A>. If you would like me to, I'll be
>happy
>> >to add a link to
>> >your page in return. I think it's importna that all sites with Indian
>> >railway relevance be linked.
>> > With best wishes
>> > K.J. Walker
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@phy.email

Subject: Re: IR YDM4's

Date: 21 Apr 1998 21:22:00 -0500


YDM4's were also exported to Bangladesh.

On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 sank@telco.email wrote:

> > Hi, does anyone have sightings of the YDM4 class on other than WR? I need
> > to fill in some blank shed assignments. I can supply the WR assignment list
> > for YDM4's if anyone is interrested.
> > Larry
>
> Further question about YDM4s, actually: I saw the same class in service
> at Kuala Lumpur station, Malaysia: the class type on the buffer beam
> said........YDM4. Were they exported by DLW ? How come the class name
> is the same internationally ??
>
> --
> Jayant S : IDStudio : TTIL : ERC : TELCO
> Pimpri : Pune : 411 018 : INDIA
> tel - 91(212)774261 exn 2534
> --
>

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email

Subject: GE Caps for changes in Railways' wagon scheme

Date: 21 Apr 1998 10:12:00 -0500


GE Caps for changes in Railways' wagon scheme

GE Capital Services, a major player in the railway leasing business
in the US, is prepared to consider wagon leasing in India if the
Railways take steps to remove some of the limitations in the own-
your-wagon scheme. The company has listed five limitations of the
scheme currently offered by the Indian Railways, including the fact
that lease rentals are fixed and not linked to the bank prime
lending rate. GE Caps seeks that rentals be linked to the SBI's
PLR. (BS Apr 21 , New Delhi )

(From India World)


Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
DB2 Technical Consultant, Vendor Partnership Program

From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: IR YDM4's

Date: 22 Apr 1998 07:41:00 -0500


Hello Larry,
The ubiquitous YDM/4s are to be found all over India (and sometimes even
abroad,notably in Bangladesh and Malaysia), so its not unusual to find them
outside the WR, which is only part of their territory.
Hence, I have spotted several in Southern India, but do not have any specific
shed allocations.(except golden Rock/Trichy).
Some of the TOWNS which usually home YDM/4s are Villupuram (SR),Golden Rock
(Tiruchhirapalli (SR)), Kacheguda (Hyderabad:SC)), Guntakal (SR), Bangalore
City (now regauged to bg), Ahmedabad (now largely regauged to bg),etc.
In addition, most of North Eastern India is served by mg and hence the YDM/4s.
Popular places were Guwahati, Mungong Selek,Dimapur, Jorhat etc.
Other YDM/4 haunts were Purna (SCR), Bareily (Izzatnagar:NE)),Castle Rock
(Goa:SC)),(near Vasco de gama), Londa (SCR), Miraj, Hubli, etc.
TO CUT A LONG STORY SHORT,YDM/4 S CAN USUALLY BE FOUND IN THE FOLLOWING AREAS:
Assam, N.E. States, most of gujarat and rajasthan, Maharashtra at Miraj,Manmad
(now regauged to bg), Goa, Andhra Pradesh esp. Kacheguda-Kurnool belt,Trichy
and almost the whole of interior Tamil Nadu, Parts of Uttar Pradesh: near
Varanasi,
Bareilly etc., Haryana (Hissar etc).
Most of the improtant mg routes have now been regauged to bg.
Do send your shed list or details of what exactly you have in mind, and lets
see what we can come up with.

Best regards.
Shankar.

At 09:44 AM 4/19/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi, does anyone have sightings of the YDM4 class on other than WR? I need
>to fill in some blank shed assignments. I can supply the WR assignment list
>for YDM4's if anyone is interrested.
>Larry
>
>
>
>

From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email

Subject: News

Date: 22 Apr 1998 08:07:00 -0500


Rlys to shunt IRFC fund route; may dip into VDIS
Sunil Raman [The Times of India]
-----------
NEW DELHI 21 APRIL
THE UNION railway minister, Mr Nitish Kumar, seeks
to reduce dependence on the Indian Railway Finance
Corporation (IRFC) for funds. He, instead, plans to
ask the finance ministry to increase budgetary
allocation by pulling out Rs 2,000 crore (1 crore =
10 million) from the VDIS collections. Sources said
the BJP-led government was veering around the view
that the IRFC route to raise money for railway
infrastructure had proved ``too costly''. Moreover,
it failed to raise required funds from the capital
markets last year though the railways ended up with
a measely 8.3 per cent return.

With the Railway budget expected to be presented
around May 29, the ministry expected a higher
budgetary support considering the fact that it ran
into losses because of cross subsidy provided to
passengers. A view was also gaining ground that
people should be prepared for a hike in passenger
tariff as the finance ministry was unable to
allocate greater funds.

A public debate in this direction would be
initiated with the railway minister presenting a
`status paper' before the Budget. Sources said,
some tinkering with passenger tariff might take
place but the idea behind a `white paper' was to
prepare the public for a reduction in cross subsidy
to passengers. Mr Kumar seems to be inspired by the
Andhra Pradesh chief minister, Mr Chandrababu
Naidu, who issued white papers on tricky subjects
like water and power tariff and prepared the people
before going in for a hike.

Till such a time, Mr Kumar would like the finance
ministry to enhance budgetary support and that too,
by dipping into the VDIS kitty. Former prime
minister Deve Gowda had also suggested this to the
minister in a letter where he said the idea behind
the Voluntary Disclosure of Income Scheme was to
compensate the Railways for unviable services
provided in economically backward areas, besides
north-east and Jammu & Kashmir.

With the Railways providing a public service on
scarce funds, VDIS money could provide an answer
for several cash strapped projects, they argue.
Market borrowings had proved to be ``unaffordable''
and a ``costly'' affair. Raising money through the
IRFC route meant an interest rate upwards of 16 per
cent but with just 8.9 per cent returns. Sources
said the minister felt that the Railways ``could
not be expected to take on the burden forever''.

Lacking the freedom to run Railways commercially,
the minister was faced with a piquant situation as
his predecessor Ram Vilas Paswan had gone around
laying foundation stones and announced new trains
knowing fully well that there was no money.


17 Railway Recruitment Board members sacked
Our New Delhi Bureau [The Times of India]
-----------
NEW DELHI 21 APRIL
THE RAILWAY minister, Mr Nitish Kumar, has shown
the door to all non-official members of the 17
Railway Recruitment Boards (RRBs) with immediate
effect. These boards will be reconstituted with
high-ranking railway officials heading them. Other
members, too, will be from the railways. Addressing
newsmen here, the minister also announced the
setting up of Railways Recruitment Control Board to
be headed by member (staff).

The proposed board consisting of officials from
vigilance branch, will act as a watch dog agency to
supervise the operations of the RRBs. This will
also act as grievance cell for the redressal of
complaints relating to examination and interview
assessments

Mr Nitish Kumar said that the old recruitment
procedures had no provision for appointing
non-officials on these boards. However in the last
one decade, the respective railway ministers have
found this as a forum to oblige political hangers
on This had also resulted in the worst form of
corruption.

He said that similar procedures will be adopted for
the recruitment for Railway Protection Force. The
Railways recruit roughly 8,000 class III and IV
employees every year. In recent years, these boards
had virtually become dens of corruption with
auctioning of the posts, he said.

From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: IR YDM4's

Date: 23 Apr 1998 08:47:00 -0500


Hello Larry,
In a country as vast as India, getting info on the allocation of 5 engines is a
mean task, leave alone 519! Somehow, this info seems to be unknown even among
Railway circles.
At any rate, if it will be of some use, I list below the numbers of some of the
engines I have photographed, with mention of the shed to which the engine was
attached, wherever noted:

Engine # Spotted at Shed (if available)

6286 Madras Egmore (SR) Golden Rock (Tiruchirapalli)
6364 Madurai (SR) --"--
6314 BangaloreCity (SR) Not noted:I think Guntakal
6517 Kumbakonam (SR) Golden Rock (Tiruchirapalli)
6310 Villupuram (SR) --"--

In addtion, I have seen PHOTOGRAPHS of the following YDM/4s in my books:
6268 New Delhi (NR) Guest from WR (Ahmedabad)
6132 Londa (SC) Guest from Golden Rock (SR)
6474 Jaipur (WR) Guest from NR
6207 Bareilly (NR) n/a

I addition, I have videoed a couple of YDM/4s from Golden Rock at Kumbakonam: I
shall post on their numbers whenever I hook my cam to my telly.

Hope to have been of some help.
Best regards
Shankar.



At 08:08 PM 4/21/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>Hello Larry,
>>The ubiquitous YDM/4s are to be found all over India (and sometimes even
>>abroad,notably in Bangladesh and Malaysia), so its not unusual to find them
>>outside the WR, which is only part of their territory.
>>Hence, I have spotted several in Southern India, but do not have any specific
>>shed allocations.(except golden Rock/Trichy).
>>Some of the TOWNS which usually home YDM/4s are Villupuram (SR),Golden
>
>Here is what I have for WR:
>6033, 6035, 6048, 6109, 6134, 6135, 6145, 6146, 6164, 6171, 6182, 6183,
>6184, 9193-6198, 6201, 6208, 6212, 6213, 6220, 6230, 6237, 6239, 6244,
>6245, 6247, 6254-6265, 6267-6273, 6276, 6278, 6280, 6284, 6285, 6288,
>6300-6302, 6305, 6306, 6313, 6315, 6316, 6318, 6326, 6332, 6338, 6348,
>6353, 6355, 6356, 6360, 6371-6373, 6397, 6400, 6402, 6404, 6415, 6416,
>6426, 6427, 6429, 6431-6433, 6447, 6467, 6470, 6472, 6492, 6496, 6523,
>6537-6539, 6541, 6544, 6547-6550, 6554, 6555, 6559, 6560, 6562, 6570, 6574,
>6576-6578, 6587, 6605, 6607, 6608, 6610, 6613, 6621-6624, 6627, 6638, 6646,
>6649, 6651, 6651, 6652, 6667, 6671, 6693, 6707, 6709, 6710, 6716, 6717,
>6719, 6720, 6726, 6727, 6734-6738, 6740, 6747, 6748, 6750.
>
>NER: 6362, 6449, 6479
>SCR: 6160
>SER: 6155
>SR: 6044
>
>any other sightings would be most welcome. (There are at least a total of
>676 of which I need 519. ) The WDM2's are another story and will tackle
>them later.
>Larry
>
>
>
>

From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email

Subject: Western Railway

Date: 23 Apr 1998 09:24:00 -0500


I was scanning through the Western Railway website, and for a maiden
effort, I found it quite impressive. Can be improved of course, but a
really good start! Some one had raised the question about the color
coding on the map - and my guess is that it refers to the divisions -
Mumbai (red), Vadodara (green) etc. They were probably limited by
number of colors (I am not sure why) and so the same color is used
multiple times, but not for adjacent divisions.

I also found the story on the Royal Orient Express to be fascinating.
This train is new to me - I think it's more famous cousin - Palace on
Wheels has overshadowed it! Since when has the Royal Orient been in
existence? It must be unique in the world in covering historical
landmarks, a desert, a wild-life sanctuary, temples, and the sea all in
one trip! Its route is very interesting too - it is not clear where it
starts from, but it goes to Chittorgarh, Udaipur, Junagadh, SasanGir,
Diu, Ahmadavad, Ajmer & Jaipur. From the route I am pretty certain it
is an MG train - check out its smart blue dress as it crosses a bridge
against a lush-green background. One advantage of these luxury trains
is that they are indeed keeping MG steam alive in India - because at
least the party-line is that this train is hauled by a pair of steam
engines. I hope it hangs around for a while!

Finally, a comment re: the Trivandrum Rajdhani and WR. I don't know
what bozo dreamed up the timings of this train, but it seems to be
extremely disruptive to existing WR trains. It overtakes Golden Temple
Mail (Up) and Jaipur & Avantika (Dn - as Vijay pointed out). Plus it
either overtakes Vadodara Exp in Up - or Vadodara Exp has been
re-scheduled. That is FOUR superfast trains disrupted. Plus it must
overtake others such as Sau. Janata, Sau Mail, Avadh Exp and others - in
one or the other direction! Granted that a Rajdhani-like train will
cause some disruption, but it can be minimized! I would think a much
more sensible set of timings would be to have it run between the Mumbai
Rajdhani and the AK Raj. They are separated by 45mins-1hr, so one can
squeeze in another Rajdhani in between. That way it would still arrive
at its main destinations (Navi Mumbai, Goa, Mangalore, Cochin) at decent
hours... Comments?

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbalasub@mail.email

Subject: Re: Western Railway

Date: 23 Apr 1998 15:10:00 -0500


> From: apte@spdc.email
> To: irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Western Railway

> I was scanning through the Western Railway website, and for a maiden
> effort, I found it quite impressive. Can be improved of course, but a
> really good start! Some one had raised the question about the color

It's certainly got some nice photos. One of the photos shows the
twin-WDM2 headed Rajdhani Exp. crossing the Vasai creek. IMHO,
it is actually the August Kranti Rajdhani Exp. which has acquired an
end-on generator car from the Shatabdi rake (the white-n-blue coach).
IR has started playing around with Rajdhani/Shatabdis rakes as well.
During my last trip to India, I traveled on the Aug. Kranti Exp. with
an unmatched, Shatabdi generator car at one end. I also spotted the
Bangalore Rajdhani with a similar mismatch. Why can't they maintain a
uniform
livery, atleast, for these trains?

I also noticed that the BG Palace-on-Wheels in now hauled by two WDMs,
another addition to the list of twin-WDM2 hauled passenger trains. When
was steam withdrawn from POW? I always thought that steam traction was
an essential ingredient of such a service.


>
> Finally, a comment re: the Trivandrum Rajdhani and WR. I don't know
> what bozo dreamed up the timings of this train, but it seems to be
> extremely disruptive to existing WR trains. It overtakes Golden Temple
> Mail (Up) and Jaipur & Avantika (Dn - as Vijay pointed out). Plus it
> either overtakes Vadodara Exp in Up - or Vadodara Exp has been
> re-scheduled. That is FOUR superfast trains disrupted. Plus it must
> overtake others such as Sau. Janata, Sau Mail, Avadh Exp and others - in
> one or the other direction! Granted that a Rajdhani-like train will
> cause some disruption, but it can be minimized! I would think a much
> more sensible set of timings would be to have it run between the Mumbai
> Rajdhani and the AK Raj. They are separated by 45mins-1hr, so one can
> squeeze in another Rajdhani in between. That way it would still arrive
> at its main destinations (Navi Mumbai, Goa, Mangalore, Cochin) at decent
> hours... Comments?

I agree that the Trivandrum Raj. is a highly disruptive train. I am
hoping that
if would be speeded up by atleast 2 hours in the Konkan Rly. section (so
that
a Mumbai-Goa Shatabdi can be started). Accordingly, the schedule may be
adjusted so that the Trivandrum-bound Raj. arrives at Vasai just after the
Jaipur
Exp. (around 7.00 am) and the Delhi-bound train arrives at Vasai just
before the
Jaipur Exp. (around 7.45 pm). This would eliminate overtakes of any
superfast
train and minimizes other overtakes.

Vijay

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbalasub@mail.email

Subject: Last batch of images

Date: 23 Apr 1998 15:22:00 -0500


Hi Folks,

Check out my last batch of images at
<A HREF="http://www.xula.edu/~vbalasub/train5.html">http://www.xula.edu/~vbalasub/train5.html</A>

I have also updated my set of IR links at
<A HREF="http://www.xula.ed/~vbalasub/">http://www.xula.ed/~vbalasub/</A>

Was looking at the BHEL page: <A HREF="http://www.bhelis.com/tnsp01.htm">http://www.bhelis.com/tnsp01.htm</A>.
They have photos of two diesel-electric locos.: 1400 hp and
2600 hp. Could anyone shed more light on these? What are their
classifications? This page also has a 5000 hp. AC elec loco. with
thyristor control. Isn't this the WCAM2?

Vijay

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: Re: Western Railway

Date: 24 Apr 1998 19:48:00 -0500


On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Pushkar Apte wrote:

> I was scanning through the Western Railway website, and for a maiden
> effort, I found it quite impressive. Can be improved of course, but a
> really good start! Some one had raised the question about the color
> coding on the map - and my guess is that it refers to the divisions -
> Mumbai (red), Vadodara (green) etc. They were probably limited by
> number of colors (I am not sure why) and so the same color is used
> multiple times, but not for adjacent divisions.
>
> I also found the story on the Royal Orient Express to be fascinating.
> This train is new to me - I think it's more famous cousin - Palace on
> Wheels has overshadowed it! Since when has the Royal Orient been in
> existence? It must be unique in the world in covering historical
> landmarks, a desert, a wild-life sanctuary, temples, and the sea all in
> one trip! Its route is very interesting too - it is not clear where it
> starts from, but it goes to Chittorgarh, Udaipur, Junagadh, SasanGir,
> Diu, Ahmadavad, Ajmer & Jaipur. From the route I am pretty certain it
> is an MG train - check out its smart blue dress as it crosses a bridge
> against a lush-green background. One advantage of these luxury trains
> is that they are indeed keeping MG steam alive in India - because at
> least the party-line is that this train is hauled by a pair of steam
> engines. I hope it hangs around for a while!
>
> Finally, a comment re: the Trivandrum Rajdhani and WR. I don't know
> what bozo dreamed up the timings of this train, but it seems to be
> extremely disruptive to existing WR trains. It overtakes Golden Temple
> Mail (Up) and Jaipur & Avantika (Dn - as Vijay pointed out). Plus it
> either overtakes Vadodara Exp in Up - or Vadodara Exp has been
> re-scheduled. That is FOUR superfast trains disrupted. Plus it must
> overtake others such as Sau. Janata, Sau Mail, Avadh Exp and others - in
> one or the other direction! Granted that a Rajdhani-like train will
> cause some disruption, but it can be minimized! I would think a much
> more sensible set of timings would be to have it run between the Mumbai
> Rajdhani and the AK Raj. They are separated by 45mins-1hr, so one can
> squeeze in another Rajdhani in between. That way it would still arrive
> at its main destinations (Navi Mumbai, Goa, Mangalore, Cochin) at decent
> hours... Comments?
>
> Regards,
> Pushkar
> -------
>
>

P.P.SAKLATWALLA
4226/4232/4237

Pushkar,
Sahebji! I entirely agree with you that the Trivandrum Rajdhani, apart
from disrupting 2904 up Frontier Mail and as you mentioned 2928 up BRC
express and other 2 superfasts, someone like me if I want to travel to Goa
by this Rajdhani then I have to take the last local from Churchgate at
1:00 am and then spend the time overnight at Vasai to catch the train at
4.00 am , otherwise there is no way I can travel to Goa. But if the train
departs in between 2951 and 2954 then it should reach Vasai at around 7.30
am then it is perfect since you can catch the early morning fast local to
Vasai or go to Panvel ( going to Vasai is a much better proposition then
Panvel as there is no Bharosa travelling by Central Rly)
Also Pushkar please let me know whether Royal Orient is still steam hauled
and since when has its colour changed to blue? I have seen the train in
offwhite colour with a WDM hauling it ( I have seen it on T.V.)

One more request to my friends on the mailing list that if you can please
download the WR webbsite and mail the info ( not photographs as I cannot
view it on the micro) only I am pretty interested in having the info.


Thanks,
Poras:-)

From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email

Subject: Re: Western Railway

Date: 23 Apr 1998 23:09:00 -0500


Hi all,
Regarding the Royal Orient :
The Royal Orient was started as a joint effort between the Gujarat govt
and WR sometime in 1994-95! THe rake runnning the service has abit of
history to it....it was the replcement rake for ageing Palace on Wheels
rolling stock and ran the POW service from 1992 to about 1994, which is
when the BG rake replaced and took over the Palace On Wheels Operations!
This new ICF, Perambur built rake was rendered useless till such time that
WR and Gujarat tourism decided to run it as the Royal Orient!! The livery
was changed to the Blue you now see in the photo! The Royal Orient
originates from Delhi Cantt, MG station and traverses a fair part of
Rajasthan and Gujarat! I am not sure if it is still steam haule even
between Delhi and Rewari as the POW used to be, as there is no steam shed
left in that area!
The original POW MG rake meanwhile is now at the NRM, New Delhi awaiting
to be converted into a hotel by one of the many bidders!!
The old rakes coaches date back to 1917 and so on, with Burma Teak
interiors and what have you!
The replacment POW MG rake, whic now runs the Royal Orient service is
fully airconditined and well furnished but lacks the charm of the original
Rolling Stock!
I have had the pleasure of seeing all three rakes...the MG origional,
replacement and the BG one! All are maintained at the WR workshops at
Ajmer!
Regards,
Bharat Vohra

From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email

Subject: Re: Western Railway

Date: 24 Apr 1998 08:33:00 -0500


Hi all!
I am in agreement of the mismatch of Rajdhani/Shatabdi and how bad it
looks on the rakes!! WR unfortunately has been carrying on this practice
for to long, which is quite sad and spoils the looks of the rakes.
I dont see any problem in maintaining a consistency of livery throughout,
especially when the rolling stock is enough.
WR for instance, as far as Ive seen has about 7 Shatabdi power cars and
only I Shatabdi trainset, so why does it almost always have to have at
least one Rajdhani liveried Power car??
Same case for the 2 Rajdhanis run by WR....at least 12 power cars in their
holding, but invariably you can spot either one or both on the rake as a
Shatabdi unit!! Something should be down about it!!
Regards, Bharat Vohra

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbalasub@mail.email

Subject: Re: Trivandrum Rajdhani

Date: 24 Apr 1998 15:17:00 -0500


I am confident that the present schedule is temporary and is going to
change once the train
gets speeded up between Kankanadi and Panvel - hopefully, this would happen
in the next
6-12 months. I am expecting a speed-up of atleast two hours (1 1/2 hrs
between Madgaon and Panvel), so that the Shatbadi from Mumbai could be
introduced. Assuming that the Trivandrum
end remains fixed, the Vasai times are bound to change:

- the Trivandrum-bound Raj. would arrive at Vasai around 6.00 am just after
the Avantika Exp.
and, so would overtake the Saurashta Mail and Jaipur superfast Exp. I
checked the 1995
suburban time-table and noticed that there is 4.15 slow local from
Churchgate that arrives at
Vasai at 5.42 am, and there is a 5.05 fast local from Dadar that reaches
Vasai at 5.58 am. -
this sounds ok for Mumbai folks. Of course, they could always catch the
train at Panvel around
7.00 am. The train would leave Nizamuddin probably around 1.40 pm. If
they shift this schedule by one more hour, it could be made to arrive
at Vasai around 7.00 am just after the Jaipur Exp.

- In the other direction, the train would arrive at Vasai around 7.00 pm -
an hour before the
Jaipur Exp,, and proceed to overtake the Flying Ranee and the Kutch exp.
between Vasai and
Vadodara. However, these overtakes can be eliminated if the train
reaches Vasai around 7.40 pm.


When is the railway budget for the coming year being presented?
Considering the fact that our
rly. minister is from Bihar and the minister for state is from
Maharahstra, the following trains
could see the light of day:
- Howrah - Patna Shatabdi Exp. (Asansol, Jha Jha?) - a 7 hr. run.
- Mumbai - Patna superfast exp.
- Mumbai - Aurangabad Shatabdi exp. (connecting Mumbai with Nasik and
Aurangabad)
- Mumbai - Howrah Rajdhani-type exp. via Allahabad. Pushkar and I have
had recent discussions
on this one. Such a train could cover the 2100+ km. distance in less
than 30 hrs. under
present track conditions, since it would employ the high-speed
Allahabad-Howrah section.
This would reduce the Mumbai-Howrah travel time by nearly 3 1/2 hours
(the Gitanjali takes
about 33 1/2 hours), and also connect Mumbai and Howrah with major
cities such as
Jabalpur, Allahabad, Varanasi (via Mughal Sarai). Halts at Gaya and
Dhanbad would keep
the Bihar dwellers happy. IMHO, a Rajdhani-type train between Mumbai
and Howrah should
be given priority over any new Rajdhanis from Delhi.

Any comments?


Regards,
Vijay

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@fpk.email

Subject: Re: Trivandrum Rajdhani

Date: 24 Apr 1998 18:07:00 -0500


Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
> - Mumbai - Howrah Rajdhani-type exp. via Allahabad. Pushkar and I have
> had recent discussions
> on this one. Such a train could cover the 2100+ km. distance in less
> than 30 hrs. under
> present track conditions, since it would employ the high-speed
> Allahabad-Howrah section.
> This would reduce the Mumbai-Howrah travel time by nearly 3 1/2 hours
> (the Gitanjali takes
> about 33 1/2 hours), and also connect Mumbai and Howrah with major
> cities such as
> Jabalpur, Allahabad, Varanasi (via Mughal Sarai). Halts at Gaya and
> Dhanbad would keep
> the Bihar dwellers happy. IMHO, a Rajdhani-type train between Mumbai
> and Howrah should
> be given priority over any new Rajdhanis from Delhi.
>
> Any comments?

I have wondered for a while if there is a suitable BG connection from
Bharatpur or Bayana or thereabouts to Agra and thence to Tundla that
would be suitable for running a Rajdhani on the route Mumbai - Bayana -
Agra - Tundla - MGS - Grand Chord - Howrah. If this is possible, can
this train potentially take shorter time than the via Allahabad thing?
Afterall this route maximizes running on high speed tracks, although the
distance is a bit longer. Just a random thought.....

In France there are all sorts of TGVs like say from Bourdeaux to Lyon
that takes the roundabout route via Paris to stay on LGVs as much as
possible and yet takes much less time than a normal train over a more
direct route.

Jishnu.
--
Jishnu Mukerji

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