IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 2141 - 2160

From: steven brown <able@ricochet.email

Subject: Fw: Steam Locos Preservation (continued)

Date: 27 Jan 1998 07:07:00 -0500

>To continue this thread:
>Regarding the idea of private effort to preserve steam locomotives: Here in
>the US and also in Britain it seems
>that most efforts started with the simple idea of saving certain types or
>classes of locomotives, often the equipment was stored on private propery
>for years before a permanent location could be found. In some cases it may
>have taken as much as 20 years to find a permanent home and usable
>trackage. The railways administration's attitude about steam locomotives
>operation on main line track has also been variable. Some railways
>initially took a very negative attitude, claiming that steam locomotives
>might break down and delay other trains. Other railways were always
>supportive of steam locomotive preservation efforts such as Union Pacific ,
>Southern and Norfolk and Pacific. In Britain there was a flipflop on the
>issue initailally the answer was "no steam on the main lines" but now steam
>can be seen running into and out of London. If you don't get the answer
you
>want then
>you haven't asked the question often enough!!! As for IR, it's a
>hypothetical issue at this point, but there is no reason to assume that it
>would be a problem. In some ways perhaps the better option is seperate
>museum line,
>perhaps parallel to a new broad guage line, that could operate as self
>supporting tourist attraction. Here in the US most self supporting
>operations use small locomotives, often on narrow guage. Large locomotives
>only see active duty on special occasions.
>
> India is fortunate to have it's 2 government operated railway museums,
this
>is more than most countries have. We should support and encourage the
>existing effort, but at the same time if our efforts can save a locomotive
>then I for one would be willing to donate $200(us) towards saving a
>locomotive in danger. I would estimate/guess that the meter guage
>locomotives would sell for as little as $2000 or $3000 ! Does anyone have
an
>accurate idea? I am assuming that steel might be worth about $100/ton.
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
>Steven Brown
>Indian Railways Homepage httfp://www.trainweb.com/indiarail
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@phy.email
>To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
>Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 12:41 AM
>Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos
>
>
>>
>>Hallo Everybody,
>>
>>This is with reference to Shankar's mail.
>>
>>>> 1. You forget, my friend, India is as yet a DEVELOPING nation. There
>>>> are n number of railfans in India, in fact, quite a few people
>>>> regularly send "letters to the editor" in all leading
>>>> newspapers,lamenting tragedies like hasty disposal of steam, railways
>>>> in general etc.
>>
>>Our being a developing nation has nothing to do with it. More like the
>>mindset that too many of us seem to have. We have a
>>number of enthusiasts in every field spending large sums of money on their
>>interests. What probably keeps (potential) steam loco enthusiasts from
>>following working on restoring and running these steamers are land
>>restrictions. To run even a short (say 10 - 30 km) line requires
>>procurement of a large amount of land. What we require is a little
>>innovation on the part of the railways. They could offer an incentive in
>>providing some stretches of (maybe now unused ) rail track for running
>>restored locos. Facilities will already exist. It makes absolutely no
>>sense bringing a steam loco to working order and then putting it in a
>>museum. A working loco belongs on the tracks.
>>
>>There was a line about procuring coal. There's no shortage of that either.
>>And remember, we are not putting all the steam back on the tracks, just a
>>handful of working locos.
>>
>>>> Last but not the least,info about rolling stock is very limited in
>>>> India. Believe it or not,much of what I know about of India's railways
>>>> is info gathered from FOREIGN BOOKS With that base,you start nosing
>>>> around.
>>
>>Well, kudos to those guys who take the trouble to find out about our
>>railways and write about them. No one here seems to have made the effort.
>>So like it or not, FOREIGN BOOKS are the main source of our info.
>>About private operators running these routes, I certainly hope they do !!
>>That will be a better beginning than any.
>>
>>>> 3. Maybe YP (meter gauge passenger) locomotives are still around, a
>>>> handful of them,as you say.The question is about the WP (broad gauge)
>>>> engines,most of which were takenoff the rails ages ago.I really hope
>>>> and pray that at least one is found somewhere,by miracle!
>>
>>YP's are still very much around. Running Ratlam, Indore, Mhow and the
>>Rajkot-Verawal lines.
>>
>> Siddhartha.
>>__________________________________________________________________________
_
>____
>>
>>
>
>

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: Re: ARRIVAL OF NEW BHEL LOCO'S AT BAMY !

Date: 29 Jan 1998 02:26:00 -0500

I am told that new BHEL locomotives of the WCAM series K has arrived at
the Bandra Marshalling Yard in Mumbai. I was told that these locos are
doing trial runs in the night between BAMY AND SURAT, and whatever
modifications are required are carried out at the yard. These locos will
then be attached to the MUMBAI/NEW DELHI RAJDHANI EXPRESS AND the
Ahmedabad Shatabdi Express. Infact the IR is planning a new Rajdhani
between Mumbai and the Capital, which will start its journey at 9.00 p.m.
from Mumbai and reach NDLS the next morning at 9.00 am. Does anyone have
any Idea about this train which is to start on 15th AUG AND also of these
locos ? If yes please write. More info on these locos after I get some
more news.

Does anyone have any info on the WAP 5/6 3 phase AC ABB locos used on the
Calcutta Rajdhani ? Also are these WAP 5/6 SEEN ANYWHERE ON THE WR
BCT-NDLS ROUTE OR THE CST- NDLS/HWH/VARANASI ROUTES. If yes please let me
know as in the near future I am visiting Delhi. How are the WAP 1'S
performing ? Waiting to hear from you all soon.

Regards to you all

PORAS P. SAKLATWALLA.
TEL NO. 577 3535/577 3636
EXTN. 4226/4232/4237.
E-MAIL. pps@godrejnet.email

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: darjeel.html (fwd)

Date: 29 Jan 1998 04:30:00 -0500

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From: "poras p.saklatwalla" <pps@godrejnet.email
To: pps@godrejnet.email
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:17:35 +0530
Subject: darjeel.html

The Darjeeling Himalayan Railway

based on a visit 19-29 January 1997

with minor revisions 11 February 1997

[INLINE]

Train 9D leaving Kurseong

The Future

The line loses money so every year the Indian Railway accountants
consider closing it. Local politicians especially the Darjeeling
Gorkha Hill Council have so far managed to keep it open. However, a
growing road lobby would like it closed so the road to Darjeeling
could be improved and widened. Even if the line stays open throughout,
diesels are being talked about as the B class steam engines need total
renewal. Tindharia Works does the best it can to keep them going but
no new boilers, cylinders or frames are available. It is in this
context that The Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Heritage Foundation has
been set up to restore, renew and preserve the DHR and its railway
stations as a living museum for the enjoyment of the people of India
and the world. The Indian end of this organisation is based at The
Windamere Hotel, Darjeeling. The UK end is Mr. Benedict Cadbury who is
secretary of the Friends of the DHR (UK) and with moral support coming
from the Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch, Ravenglass and Eskdale, Welshpool
& Llanfair, and Festiniog railways. For more details, contact Evelyn
Shah, The Windamere Hotel, Darjeeling.

Weather

[INLINE]

Train 9D in the snow

Our trip coincided with the largest snowfall for 10 years on the upper
stretches of the line from Sonada to Darjeeling. Unfortunately, the
snow was followed by days of mist. During this time, the section from
New Jalpaiguri to the waterstop at Gayabari (below Kurseong) had
noticeably better weather including bright or hazy sunshine.

Locomotive allocations

No. Builder(1) Date(1) Notes
777 SS 3517 1889 preserved Delhi Railway Museum (1)
778 SS 3518 1889 preserved USA (1)
779 SS 3882 1892 working, Darjeeling (2) Himalayan Bird
780 SS 3883 1892 oou, Darjeeling Green Hills
781 SS 4560 1899 transferred Coal India, Tipong, Assam (3)
782 SS 4561 1899 working, Tindharia Mountaineer
783 SS 4562 1899 frame only, Tindharia Works
784 SS 4977 1903 to Coal India (3)
785 SS 4978 1903 condemned, New Jalpaiguri
786 NB 16212 1904 working, New Jalpaiguri
787 NB 20143 1913 repair, Tindharia Works
788 NB 20144 1913 working, Kurseong, boiler 1928 (4)
789 NB 20638 1914 Coal India (3)
790 NB 20639 1914 in pieces, condemned, Tindharia Works
791 NB 20640 1914 in steam, New Jalpaiguri
792 BLW 44912 1917 working, New Jalpaiguri (failed 22/1/97)
793 BLW 44913 1917 not seen (6)
794 BLW 44914 1917 oou, Kurseong
795 DHR 1919 oou, New Jalpaiguri (5)
796 DHR 1923 Coal India (3)
797 DHR 1925 condemned/kept (7), Tindharia Works
798 NB 23291 1925 derelict, Tindharia Works
799 NB 23292 1925 not seen (6)
800 NB 23293 1925 condemned/kept (7), Tindharia Works
801 NB 23301 1927 not seen (6)
802 NB 23678 1927 oou, Tindharia, boiler 1944 (4)
803 NB 23304 1925 derelict, Tindharia Works
804 NB 23302 1925 working, Tindharia, Meghdoot, boiler 1928
805 NB 23300 1925 working, Tindharia
806 NB 23303 1925 repair, Tindharia Works

Notes

1. information from Exotic Indian Mountain Railways, R.R. Bhandari,
Indian Railways Publication, 1984
2. place name in notes refers to home depot; Darjeeling, Kurseong,
Tindharia or New Jalpaiguri
3. information from Eastern Exiles India by Ron Cox, pp144-7, Narrow
Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review, Issue 28, October
1996
4. all locos have new Indian Railways boiler plates showing year of
origin of boiler and the dates of the last 5 services, most/all
locos do not carry their original boilers
5. in addition to this loco, another loco (separate frames and
boiler) under repair at Tindharia was painted up as 795. The loco
in Tindharia must be one of the missing loco 793, 799, 801
6. in addition to the mystery loco at Tindhari Works (5), one set of
frames and a separate boiler are in the loco shed at Tindharia and
one long abandoned set of frames plus wagon on frames are in the
disused transhipment sidings north of Siliguri Junction Station.
Does this account for all the current fleet?
7. two locos kept in as complete a condition as possible for
preservation, sale as historic relics

[INLINE]

Train 9D at Ghum

Trains

The railway tries to operate three return working a day. The Kurseong
- Darjeeling - Kurseong school train 9D/10D ran daily. The train
regularly left Kurseong around one hour late at 7:30 and returned on
time 15:45. The New Jalpaiguri - Darjeeling - New Jailpaiguri through
train 1D/2D did not run for 4 consecutive days during our visit but
then resumed daily operation. The first cancellation (22/1) was caused
when 792 dropped a fuseable plug on the first reversal and was
eventually rescued by 805 from Tindharia. Both up and down trains were
terminated at Tindharia that day. Why no trains ran for the next 3
days is unknown as spare locos exist to run the service and spare
stock is at New Jalpaiguri. Departure times from station of origin
were usually on time but the up train often took longer than the
booked time and would arrive Darjeeling closer to 19:00 (instead of
17:30). We did not go looking for the New Jalpaiguri - Siliguri
Junction - New Jalpaiguri early morning train 5D/6D but this is
assumed to run as New Jalpaiguri has more locos in steam (3) than it
otherwise requires. The other service; 3D/4D is not usually run.

[INLINE]

Train 1D at the second loop

Hotels

We stayed at The Windamere in Darjeeling. See The Future above for
information about the involvement of the hotel in efforts to preserve
the line. The Windamere is fine if you like the old British touch
although be prepared to pay US$120 for a double with compulsory full
board. However, Darjeeling is not necessarily the best place to base
yourself, both Kurseong and Siliguri being better for chasing trains.
The Tourist Lodge in Kurseong was not tried but was generally
recommended and is the best base for the early morning school train
from Kurseong followed by a drive down to Tindharia for the afternoon
up through train. Sinclairs Hotel in Siliguri now has competition from
a newer Tourist Lodge. Sinclairs was OK but the Tourist Lodge should
be checked out. This base was good for chasing the up through train
from New Jalpaiguri to Tindharia and beyond.

[INLINE]

Train 1D departing Kurseong

Drivers

This is a plug for our driver Gyatsu Bhutia, a careful, considerate
Tibetan. He drove well and nothing was ever too much trouble. He is
Darjeeling based but was happy to stay in Siliguri for a few days.
Contact him at:

Khaling Niwas
18A, Holmdene
Lower Harmentage
Darjeeling W.B.
India 734101

He can be contacted by phone on 52321. This phone belongs to the owner
of the house where he has a flat/apartment.

[INLINE]

Train 1D on the flat below Sukna
_________________________________________________________________

I welcome your comments and queries. Send them to John Raby.
_________________________________________________________________

Return to my home page for other links or go to Rob Dickinson's
International Steam pages.
_________________________________________________________________

Oh, and next time you buy tea ask for Super Fine Second Flush Tippy
Orange Pekoe. Drink nothing but the best!
_________________________________________________________________

This page was written by John Raby and published by John Raby on his
web site at gol.com with photos by the author. Please respect the
moral copyright of the one who brought this page to you. There is no
objection to you saving and printing out a copy of this page. However,
please do not re-publish this page on your web site nor publish it in
any other printed or electronic form without the express written
permission of the publisher John Raby. If you do, this causes me
unnecessary stress and makes me consider all sorts of dire
retribution! If you find this page interesting, please add a link from
your web site to this page.

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: myanmar97.htm (fwd)

Date: 29 Jan 1998 04:31:00 -0500

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From: "poras p.saklatwalla" <pps@godrejnet.email
To: pps@godrejnet.email
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:40:37 +0530
Subject: myanmar97.htm

Steam in Myanmar

(January / February 1997)

Index

1. Bago
+ Bago steam allocation
+ Bago - Nyungkashe Branch
+ Bago stone trains
2. Pyuntaza
+ Pyuntaza steam allocation
+ Pyuntaza - Madauk Branch
3. Toungoo
+ Toungoo steam allocation
+ Steam trains
4. Pyinmana
+ Pyinmana steam allocation
+ Suggarcain trains
5. Meiktila Traffik School
6. Thazi
7. Mandalay - Lashio (Northern Shan Line)
+ Mandalay Dieselshed
+ Pyin Oo Lwin
+ Northern Shan Line Passenger service
+ Lashio
8. Burma Mines Railway (Nam Tu Mine Railway)
_________________________________________________________________

Bago

Bago steam allocation (7.2.1997)

Class Number Shed HR.ISN NR.ISN Comments
YB 529 Bago 11.94 Nyaungkhashe branchline
YC 624 Bago 12.7.94
YC 626 Bago 12.96
YC 627 Bago 2.94
YC 630 Bago 10.94
YD 961 MPLN
YD 962 MPLN
YD 967 Bago 5.96
YD 969 Bago 1.96
YD 972 PTZ

(HR.ISN = Heavy Repair Insein works; NR = Normal Repair Insein works)

Bago stone trains:

Because of an oil shortage there have been no steam hauled stone
trains since Jan.26.1997. Oil is expected from Yangon everyday. This
situation hasn't changed till Feb.2.

Stone loading points are situated at Taungzun (109,25 miles from
Yangon),Yinnyein (146,5 miles from Yangon) und Zingyaik (154,5 miles
from Yangon).

Nyaungkashe Branch:

Normaly the Naungkashe Mixed is leaving Bago at 10:30. To departe 30
minutes later is quite common.

At Feb.8. YB 529 was on duty on the branchline. One day later all
traffik was expected to be cancelled, because then the very last
gallon of oil went through the burner of the loco.

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Pyuntaza

Pyuntaza steam allocation (Board at the Office of Locoforeman Mr.
Ukyaw Myint, date 14.11.1996)

- YB 532 for 167 / 168 to Madauk

- YC 623 for 161 / 162 to Madauk

- YD 972 on loan to Bago

- D 1062 "Museum" (MAWD 2-8-2)

- MCA 1

- MDCC 105

- LRBE 44 / 3 / 25 / 59

Time table Pyuntaza - Madauk

Station steam railcar steam railcar Station railcar steam railcar
steam
Pyuntaza 05:30 11:30 14:00 17:30 Madauk 07:10 08:40 13:20 18:20
Nyaunglebin 05:46

05:48 ?? 14:16

14:31 ?? Nyaunglebin ?? 09:53

10:09 ?? 17:59

18:04
Madauk 07:00 13:00 15:45 19:00 Pyuntaza 09:30 10:25 15:00 16:45

Even this time table gives only one idea of the estimated departure
and arrival times of the trains. Delays are quite common. Normaly one
loco runs both daily trips on the branch line. During our visit we saw
YC 623 (Jan.27. to29) and YB 532 (Feb.6.) working the mixed to Madauk.

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Toungoo

Steam trains have been cancelled since Jan.26.1997 because of an oil
shortage and oil from Yangon was expected to reach Toungoo every
(next) day. This situation didn't change at least till Feb.6.1997. YD
973 and 974 are (still ?) waiting for oil and suggar.

According to an order dated on Jan.28. from Yangon Headquarter every
visitor has to pay 2 FEC entrence fee for the shed - even there is no
steam activity. This fee is worth for a couple of visits.

Toungoo steam allocation

Class Number Shed HR.ISN NR.ISN Comment
YD 973
YD 974 Bago 1.96
M 364 Museum
ST 761 plinted

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Pyinmana

Pyinmana steam allocation

Class Number Shed HR.ISN NR.ISN Comment
YB 534 Pyinmana
YB 536 PTZ 3.96
YC 629 Pyinmana 9.95
YD 964 Pyinmana 9.96 Boiler from India
ST 764 plinted

Wheels and frames in the bushes

MAWD 1044 HR:ISN. 4.76

MAWD 1028

YD 975

Suggarcain trains

Here they have enaugh oil to run steamtrains as requested from the
suggarfactory. Suggarcain loadingpoints are at Thawatti (South),
Kantha (West) and Kyidaunggan (North).

On Jan.30. only YB 534 was in steam to shunt in shed area and to take
a loaded train with suggarcain from Kantha to Pyinmana. It left
Pyinmana smokebox first together with a caboose around 1320 and was
back with the loaded train arround 1730.

Feb.6. saw YB 534, YC 629 and YD 964 in steam. YD 964 was in use to
provide steam for the other two locos, which allows to heat them up
quickly. The foreman expected to run trains on all three lines.

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Meiktila Traffik School

The Meiktila Traffik School is the home of two steamlocos. This
engines are used for teaching purpose. You can find them easily quite
opposite the school in an open hall. Acces is not possible because of
a fence. If you want to touch the buffers you can ask at the gate ...

Class Number Shed HR.ISN NR.ISN Comment
ST 765 ITGO 6.85
D 1019 PTZ USTC 847

According to the boilerplate D 1019 (or at least the boiler) was build
1944 by Devenport Boiler Corp. under number 2706 10 - 1944.

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Thazi

At Thazi we found the following locos ore at least fragments of them:

Class Number Shed HR.ISN NR.ISN Comments
GC 833 plinted
S 1 plinted
GC 834 1972 without boiler
GC 839 1973 without boiler
ST 769 1978 ? assigned for

HR. ISN 1997 ??
ST 774 assigned for

HR. ISN 1997 ??
ST 777 wheels only
YB 508 wheels only

ST 769 and 774 are assigned for Heavy Revision at Insein works in
future this was confirmend at Insein works afterwards but without any
information at what time and for which purpose.

Moreover there is one steamcrane (Hurst, Nelson & Co.I.F 1945) in the
shed.

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Mandalay

On shed we saw the following engines at Feb.1.1997:

Class Number Shed HR.YUG NR.ISN Comment
DD 510 Kawasaki 1978
DD 945 Krupp Nr.

5451 / 1978
DD 954 7.95 Krupp Nr.

5460 / 1987
DD 960 Krupp
DD 966 10.92 Krupp Nr.

5607 / 1987
DF 2017 Dalian 1993
DF 2021 Dalian 1993
DF 2027 Dalian 1993

There is 0-6-0 plinted next to the shed entrence

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Pyin Oo Lwin (Maymyo)

At Feb.1. we saw DD 505 (Hitachi 1965) and DF 2024 (Dalian 1996).
Sheldon & Co. steamcrane (No. 5373 / 1933) is serviceable for accident
relive trains.

Passenger service on the Northern Shan Line:

Sation 131up 133up 137up Station 132dn 134dn 138dn
Mandalay 04:45 14:20 Lashio 05:30 06:30
Pyin Oo

Lwin 08:03

08:34 18:00

05:30 Pyin Oo

Lwin 15:40

16:00

05:00 18:30

Lashio 19:00 18:00 Mandalay 19:55 09:45

Back to Index.

Lashio

Diesel DF 2007 On Feb.3. DF 2007 (Alsthom) was buisy with a down
fright train. This train even served the connection with the Burma
Mine Railway at Namyao. The picture shows this train serving the line
to Namyao MG yard.

There is a serviceable steamcrane (Cowans Sheldon No. 4885 / 1929)
based at Lashio shed.

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

Burma Mines Railway (Nam Tu Mine Railway)

DF 2007 at Namyao Namyao, the first stop from Lashio is the connection
between MR and the Mine Railway to Nam Tu and Bawdwin. It is reached
by MG over a photogenic rivergridge (right picture) which is arround
500 m down from the mainline to Lashio. There are loading facilitys
for oil, ore and coale from MG to NG and vice versa.

Since 1978 all line service is diesel. There should be one train from
Nam Tu to Namyao and back Monday - Friday only. Trains are escorted by
armed security personal because Nam Tu district is still an
insurgents area. Nam Tu district is still off limits for tourists and
there was no chance to get a permission to go to Nam Tu - even not for
guided tours. The only possibility would be to be an official from a
mining company planing a joint venture at Nam Tu Mines ..... It makes
no sense to try the road to Nam Tu because there are several check
points. May be it is possible to use the fright train up to Nam Tu -
we didn't try it. To make things more delicious the NG yard belongs to
Nam Tu area so normaly even this is not open for foreigners but it was
no problem to enter this place during our visit. Bagnall No.42 at
Namyao As motivation to visit Namyao there is Bagnal 2-6-2 T No. 42
(Bagnall 2338 / 1928) in use for the daily shunting work. The loco is
steamed as requiered during morning hours (09:00) and in working
condition at the arrival time (14:00) of the diesel fright from Nam
Tu. At Feb.3. No. 42 was doing some shunting movements untill it
fails because of some boiler problems (Left picture). The DIEMA diesel
(DC 307, looking quite clean and modern) arriving with the goods
arround 14:00 has to be used for shunting. It is uncertain wether No.
42 will be steamed up again because it has to be towed up to Nam Tu by
diesel for repair.

We were told that there is a second steam loco in use for shunting at
Nam Tu. It is presumed to be 0-4-2 T No.13 (Kerr Stuart No 2383 /
1914) - but no gricer has been there to check it.

Back to Index.
_________________________________________________________________

I would be glad to receive any other informations about the Namtu Mine
Railway.

Please mail to:

Manfred Schöler

Hans Sachs Str.11

91451 Rothenburg / Germany
_________________________________________________________________

Back to International Working Steam Locomotives 1997

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: rajdhani.html (fwd)

Date: 29 Jan 1998 04:31:00 -0500

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From: "poras p.saklatwalla" <pps@godrejnet.email
To: pps@godrejnet.email
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:50:21 +0530
Subject: rajdhani.html

INDIAN RAILWAYS TRAIN SCHEDULE INFORMATION
______________________________________________________________________

Rajdhani Express

The Rajdhani Express connects India's capital city (New Delhi) to
several other major centres with a fast and reliable service. Rajdhani
Express trains are all fully air-conditioned, with breakfast,
afternoon tea, and light meals included with the fare. It is perhaps
the fastest and most reliable train service in India, second only to
the Shatabdi Express services. For those fussy about the "quality" of
the train, Rajdhani is mainly utilised by business people and
higher-income Indians.

NB: Day1 refers to Monday, 2 refers to Tuesday, 3 to Wednesday, 4 to
Thursday, 5 to Friday, 6 to Saturday, and 7 to Sunday ) Where a city
name is followed by a bracket, eg. New Delhi (Hazrat), interpret as
"New Delhi Hazrat Station"."Hazrat" is Hazrat Nizamuddin statio in
Delhi.

TRAIN NAME/NO.

DEPARTING FROM

DESTINATION

DEPARTS

ARRIVES DAYS
2301 CALCUTTA (Howrah) NEW DELHI 1630 0940 12356
2302 NEW DELHI CALCUTTA (Howrah) 1715 1050 13467
2305 CALCUTTA (Howrah) NEW DELHI 1345 1000 47
2306 NEW DELHI CALCUTTA (Howrah) 1715 1250 25
2421 BHUBANEWSHWAR NEW DELHI 0850 1800 7
2422 NEW DELHI BHUBANESHWAR 1700 1830 5
2423 GUWAHATI NEW DELHI 0600 1000 3
2424 NEW DELHI GUWAHATI 1700 2030 1
2425 NEW DELHI (Hazrat) JAMMU TAWI 2000 0545 3
2426 JAMMU TAWI NEW DELHI (Hazrat) 2030 0535 4
2429 BANGALORE NEW DELHI (Hazrat) 0645 1630 1
2430 NEW DELHI (Hazrat) BANGALORE 0930 2000 6
2431 TRIVANDRUM NEW DELHI (Hazrat) 2000 1630 5
2432 NEW DELHI (Hazrat) TRIVANDRUM 0930 0625 2
2951 BOMBAY CENTRAL NEW DELHI 1655 0955 234567
2952 NEW DELHI BOMBAY CENTRAL 1605 0835 134567 This site is maintained
by Vivek Prakash for the benifit of travellers and fans of Indian
railways. If any information here is incorrect or if you wish to
contact me, please email vp@ihug.email

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <SDUTTAG@bsu.email

Subject: Calcutta-Guwahati Saraighat express

Date: 28 Jan 1998 04:25:00 -0500

Can any kind soul with access to the latest timetable give me the stats
on Howrah-Guwahati Saraighat express. It is supposed to be a halfway
decent train (the only one) on that line.

I would like the both-way dep/arrv at Bolpur, Malda, New Jalpaiguri,
New Cooch Behar, and Guwahati.

regards, siddhartha

PS I checked the timetable page on the net and it gives only dep/arrv.
from HWH.

From: Vijay.Balasubramanian <Vijay.Balasubramanian@xula.email

Subject: Re: ARRIVAL OF NEW BHEL LOCO'S AT BAMY !

Date: 28 Jan 1998 11:15:00 -0500

> I am told that new BHEL locomotives of the WCAM series K has arrived
at
> the Bandra Marshalling Yard in Mumbai. I was told that these locos are
> doing trial runs in the night between BAMY AND SURAT, and whatever
> modifications are required are carried out at the yard. These locos
will
> then be attached to the MUMBAI/NEW DELHI RAJDHANI EXPRESS AND the
> Ahmedabad Shatabdi Express. Infact the IR is planning a new Rajdhani
> between Mumbai and the Capital, which will start its journey at 9.00
p.m.
> from Mumbai and reach NDLS the next morning at 9.00 am. Does anyone

Are you sure about the times? This means a run-time of just 12 hours
(for 1384 kms.) - a commercial speed of 115 kmph.!!!!! Seems too big
a jump from the 16 1/2 hrs. by the present Rajdhani. A departure time
of 6.00 pm seems closer to reality. Have they upgraded any stretch
in the Mumbai Central-Vadodara-Godhra and Raltam-N.Delhi to 140 kmph.?
If so, then 15 hrs. seems possible.

The possibility of a new Mumbai-Delhi Rajdhani is very exciting. There
were rumours about the introduction of no-commercial-halts Rajdhanis
between Delhi and Mumbai/Calcutta sometime back. Maybe, it is coming
true!!!! Assuming this is the case, will the present Rajdhani also be
speeded-up? Or will the new Rajdhani do the job?

I am very curious about this new loco as well.

Vijay

From: Vijay.Balasubramanian <Vijay.Balasubramanian@xula.email

Subject: From poras p.saklatwalla

Date: 28 Jan 1998 11:34:00 -0500

> Coming to the WCAM 3 which is used on majority of the trains on CR, it
is
> slightly larger in size than the ones used on WR (WCAM 2P) BUT I
wonder
> the very Idea of introduction of these locos on the Bombay - Igatpuri
-
> Bhusawal section. As far as I Was made to believe that these locos
would
> not have to change to give way to WAM 4 on the Igatpuri -Bhusawal
> section, which I am doubtful whether they have tried running it or the
> locos have failed to deliver the goods.

I had touched upon this subject in an earlier message. Running a
WCAM3 from Mumbai CST to Bhusaval would simply shift over the loco.
changeover point from Igatpuri to Bhusaval (which is, of course,
a bigger station). But trains would still have to halt at Igatpuri
in both the dirns. (Dn. - for detachment of banker locos., Up - for
brake testing). So, there might not be any appreciable decrease in the
net times.

>
> On a recent trip from Bombay to Calcutta by Gitanjali Express, I was
told
> by the person who removes the loco from Bom and attaches another one,
that
> WCAM3 HAS FAILED MISERABLY ON THE Igatpuri-Manmad- Bhusawal line.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you have more specific information? Did it fail because of faulty
equipment? Or something else?

> On the CR the 1005 DN VIDHARBA EXPRESS FOR NAGPUR has been given a new
> look with a green and blue livelry n a grey and white dash in the
middle.
> Occassionaly I see the train with an ugly maroon coloured bogie in
between
> spoiling the whole show. Normally this train is headed by a WCAM 3.

That's nice!!! IR seems to re-introducing distintive liveries.
Besides the Rajdhanis/Shatabdis, I am aware of the following trains
having distinctive liveries:
- Deccan Queen/Pragati/Taj - cream-blue with red strip
- Chennai-Tirupati Sapthagiri Exp. - green-yellow
- Karnavati Exp. - same as Shatabdi
- the maroon-cream combination randomly appears on South bound trains
such as AP, Tamilnadu, Mangala, etc.
- Poorva Exp. - same as Rajdhani
- Mumbai-Goa Exp. - blue-with-white-stripes (according to Pushkar)
Any other liveries out there?

> WCAM 2P/ 3 TO HAUL IT. Infact if need be a double headed Shatabdi
would
> look great on the Ghats and then onto Lonavla and Kamshet and Pune.

Can a single WDM2, helped by banker locos., haul a 7-9 coach train up
the Ghats?

Regards,
Vijay

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: Calcutta-Guwahati Saraighat express (fwd)

Date: 29 Jan 1998 22:03:00 -0500

THE FOLLOWING IS THE DEP/ARR OF HWH /GUWHATI SARIAGHAT EXP NO.3045
BARDDHAMAN : 23.36 ARR
23.36 DEP
MALDA TOWN : 04.50 ARR
05.05 DEP
NJALPAIGURI 09.25 ARR
09.35 DEP
NALIPUR DWAR 12.00 ARR
12.02 DEP
GUWHATI 16.45 ARR

RETURN :GUWHATI/HOWRAH
GUWHATI : 17.15 DEP
NALIPUR
DWAR : 21.33 ARR
21.35 DEP
NJALPAI : 00.35 ARR
00.45 DEP
MALDA : 05.00 ARR
05.15 DEP
BARDDHAMN 10.27 ARR
10.30 DEP
HOWRAH 12.25 ARR

PLEASE NOTE : HOWRAH DEP IS 22.00 HRS
--------------------------------------

From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email

Subject: WCAM-3 Questions

Date: 29 Jan 1998 09:15:00 -0500

I am curious too about the differentiating characteristics of the WCAM-3

- What is the highest speed it can reach?
- What is the longest passenger rake it haul?
- Does it have advanced micro-processor control like the WAP-5/6?
- Is it compatible with Air-braking?
- Is it indiginous or ABB?

Cognoscenti, please post! Thanks!

-Pushkar

Vijay.Balasubramanian@xula.email wrote:

> > Coming to the WCAM 3 which is used on majority of the trains on CR, it
> is
> > slightly larger in size than the ones used on WR (WCAM 2P) BUT I
> wonder
> > the very Idea of introduction of these locos on the Bombay - Igatpuri
> -
> > Bhusawal section. As far as I Was made to believe that these locos
> would
> > not have to change to give way to WAM 4 on the Igatpuri -Bhusawal
> > section, which I am doubtful whether they have tried running it or the
> > locos have failed to deliver the goods.
>
> I had touched upon this subject in an earlier message. Running a
> WCAM3 from Mumbai CST to Bhusaval would simply shift over the loco.
> changeover point from Igatpuri to Bhusaval (which is, of course,
> a bigger station). But trains would still have to halt at Igatpuri
> in both the dirns. (Dn. - for detachment of banker locos., Up - for
> brake testing). So, there might not be any appreciable decrease in the
> net times.
>
> >
> > On a recent trip from Bombay to Calcutta by Gitanjali Express, I was
> told
> > by the person who removes the loco from Bom and attaches another one,
> that
> > WCAM3 HAS FAILED MISERABLY ON THE Igatpuri-Manmad- Bhusawal line.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Do you have more specific information? Did it fail because of faulty
> equipment? Or something else?
>
> > On the CR the 1005 DN VIDHARBA EXPRESS FOR NAGPUR has been given a new
> > look with a green and blue livelry n a grey and white dash in the
> middle.
> > Occassionaly I see the train with an ugly maroon coloured bogie in
> between
> > spoiling the whole show. Normally this train is headed by a WCAM 3.
>
> That's nice!!! IR seems to re-introducing distintive liveries.
> Besides the Rajdhanis/Shatabdis, I am aware of the following trains
> having distinctive liveries:
> - Deccan Queen/Pragati/Taj - cream-blue with red strip
> - Chennai-Tirupati Sapthagiri Exp. - green-yellow
> - Karnavati Exp. - same as Shatabdi
> - the maroon-cream combination randomly appears on South bound trains
> such as AP, Tamilnadu, Mangala, etc.
> - Poorva Exp. - same as Rajdhani
> - Mumbai-Goa Exp. - blue-with-white-stripes (according to Pushkar)
> Any other liveries out there?
>
> > WCAM 2P/ 3 TO HAUL IT. Infact if need be a double headed Shatabdi
> would
> > look great on the Ghats and then onto Lonavla and Kamshet and Pune.
>
> Can a single WDM2, helped by banker locos., haul a 7-9 coach train up
> the Ghats?
>
> Regards,
> Vijay

--

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email

Subject: WCAM-3 Questions

Date: 29 Jan 1998 09:15:00 -0500

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: [Fwd: RE : ARRIVAL OF NEW BHEL LOCO'S AT BAMY !

Date: 30 Jan 1998 22:07:00 -0500

--
Jayant S*ID Studio*TTIL*TELCO
Pimpri*Pune 411 018*INDIA*tel:91-212-774261 exn 2534
Email me at "sank@telco.email. Do NOT use your "reply" button !

From: BHARAT VOHRA <bharat@giasbma.email

Subject: Re: WCAM-3 Questions

Date: 30 Jan 1998 09:50:00 -0500

Pushkar,
It has been tested at 140-150kmh oscillation trials. On service it
probably touches 115-120 on CR's tracks at max!
It can comfartably haul a 21 coach rake or a 70 8-wheeler fright load!
It does not have advanced micro processor control
It is definetely air brake compatible.
Regards,
Bharta Vohra

On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Pushkar Apte wrote:

> I am curious too about the differentiating characteristics of the WCAM-3
>
> - What is the highest speed it can reach?
> - What is the longest passenger rake it haul?
> - Does it have advanced micro-processor control like the WAP-5/6?
> - Is it compatible with Air-braking?
> - Is it indiginous or ABB?
>
> Cognoscenti, please post! Thanks!
>
> -Pushkar
>
> Vijay.Balasubramanian@xula.email wrote:
>
> > > Coming to the WCAM 3 which is used on majority of the trains on CR, it
> > is
> > > slightly larger in size than the ones used on WR (WCAM 2P) BUT I
> > wonder
> > > the very Idea of introduction of these locos on the Bombay - Igatpuri
> > -
> > > Bhusawal section. As far as I Was made to believe that these locos
> > would
> > > not have to change to give way to WAM 4 on the Igatpuri -Bhusawal
> > > section, which I am doubtful whether they have tried running it or the
> > > locos have failed to deliver the goods.
> >
> > I had touched upon this subject in an earlier message. Running a
> > WCAM3 from Mumbai CST to Bhusaval would simply shift over the loco.
> > changeover point from Igatpuri to Bhusaval (which is, of course,
> > a bigger station). But trains would still have to halt at Igatpuri
> > in both the dirns. (Dn. - for detachment of banker locos., Up - for
> > brake testing). So, there might not be any appreciable decrease in the
> > net times.
> >
> > >
> > > On a recent trip from Bombay to Calcutta by Gitanjali Express, I was
> > told
> > > by the person who removes the loco from Bom and attaches another one,
> > that
> > > WCAM3 HAS FAILED MISERABLY ON THE Igatpuri-Manmad- Bhusawal line.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Do you have more specific information? Did it fail because of faulty
> > equipment? Or something else?
> >
> > > On the CR the 1005 DN VIDHARBA EXPRESS FOR NAGPUR has been given a new
> > > look with a green and blue livelry n a grey and white dash in the
> > middle.
> > > Occassionaly I see the train with an ugly maroon coloured bogie in
> > between
> > > spoiling the whole show. Normally this train is headed by a WCAM 3.
> >
> > That's nice!!! IR seems to re-introducing distintive liveries.
> > Besides the Rajdhanis/Shatabdis, I am aware of the following trains
> > having distinctive liveries:
> > - Deccan Queen/Pragati/Taj - cream-blue with red strip
> > - Chennai-Tirupati Sapthagiri Exp. - green-yellow
> > - Karnavati Exp. - same as Shatabdi
> > - the maroon-cream combination randomly appears on South bound trains
> > such as AP, Tamilnadu, Mangala, etc.
> > - Poorva Exp. - same as Rajdhani
> > - Mumbai-Goa Exp. - blue-with-white-stripes (according to Pushkar)
> > Any other liveries out there?
> >
> > > WCAM 2P/ 3 TO HAUL IT. Infact if need be a double headed Shatabdi
> > would
> > > look great on the Ghats and then onto Lonavla and Kamshet and Pune.
> >
> > Can a single WDM2, helped by banker locos., haul a 7-9 coach train up
> > the Ghats?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Vijay
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Pushkar
> -------
>
>
>

From: BHARAT VOHRA <bharat@giasbma.email

Subject: Re: WCAM-3 Questions

Date: 30 Jan 1998 09:50:00 -0500

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: MY TRIP TO BHUSAWAL ON 31/01//98

Date: 02 Feb 1998 22:26:00 -0500

This weekend Had to go to Bhusawal for a personal work. I started by
Kurla -howrah Express 8029 DN . The terminus is one disgusting place to
go to. There is no proper approach road nor is there any indication of
any platforms how they are numbered and there is such a lot of chaos at
this terminus. Our train was very very dirty train and the coaches were
numbered in such a way that only railway officials could do such a thing.
The 1st class coach that we were travelling in was 2nd from last and then
followed by S6 and so on.
The train left on time at 9.50 pm and was hauled by a WCM1 AND MOVED very
slow till Kalyan and thereafter moved at good speed. I am told that the
coupe style 1st class coaches have stopped being manufactured, and instead
only AC3 TIER coaches are being mfd. At Igatpuri I went near the loco and
so a WAM 4P OF BHUSAWAL was attached to our train. Thereafter tha
train moved at a constant speed. We reached Jalgaon at 5.45 and there I
saw a Rajdhani type Vatwa WDM 2 attached to AHMEDABAD HOWRAH EXPRESS. It
looked great on a horrible train like the 8033 DN. We finally reached
BHUSAWAL AT 6.10.
ON our return we caught the new look Vidharba Express and boarded the
AC 2 tier, it arrived with a WAM TATANAGAR LOCO AND DEPARTED ON TIME TO
REACH MUMBAI AT 6.05 HOURS today morning. The train had good speed and
stopped at only the major stations. From Igatpuri the WCAM 2P was
attached to our train. Next month I am intending to go to Delhi by
Rajdhani and then to Cal by DEL /CAL RAJDHANI. This will be the most
interesting part of the journey. With more info next time.

From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@phy.email

Subject: WCAM2/3 Details

Date: 02 Feb 1998 23:13:00 -0500

Junta,
As WCAM2/3's are being actively discussed, here is a posting I had
sent in earlier.

1) The WCAM3's are more powerful than the WCAM2's. They are 5000hp as
compared with 3500hp for the 2's.

2) They are designed to handle freight and passenger traffic on the ghat
section and double headed WCAM3 freight rakes have been sighted !!!

3) The body shell seems to be the same. The paint scheme is different.

4) About actual operating speeds, I have no idea ( does anyone out there
know ?? ) . The WCAM2p's however operate on superb tracks and have been
sighted clipping with the Ahd Shatabdi and the Rajdhani/AK.

5) For excellent WCAM3 sightings and regular double-header WDM2 tanker
trains, the Kurla-Vidyavihar section is ideal.

WCAM1's are responsible for a large volume of all WR traffic. WR has about
18 WCAM2p's as opposed to over 40+ (operational at any one time ) WCAM1's.
The WCAM2p's seem to be reserved for the premier WR trains.

So far , WR does not seem to have operated any WCAM3's.

CR has a large no. of WCAM3's on order. They will probably end up with 50+
of these beauties. They have probably proved to be successful on the Ghat
section. They were cleared on oscillation trials for an operational speed
of 115 km/h.

A personal observation is that WR is highly efficient in its
loco-utilization. On many of our sighting trips we have observed a WCAM2p
at BCT waiting patiently to haul a rake out. The same loco had been
sighted the previous evening on the run.

Cheerio
Siddhartha.
*************************************************************************

From: Auroprem Kandaswami <kandaswa@apple.email

Subject: Konkan Railway, a victim of politics

Date: 02 Feb 1998 11:40:00 -0500

Deccan Herald
03 February 1998

ON its maiden journey into Goa on January 26, the Konkan Railway seemed
destined once again to become a victim of political opportunism in this
State. Black flag demonstrations awaited the train making its first
journey over the last 22 km of the line into Goa`s northern borders from
Sawantwadi.

Pitched on the tracks of the first stop in Goa, protestors this time
were insisting that a halt and booking facilites be provided at Pernem
for the Mumbai- Margao Express. Coming as it did just before the
approaching mid-term poll, the demand was quickly picked up by political
camps.

Union Minister for Law and Justice Ramakant Khalap found himself at the
receiving end of a well-conceived attack by the BJP, Shiv Sena and the
Congress which were determined to wring political advantage from the
situation. Mr Khalap had won six Assembly polls in a row from this
constituency. In the 1996 Lok Sabha election too, he got good support
from voters in this area.

As Mr Khalap arrived at Pernem station to receive the Konkan Railway on
the morning of Republic Day, some of his political arch-rivals were
already there to embarrass him. The BJP`s North Goa candidate, Mr
Pandurang Raut, led one group of demonstrators while Congress Minister
of State Sangeeta Parab led another.

Ms Parab claimed that she was participating in the agitation as a
'citizen`. The protestors insisted on Mr Khalap to do his bit to ensure
a halt for the Express at that station.

As the crowd grew more restive, a chappal came flying out at the Union
Minister. He was eventually rescued by a police security cordon. But the
train, already a good three hours late due to an engine failure near
Ratnagiri,was forced to a grinding halt by demonstrators. With four of
its bogeys still stuck in the Khaznem tunnel, the
train`s inaugural run was delayed by another hour and half till Konkan
Railway Corporation (KRC) Managing Director B Rajaram and advisor S V
Salelkar, in consultation with Mr Khalap, conceded to the Pernem halt.

That decision was likely to be reviewed after the election, Mr Khalap
made it known later. But the message seemed clear: as in the past,
India`s most publicised railway line was still open to political
arm-twisting. And for many, like the group of five men who travelled all
the way from Delhi for the Konkan Railway`s maiden 'through` journey,
the experience had proved none too pleasant.

Delayed by over two years chiefly because of the financial constraints
and the geological challenges of the coastal route, the Konkan Railway`s
single track line would soon become inadequate for the booming economy
of the Western coast, Mr Rajaram had pointed out.

The single line is expected to be saturated in five years with the kind
of economic activity in progress in the Konkan. The industries expected
to benefit the most from the new railway line are iron ore in Roha,
steel in Sawantwadi and the refineries in Mangalore. Hitherto unexplored
coastal zones in South Maharashtra and North Kanara would also benefit
from the fall-out of the railway line if developed for tourism.

In Goa`s case, however, it is feared that the Railway may not be able to
accommodate too many visitors. For the moment, however, plans for the
'Palace on wheels` on this route have been shelved for want of takers to
operate it, KRC officials point out. With careful planning, the KRC
could have achieved a double-line route with
a saving of 50 per cent of its present projected cost and enormous
benefits in time. Doubling the line would now involve another survey,
and its cost has been estimated at Rs 2,700 crore, of which Rs 1,000
crore would be required for duplicating the tunnels and bridges. Though
the KRC had already acquired the land necessary for a two-line track,
the crippling fund crunch precluded any such plans, officials say.

The KRC`s soaring debts have placed a sense of great urgency on the
railway`s recovery prospects. The Konkan Railway needs to earn Rs 1.30
crore a day to tackle its debt repayment. It hopes to earn Rs 35 lakh a
day from passenger traffic and another Rs 1 crore a day on freight.
Though the single line permits a maximum of 14 trains to operate in a
day, each way, the KRC plans to break up sections for optimum use.

On the Goa sector, the lack of co-ordination between the State`s
transport authorities and the KRC is apparent in the shortage of link-up
transport between the major railway stations and their closest towns.
The KRC complains it has received no support from the State Government
on this count.

The Goa Government has invested Rs.1 crore in the rail diesel car
between Karwar and Ratnagiri for the benefit of daily commuters.
However, the service is obviously underutilised at this end.

From: poras p.saklatwalla <pps@godrejnet.email

Subject: WAM1/4

Date: 04 Feb 1998 00:32:00 -0500

Could anyone let me know more about these speedsters ! Recently on my
trip to Cal by Gitanjali express I timed the run between Igatpuri and
Bhusawal and again between Badnera and Nagpur when the train was doing
roughly around 110 kmph. The train was late at Badnera by an hour and a
half but we still made it before time to Nagpur by 10 mins. This was on a
Tatanagar WAM 4 LOCO. PLEASE write if you have further details on this
locos.

P.P.SAKLATWALLA

From: dheeraj <dheeraj@iitk.email

Subject: Re: Konkan Rly finally gets on tracks

Date: 06 Feb 1998 22:02:00 -0500

> Can anyone shed light on fare structure of KR?
>
> Prakash

Chargeable distance will be twice the physical distance on KR.

-dheeraj

--------------
Dheeraj Sanghi +91 (512) 59-7077 (Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering +91 (512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology +91 (512) 59-0725 (Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email

From: Sankar <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Resuming transmission

Date: 07 Feb 1998 03:16:00 -0500

Hello fellow rail-freaks,
My profound apologies:I was off the radar for several weeks now on
account of a major system beakdown,primarily on account of improper
and incomplete repairs by an incompetent person.It took this long to
undo the damage and then to reprogram the whole damn thing.
Even now,my user ID is programmed as "Sankar" instead of "Shankar".I
guess I'll just have to learn to live with it,for I'm in no mood to
spend another month all because I tried to rectify a non-lethal error.

I shall catch up with you later.Stay tuned.

I did manage to retreive all your mail though.

Best regards.

Shankar.

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