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From: Auroprem Kandaswami <kandaswa@apple.email

Subject: Konkan Railway ready to roll, at last

Date: 16 Jan 1998 03:57:00 -0500



EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE  
16 January 1998

 

MUMBAI, January 15: The prestigious
Konkan Railway project, launched in
1989 to connect the western coast with
rest of the country, has been completed
with the opening up of the 20 km
Pernem-Sawantwadi section on
Wednesday, Konkan Railway
Corporation announced on Thursday.

The Pernem-Sawantwadi section was
delayed as the railway could not
construct strong tunnel at Pernem on
the soft-sub soil. According to a press
statement the Commissioner of Railway
Safety (South Central circle) G P Garg
has given the go-ahead to operate trains
on the line after a detailed inspection
and a speed trial at 100 kmph
recently.Trains can now be operated at a
maximum speed of 80 kmph and will be
increased to 100 kmph soon.

Following the completion of the tunnel
work, the railway intends extending the
Sawantadi Express up to Madgaon in
South Goa from January 26, 1998. The
train leaving Mumbai CST for
Sawantwadi will go up to Madgaon and
will start on its return journey the same
evening.The railways also plans to
introduce through trains from
destinations like New Delhi, Mumbai,
Ahmedabad to Madgaon, Mangalore,
Cochin and Trivandrum stations within
a month or two.

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: PATIALA STATE MONORAIL

Date: 17 Jan 1998 06:11:00 -0500


Hello Don,
Just got your e-mail about my mini thesis about the Gwalior lines.It just
happened that I had that much info on my personal archives.The Patiala
mono-rail, you will understand, is, as you rightly put it, cradled in obscurity,
tucked away as it is within the confines of the NRM.Only sentimentalists like
us will really take notice.For something as unique as that,wonder why more
people don't gloat over it. I've saved your large photograph (the first one)
as a wallpaper. (I hope its not copyrighted or something!)
That was the reason I didn't respond before.I was so much gaga over the
presentation and photographs that I really didn't think there would be much
I could contribute by way of additional info.

Anyway, this is what I've got:

IN 1907,THE FIRST SECTION OF AN UNUSUAL MONORAIL railway opened,on the "Ewing
system". It connected the towns of Bassi and Sirhind, in the Patiala State.The
distance was 6 miles.(six miles).
Col.Bowles, who designed the system,was appointed State Engineer,and he laid the
Patiala State Monorail Trainways system (PSMT).The total route length was 50
miles (fifty miles), connecting Sirhind to Alampura, and Patiala to Bhavanigarh.
The track consisted of a single rail running along one side of the road.On this
rail rode the train.A larger single wheel at the end of an outrigger ran on the
road to stabilize the train and to keep it upright.
The trains were originally hauled my mules, so as to fruitfully utilize the
over 500 (five hundred) Govt. mules maintained by the State for its army.
M/s Orenstein & Koppel of Berlin, Germany, supplied four unique monorail loco-
motives in 1909, for use on this railway.Details of the engines appear on the
next e-mail.
M/s Marshland Price & Co, who had constructed the lines,also managed and main-
tained them,till the working was taken over by the Patiala State through a
contractor.(I think this means that the State line was run by a contractor).
Unfortunately however,due to maintenance difficulties,nonavailability of spares,
and intense competition from faster and more efficient means of transport,the
going was cough,splutter and hand to mouth.The line finally closed down in
1927,and the unique stock was confined to the scrap heap.
The stock so lay for 35 (thirtyfive) years. In 1962,the locomotives and cars
were discovered half buried in the scrap yard at Patiala and earmarked for
preservation. The Northern Railway Workshops at Amritsar subsequently managed
to restore one engine to full working order in 1976, which is the one at the
NRM.
A BRIEF WORD ABOUT THE car attached to the locomotive in my next e-mail,which
follows immediately after this.
Best regards.
Shankar: shankie@emirates.email OR shankies97@yahoo.email

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: PATIALA STATE MONORAIL--PART II

Date: 17 Jan 1998 06:11:00 -0500


Hello Don,

Here we go again.

A brief word about the car attached to the monorail at the NRM:
The monorail car attached to the engine at the NRM is actually a
reproduction.The body was built by the Northern Railway Workshops
at Amritsar on an original underframe.
The car is a copy of the private inspection coach of Col.Bowles,
who built the lines in 1907.The only difference is that wooden seats
are fitted for passengers. The original had cane chairs.

DETAILS OF THE LOCOMOTIVES ARE AS UNDER:
Builder: Oresntein & Koppel,Berlin,Germany.
Year built: 1907
Service: Patiala State Monorail Trainways.
Wheel arrangement: 0-3-0T (double flanged wheels)
Balancing wheel: One flange-less wheel,39" dia.
Rail gauge: Monorail
Cylinders: Two outside cylinders, 5 1/2" X 14"
Numbering: 4 (this engine's number,that is).

STOP PRESS: Here is some additional (not so heartening) observations I made
when I visited the NRM in November 1997:

The NRM had always been advertising that the monorail works by prior
arrangement,seven days notice is necessary, charges. rupees -- per group
of eight persons etc.
When I visited in November, the monorail was running regularly,offering
rides to anyone interested (It wasn't operational when I visited).
The beauty of the nique specimen had been ruined by the fitment of a headlight
to the engine. Wonder why:the original neverhad one. If at all it was absolutely
necessary, there are so many small, compact ones available.
The one fitted was a crude one, which appeared tohave been built out of a
tin bucket or loudspeaker or something. It looks downright obscene: I've
written to the NRM authorities about it.
I hope I have been of somehelp in updating your monorail homepage.While I have
no additional info, I'll be glad to offer any clarifications towhat I have
said so far.

SOURCE OF INFO: THE above text is based on info gathered from the NRM
guidebooks: 1980 edition and 1997 edition.

With best wishes.
Shankar. shankie@emirates.email OR shankies97@yahoo.email

From: Henry Posner III <hposnerIII@rrdc.email

Subject: WP Steam Locos

Date: 16 Jan 1998 13:12:00 -0500


This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:

We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for the
"Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
existence outside of the museum(s)?

We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these have
proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
confirm any physical sightings.

From: Maryellen Merck <mmerck@rrdc.email

Subject: WP Steam Locos

Date: 16 Jan 1998 13:41:00 -0500


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henry Posner III
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 1998 2:13 PM
> To: 'IRFCA'
> Subject: WP Steam Locos
>
> This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
> repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:
>
> We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
> locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for
> the
> "Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
> anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
> existence outside of the museum(s)?
>
> We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these
> have
> proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
> confirm any physical sightings.

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 17 Jan 1998 08:43:00 -0500


Its highly unlikely anyone will sight a WP on IR track: Steam has been totally
eliminated from the broad gauge on the IR and the last steam hauled broad
gauge train (hauled by a WL engine # 15005) ran between Ferozepore and
Jalandhar in the Punjab on 6th Dec, 1995.That engine is preserved at the
National Rail Museum,Delhi.
The last bastion of steam was on the NR, ER, SER and CR. Its highly unlikely
that withdrawn WPs may be still around, not broken up after all these years.
It sounds downright pathetic, but thats the way it is.
The best place to try for any WP locomotives is with some scrap dealers,who
have been benevolent enough not to break up their WPs so far.
All this sounds tragic, and sceptical,but thats the true picture.The IR has
been taking steamers off the tracks at such a rapid pace that scores of them are
consigned to the rubbish heap every day.Breaking up has to keep pace with the
inflow.
To give an idea, there were 1,725 steamers on the IR in 1992-93.The numbers in
succeding years were 911 in 1993-94, 358 in 1994-95 to 209 in 1995-96.
If you manage to locate one (out of 209 steamers over 62,200 km of track),
you are goddam lucky!Esp. still lying around after two years.
May the departed souls rest in peace.
I pray that at least ONE Wp can be found and respectfully laid to rest.
Best regards. Shankar.


At 02:12 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
>repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:
>
>We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
>locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for the
>"Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
>anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
>existence outside of the museum(s)?
>
>We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these have
>proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
>confirm any physical sightings.
>
>

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 17 Jan 1998 08:43:00 -0500


Its highly unlikely anyone will sight a WP on IR track: Steam has been totally
eliminated from the broad gauge on the IR and the last steam hauled broad
gauge train (hauled by a WL engine # 15005) ran between Ferozepore and
Jalandhar in the Punjab on 6th Dec, 1995.That engine is preserved at the
National Rail Museum,Delhi.
The last bastion of steam was on the NR, ER, SER and CR. Its highly unlikely
that withdrawn WPs may be still around, not broken up after all these years.
It sounds downright pathetic, but thats the way it is.
The best place to try for any WP locomotives is with some scrap dealers,who
have been benevolent enough not to break up their WPs so far.
All this sounds tragic, and sceptical,but thats the true picture.The IR has
been taking steamers off the tracks at such a rapid pace that scores of them are
consigned to the rubbish heap every day.Breaking up has to keep pace with the
inflow.
To give an idea, there were 1,725 steamers on the IR in 1992-93.The numbers in
succeding years were 911 in 1993-94, 358 in 1994-95 to 209 in 1995-96.
If you manage to locate one (out of 209 steamers over 62,200 km of track),
you are goddam lucky!Esp. still lying around after two years.
May the departed souls rest in peace.
I pray that at least ONE Wp can be found and respectfully laid to rest.
Best regards. Shankar.


At 02:12 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
>repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:
>
>We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
>locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for the
>"Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
>anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
>existence outside of the museum(s)?
>
>We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these have
>proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
>confirm any physical sightings.
>
>

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 17 Jan 1998 09:13:00 -0500


Its highly unlikely anyone will sight a WP on IR track: Steam has been totally
eliminated from the broad gauge on the IR and the last steam hauled broad
gauge train (hauled by a WL engine # 15005) ran between Ferozepore and
Jalandhar in the Punjab on 6th Dec, 1995.That engine is preserved at the
National Rail Museum,Delhi.
The last bastion of steam was on the NR, ER, SER and CR. Its highly unlikely
that withdrawn WPs may be still around, not broken up after all these years.
It sounds downright pathetic, but thats the way it is.
The best place to try for any WP locomotives is with some scrap dealers,who
have been benevolent enough not to break up their WPs so far.
All this sounds tragic, and sceptical,but thats the true picture.The IR has
been taking steamers off the tracks at such a rapid pace that scores of them are
consigned to the rubbish heap every day.Breaking up has to keep pace with the
inflow.
To give an idea, there were 1,725 steamers on the IR in 1992-93.The numbers in
succeding years were 911 in 1993-94, 358 in 1994-95 to 209 in 1995-96.
If you manage to locate one (out of 209 steamers over 62,200 km of track),
you are goddam lucky!Esp. still lying around after two years.
May the departed souls rest in peace.
I pray that at least ONE Wp can be found and respectfully laid to rest.
Best regards. Shankar.


At 02:12 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
>repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:
>
>We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
>locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for the
>"Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
>anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
>existence outside of the museum(s)?
>
>We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these have
>proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
>confirm any physical sightings.
>
>

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 18 Jan 1998 00:55:00 -0500


Its highly unlikely anyone will sight a WP on IR track: Steam has been totally
eliminated from the broad gauge on the IR and the last steam hauled broad
gauge train (hauled by a WL engine # 15005) ran between Ferozepore and
Jalandhar in the Punjab on 6th Dec, 1995.That engine is preserved at the
National Rail Museum,Delhi.
The last bastion of steam was on the NR, ER, SER and CR. Its highly unlikely
that withdrawn WPs may be still around, not broken up after all these years.
It sounds downright pathetic, but thats the way it is.
The best place to try for any WP locomotives is with some scrap dealers,who
have been benevolent enough not to break up their WPs so far.
All this sounds tragic, and sceptical,but thats the true picture.The IR has
been taking steamers off the tracks at such a rapid pace that scores of them are
consigned to the rubbish heap every day.Breaking up has to keep pace with the
inflow.
To give an idea, there were 1,725 steamers on the IR in 1992-93.The numbers in
succeding years were 911 in 1993-94, 358 in 1994-95 to 209 in 1995-96.
If you manage to locate one (out of 209 steamers over 62,200 km of track),
you are goddam lucky!Esp. still lying around after two years.
May the departed souls rest in peace.
I pray that at least ONE Wp can be found and respectfully laid to rest.
Best regards. Shankar.


At 02:12 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
>repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:
>
>We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
>locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for the
>"Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
>anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
>existence outside of the museum(s)?
>
>We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these have
>proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
>confirm any physical sightings.
>
>

From: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 17 Jan 1998 03:24:00 -0500


Hi all!
There are a few points I would like to clarify abuot BG steam in India
Firstly, steam on BG could be found all the way till 1996 and better
still unofficial reports suggest that, till this date there are 1 or 2
steamers to be found on ERly near Sahibganj shed!!
Well officially 1996 saw th last of BG steam, on NR and ER and possibly
SER...it wasnt 1995!
Secondly, CR along with SR and SCR was one of the earliest to do away
with BG steam and was definetely not one of the last steam strongholds
of IR. WR did away with it in 1992, CR a year or 2 earlier and SR about
the same time!
NR and ER were defnetely the last to see steam action!
Regards,
Bharat Vohra

>From irfca-request@cs.email Sat Jan 17 04:55:58 1998
>Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu
> by hyena.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
> id HAA14522; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:52:44 -0500 (EST)
>Received: from ns2.emirates.net.ae
> by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
> id HAA01584; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:52:39 -0500 (EST)
>Received: from ns2.emirates.net.ae (csx048.emirates.net.ae
[194.170.165.240]) by ns2.emirates.net.ae (8.8.6/8.6) with SMTP id
QAA09222; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:49:07 -0400 (GMT)
>Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980117125527.0066d080@emirates.email
>X-Sender: shankie@emirates.email
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:55:27 +0400
>To: Henry Posner III <hposnerIII@rrdc.email
>From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email
>Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>
>Its highly unlikely anyone will sight a WP on IR track: Steam has been
totally
>eliminated from the broad gauge on the IR and the last steam hauled
broad
>gauge train (hauled by a WL engine # 15005) ran between Ferozepore and
>Jalandhar in the Punjab on 6th Dec, 1995.That engine is preserved at
the
>National Rail Museum,Delhi.
>The last bastion of steam was on the NR, ER, SER and CR. Its highly
unlikely
>that withdrawn WPs may be still around, not broken up after all these
years.
>It sounds downright pathetic, but thats the way it is.
>The best place to try for any WP locomotives is with some scrap
dealers,who
>have been benevolent enough not to break up their WPs so far.
>All this sounds tragic, and sceptical,but thats the true picture.The IR
has
>been taking steamers off the tracks at such a rapid pace that scores of
them are
>consigned to the rubbish heap every day.Breaking up has to keep pace
with the
>inflow.
>To give an idea, there were 1,725 steamers on the IR in 1992-93.The
numbers in
>succeding years were 911 in 1993-94, 358 in 1994-95 to 209 in 1995-96.
>If you manage to locate one (out of 209 steamers over 62,200 km of
track),
>you are goddam lucky!Esp. still lying around after two years.
>May the departed souls rest in peace.
>I pray that at least ONE Wp can be found and respectfully laid to rest.
>Best regards. Shankar.
>
>
>At 02:12 PM 1/16/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
>>repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:
>>
>>We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
>>locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for
the
>>"Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
>>anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
>>existence outside of the museum(s)?
>>
>>We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these
have
>>proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
>>confirm any physical sightings.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: steven brown <able@ricochet.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 17 Jan 1998 19:52:00 -0500


Greetings
A few thoughts about preserving steam locomotives:

1. We can not depend entirely on government run museums to select and
preserve railway equipment. Here in the U.S. almost all preservation,
museums and operating tourist lines exist as a result of private
organizations efforts. Even the few government museums (California State RR
Museum or Steamtown) probably would not exist without the support of outside
railfan groups. I realize that IRFCA alone may not be able to accomplish
this but I wonder if there are other groups active in India. Royston Ellis's
book India by Rail makes mention of a bi-weekly Rail News related to Indian
Railway Passengers ' Conference Association. Perhaps other readers can
suggest some other clubs groups associations or publications that would be
supportive of an effort to save and operate steam in India.

2.Steam Locomotives were being advertized along with other scrap in the
classifieds of The Economic Times. The last ad has yet to run. The
remaining YP and YG's may be advertized as scrap quite suddenly shortly
after their final runs.

3. The recent ending of steam in Pakistan will mean that a number of
pre-partition broad guage locomotives will need saving from scrap.
Details: <A HREF="http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/pakis3.htm">http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/pakis3.htm</A>
_______________________________________________
Steven Brown
Indian Railways Homepage <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
>

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 20 Jan 1998 05:53:00 -0500


Helo Steven,
Thanx for your interesting e-mail. Just a few observations:
1. You forget, my friend, India is as yet a DEVELOPING nation. There are
n number of railfans in India, in fact, quite a few people regularly send
"letters to the editor" in all leading newspapers,lamenting tragedies like
hasty disposal of steam, railways in general etc.
But no one has the funds to go out to work and restore old locomotives.
Railways are a Government body in India,funds are woefully scarce,add to
that taxes.And hand to mouth existance.
Even if you bought a condemned (how I detest that word!) steamer, where does
one run her? All trackage is Govt. owned, so you have another big investment
proposition on your hands.to build private sidings etc.The moment you even
breathe vaguely about such a proposition, you have tax inspectors breathing
down your neck,most of them out to make a fast buck."If that guy can "waste"
(well,for them it is) that much money on a condemned engine,he mst be loaded!"
Taxation is at times rather dictatorial,in India!
The groups in India are far too heterogenous.Demograhic problems.Co-ordination
for such a venture is almost impossible.
Last but not the least,info about rolling stock is very limited in India.
Believe it or not,much of what I know about of India's railways is info
gathered from FOREIGN BOOKS With that base,you start nosing around.
India is a very security conscious country,and officials go overboard at
times if anyone shows more than a casual interest in stock or sheds!
Even the Govt.run National Rail Museum is at many times lacking in information,
even about their own exhibits!
Most people at many occasions usually have "better things to do!" It calls for
a National Awakening,so to speak.
Restoring the engine,getting coal,maintaining infrastructure:less than
shoestring budgets,Govt.interference,lack of information,all this makes
preservation by private individuals almost out of question.
All is not lost however.Some privatization is on the anvil.When the Palace
on Wheels mg rake was taken off the rails, it was purchased by a private
party.The rake is now within the Rail Museum grounds in India.Its due to be
converted into a luxury hotel. Preserved,but NOT LIVE,MIND YOU!
Some more similar routes are to be thrown open to private individuals/companies
to run tourist trains.
2. The passenger groups you refer too are usually troubleshooting or pressure
groups,meeting to press their demands for additional train services etc.These
are sometimes called Zonal Rail Users co ordination Committee or something.
3. Maybe YP (meter gauge passenger) locomotives are still around, a handful
of them,as you say.The question is about the WP (broad gauge) engines,most of
which were takenoff the rails ages ago.I really hope and pray that at least
one is found somewhere,by miracle!
Best regards to you my friend, have a nice day.
S.Shankar.


At 11:52 PM 1/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Greetings
>A few thoughts about preserving steam locomotives:
>
>1. We can not depend entirely on government run museums to select and
>preserve railway equipment. Here in the U.S. almost all preservation,
>museums and operating tourist lines exist as a result of private
>organizations efforts. Even the few government museums (California State RR
>Museum or Steamtown) probably would not exist without the support of outside
>railfan groups. I realize that IRFCA alone may not be able to accomplish
>this but I wonder if there are other groups active in India. Royston Ellis's
>book India by Rail makes mention of a bi-weekly Rail News related to Indian
>Railway Passengers ' Conference Association. Perhaps other readers can
>suggest some other clubs groups associations or publications that would be
>supportive of an effort to save and operate steam in India.
>
>2.Steam Locomotives were being advertized along with other scrap in the
>classifieds of The Economic Times. The last ad has yet to run. The
>remaining YP and YG's may be advertized as scrap quite suddenly shortly
>after their final runs.
>
>3. The recent ending of steam in Pakistan will mean that a number of
>pre-partition broad guage locomotives will need saving from scrap.
>Details: <A HREF="http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/pakis3.htm">http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/pakis3.htm</A>
>_______________________________________________
>Steven Brown
>Indian Railways Homepage <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
>>
>
>
>

From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email

Subject: Wither Quotas?

Date: 19 Jan 1998 15:02:00 -0500


With increasing computerization of reservations on IR, I am wondering
what the story is with the "quotas" that used to be assigned to each
station on specific trains. In the 1997 WR time-table, for instance,
all the stations which are computerized do not show any quotas against
their name. Does this mean that one can buy a reserved ticket from -
say from Ahamadabad to Surat on Shatabdi Exp. from Pune ? (these
stations being linked to the Mumbai computer system). And is the
seat/berth assignment done dynamically, with no pre-determined quota
between stations? Is there any load optimization in this process?

And one more curious factor is that the time-table still shows "return
journey quotas." In the light of the above, what does this mean?
Shouldn't - say - the entire Vadodara-Mumbai Vadodara Exp be available
for booking at all windows in all cities linked to the Mumbai computer
system? Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks!

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: dheeraj <dheeraj@iitk.email

Subject: Re: Wither Quotas?

Date: 21 Jan 1998 00:46:00 -0500


There are two types of quotas.

One is a quota in a train going from city 'A' to city 'B',
but the person who wants the reservation is in city other
than 'A', say city 'C'. (For return reservation, city 'C'
is same as city 'B'.)

These kind of quotas are removed as soon as the city 'C'
has a computerized reservation counter. So, yes, since Pune
has computerized reservation counters, they can purchase
tickets from Ahmedabad to Surat on Shatabdi.

The second kind of quota is the number of seats allotted to
each intermediate station. As yet, there is no dynamic
allocation of such quotas. The load optimization is only in
long-term. It is possible that if at a particular station,
there is extremely high demand for some train, and this demand
can generate enough political pressure, then the quota of
that station in that train may increase.

There is a complicated method of a small station having small
quota being allowed to reserve a birth out of a quota of
larger station (reservation controlling station) which is upstream.
I don't quite understand the protocol, but it perhaps like this:
First, the small station makes reservations against its quotas.
Other requests are given a waitlisted number, and such requests
are transmitted to the reservation controlling station. The
controlling station looks at these requests at the end of the
day. If there is space available it is fine, otherwise, these
requests are queued up at the controlling station and internally
given another waiting list number. They are basically part of
the common waiting list at the controlling station. Of course,
with computerization, the process need not take place at the
end of the day, but instantaneously.

Another version is that at the controlling station, these requests
will be given waitlist numbers even if space is available in the
train from that station. But then they will be first in the waiting
list. If the space is not filled till the time of printing of chart
then that will be allocated to these requests. If space is filled
in the meanwhile, then all further requests at the controlling
station will get waitlisted numbers After these requests.

Maybe someone from Railways can clarify.


> And one more curious factor is that the time-table still shows "return
> journey quotas." In the light of the above, what does this mean?

It is possible that train goes from 'A' to 'B' where 'B' is a small
city, which still does not have a computer. (hard to think of an
example where a terminating station is still not linked to computer).
In that case, 'B' may have a return journey quota.


> Shouldn't - say - the entire Vadodara-Mumbai Vadodara Exp be available
> for booking at all windows in all cities linked to the Mumbai computer
> system? Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks!

This is largely true except for quotas from stations which are
not linked to the computer system.

-dheeraj

--------------
Dheeraj Sanghi +91 (512) 59-7077 (Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering +91 (512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology +91 (512) 59-0725 (Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email

From: SHANKAR <shankie@emirates.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 21 Jan 1998 02:38:00 -0500


Helo Steven,
Thanx for your interesting e-mail. Just a few observations:
1. You forget, my friend, India is as yet a DEVELOPING nation. There are
n number of railfans in India, in fact, quite a few people regularly send
"letters to the editor" in all leading newspapers,lamenting tragedies like
hasty disposal of steam, railways in general etc.
But no one has the funds to go out to work and restore old locomotives.
Railways are a Government body in India,funds are woefully scarce,add to
that taxes.And hand to mouth existance.
Even if you bought a condemned (how I detest that word!) steamer, where does
one run her? All trackage is Govt. owned, so you have another big investment
proposition on your hands.to build private sidings etc.The moment you even
breathe vaguely about such a proposition, you have tax inspectors breathing
down your neck,most of them out to make a fast buck."If that guy can "waste"
(well,for them it is) that much money on a condemned engine,he mst be loaded!"
Taxation is at times rather dictatorial,in India!
The groups in India are far too heterogenous.Demograhic problems.Co-ordination
for such a venture is almost impossible.
Last but not the least,info about rolling stock is very limited in India.
Believe it or not,much of what I know about of India's railways is info
gathered from FOREIGN BOOKS With that base,you start nosing around.
India is a very security conscious country,and officials go overboard at
times if anyone shows more than a casual interest in stock or sheds!
Even the Govt.run National Rail Museum is at many times lacking in information,
even about their own exhibits!
Most people at many occasions usually have "better things to do!" It calls for
a National Awakening,so to speak.
Restoring the engine,getting coal,maintaining infrastructure:less than
shoestring budgets,Govt.interference,lack of information,all this makes
preservation by private individuals almost out of question.
All is not lost however.Some privatization is on the anvil.When the Palace
on Wheels mg rake was taken off the rails, it was purchased by a private
party.The rake is now within the Rail Museum grounds in India.Its due to be
converted into a luxury hotel. Preserved,but NOT LIVE,MIND YOU!
Some more similar routes are to be thrown open to private individuals/companies
to run tourist trains.
2. The passenger groups you refer too are usually troubleshooting or pressure
groups,meeting to press their demands for additional train services etc.These
are sometimes called Zonal Rail Users co ordination Committee or something.
3. Maybe YP (meter gauge passenger) locomotives are still around, a handful
of them,as you say.The question is about the WP (broad gauge) engines,most of
which were takenoff the rails ages ago.I really hope and pray that at least
one is found somewhere,by miracle!
Best regards to you my friend, have a nice day.
S.Shankar.


At 11:52 PM 1/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Greetings
>A few thoughts about preserving steam locomotives:
>
>1. We can not depend entirely on government run museums to select and
>preserve railway equipment. Here in the U.S. almost all preservation,
>museums and operating tourist lines exist as a result of private
>organizations efforts. Even the few government museums (California State RR
>Museum or Steamtown) probably would not exist without the support of outside
>railfan groups. I realize that IRFCA alone may not be able to accomplish
>this but I wonder if there are other groups active in India. Royston Ellis's
>book India by Rail makes mention of a bi-weekly Rail News related to Indian
>Railway Passengers ' Conference Association. Perhaps other readers can
>suggest some other clubs groups associations or publications that would be
>supportive of an effort to save and operate steam in India.
>
>2.Steam Locomotives were being advertized along with other scrap in the
>classifieds of The Economic Times. The last ad has yet to run. The
>remaining YP and YG's may be advertized as scrap quite suddenly shortly
>after their final runs.
>
>3. The recent ending of steam in Pakistan will mean that a number of
>pre-partition broad guage locomotives will need saving from scrap.
>Details: <A HREF="http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/pakis3.htm">http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/steam/trains/pakis3.htm</A>
>_______________________________________________
>Steven Brown
>Indian Railways Homepage <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
>>
>
>
>

From: Siddhartha Joshi <siddha@phy.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 21 Jan 1998 23:29:00 -0500


Hallo Everybody,

This is with reference to Shankar's mail.

>> 1. You forget, my friend, India is as yet a DEVELOPING nation. There
>> are n number of railfans in India, in fact, quite a few people
>> regularly send "letters to the editor" in all leading
>> newspapers,lamenting tragedies like hasty disposal of steam, railways
>> in general etc.

Our being a developing nation has nothing to do with it. More like the
mindset that too many of us seem to have. We have a
number of enthusiasts in every field spending large sums of money on their
interests. What probably keeps (potential) steam loco enthusiasts from
following working on restoring and running these steamers are land
restrictions. To run even a short (say 10 - 30 km) line requires
procurement of a large amount of land. What we require is a little
innovation on the part of the railways. They could offer an incentive in
providing some stretches of (maybe now unused ) rail track for running
restored locos. Facilities will already exist. It makes absolutely no
sense bringing a steam loco to working order and then putting it in a
museum. A working loco belongs on the tracks.

There was a line about procuring coal. There's no shortage of that either.
And remember, we are not putting all the steam back on the tracks, just a
handful of working locos.

>> Last but not the least,info about rolling stock is very limited in
>> India. Believe it or not,much of what I know about of India's railways
>> is info gathered from FOREIGN BOOKS With that base,you start nosing
>> around.

Well, kudos to those guys who take the trouble to find out about our
railways and write about them. No one here seems to have made the effort.
So like it or not, FOREIGN BOOKS are the main source of our info.
About private operators running these routes, I certainly hope they do !!
That will be a better beginning than any.

>> 3. Maybe YP (meter gauge passenger) locomotives are still around, a
>> handful of them,as you say.The question is about the WP (broad gauge)
>> engines,most of which were takenoff the rails ages ago.I really hope
>> and pray that at least one is found somewhere,by miracle!

YP's are still very much around. Running Ratlam, Indore, Mhow and the
Rajkot-Verawal lines.

Siddhartha.
_______________________________________________________________________________

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@jps.email

Subject: Hasty passengers bloody railways' track record

Date: 21 Jan 1998 08:50:00 -0500


Hi Folks,

Enclosed, please find an article from Indian Express on January
21, 1998. I do not know if the figures are true or not. Here are
some older figures from the book, "History of Bombay Suburban
Railway" by Dr. A.K. Arora published in 1985.

HEAVY TRESSPASSING DEATHS

There were about 5 tresspassing deaths daily on Bombay (Suburban)
Railways. In 1978, the number of deaths were 1809 out of which
1341 were hit by trains while 468 had fallen off the moving
trains.
(Source: The Indian Express, 3rd September 1979)
===================================
Hasty passengers bloody railways' track record
by Sandeep Unnithan

JANUARY 20: A four hundred tonne suburban local hurtling at over
60 kilometres an hour, a hasty trespasser who prefers bounding
over the tracks to using the foot over bridge, the sickening sound
that accompanies a dismembered body, and Mumbai's rails have
notched up yet another statistic.

Every day, nearly half a dozen people are killed or maimed in the
path of a speeding train while running across rail tracks. Between
July and December last year, the Western Railway (WR) recorded 252
cases of trespassers being maimed or killed, while the Central
Railway recorded 387 cases between April and November.

``It's like playing Russian Roulette. People seem to take their
chances on the tracks rather than face the slight inconvenience of
taking a foot over bridge,'' remarks CR CPRO Mukul Marwah.
Authorities estimate that each such accident delays at least a
dozen trains, while inconveniencing at least 50,000 commuters. The
effects of a single such incident reverberate down the line.
Railway procedures insist thatmotormen get off trains, inform
railway police, make out a panchnama and clear the body. Following
the rules, though, also ensures that the train is held up for at
least half an hour, which triggers off a cascading effect with
trains being held up right down the line.

``About a third of train timings are lost to people killed on rail
tracks,'' says WR CPRO Ravindra Tandon, who adds that WR could run
its services one and a half per cent better than its current 96
per cent efficiency if such incidents were avoided.

Hot spots which record the maximum number of rail kills include
Wadala, Kalyan, Thane, Bandra, Dadar and Kurla. And a major cause
of rail kills are the bustling hutments, shops and all, thriving
bang alongside the tracks.

Then there's the human toll. Motormen who not only have to watch
helplessly as trespassers are run over but even retrieve
dismemebered bodies and wailing victims, suffer high blood
pressure and emotional strain. Senior motorman V K Sonawane
couldn't eat after he saw the contents of a victim's tiffin box
spilt over the tracks. He wonders why motormen in India can't be
given a week off to help them recover from the trauma, like their
counterparts in the London Metro. And motorman V L Limaye shudders
as he remembered the smell of a trespasser's burning flesh, seared
on the red-hot train wheels.

``We feel guilty and tense,'' he says. ``Since everyone in the
city is so busy, they're always on the look out for short cuts,''
says 47-year-old motorman Jayant Nimsudkar. Motormen have to rely
only on the train's shrill whistle connected to a foot pedal and a
hand-controlled vacuum brake to prevent mishaps. Both are futile
when trespassers sometimes choose to ignore the whistle and the
train's braking distance of around 400-metres, which makes it a
toss between death and grievous injury. A bulk of the rail kills
are suicides. ``While a majority of school students cross the
tracks morning and evening, we have to be extra cautious during
the exam period,'' reveals motorman S H Ayubi.

So what are the railways doing about it? ``While trespassing is an
offence under the Indian Railway Act, it is the kind of
infringement where strong-arm methods cannot be used, as lakhs of
people do it every day,'' says Marwah. He points out that it would
be impossible for the railways to police a 120-km stretch of rail
track. Changing people's attitudes is the only solution, he says.

Copyright c 1998 Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd.
======================

Reply To: prakash@us.email

From: Larry Russell <lrussell@direct.email

Subject: Palace on Wheels

Date: 22 Jan 1998 16:25:00 -0500


Does anyone know details on the type of accomodation available on this
train in India? I have a request from my travel agent from someone,
travelling 3 people and if they can accomodate 3 in a room? Just how is the
room arrangement on the train?

From: Larry Russell <lrussell@direct.email

Subject: Indian Railways photography permits

Date: 22 Jan 1998 16:30:00 -0500


Hi all, am off to India (Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Vadodara, Agra, Varanasi,
Mughal Serai, Calcutta and in between. I've written to IR in Delhi for
permits, but have recieved no word. It is now less than 2 weeks to
departure, any ideas to break through the barrier of silence??? Any
contacts I can telephone?
Thanks for any help,
Larry Russell, Associate Editor, Extra 2200 South "The Locomotive Newsmagazine"

From: sank <sank@telco.email

Subject: Re: WP Steam Locos

Date: 23 Jan 1998 18:11:00 -0500


Henry Posner III wrote:

> This is a repeat of a message I had circulated last year,but am
> repeating in case new subscribers and/or recent travelers can help:
>
> We are looking to obtain 2 WP (streamlined broad gauge 4-6-2) steam
> locos for preservation .We are aware of 2 that were at Moradabad for the
> "Palace On Wheels" but never used and now in unknown condition.Has
> anyone seen these locos recently,or better are there any other WP in
> existence outside of the museum(s)?
>
> We have been attempting to work through official channels,but these have
> proven inconclusive.Hence our desire to use the unofficial network to
> confirm any physical sightings.

Last year, in May, I saw two withdrawn WP locos on a siding outside
Haridwar station (towards Dehradun). I do not know if they are still
there.....can anyone confirm ?

--
Jayant S*ID Studio*TTIL*TELCO
Pimpri*Pune 411 018*INDIA*tel:91-212-774261 exn 2534
Email me at "sank@telco.email. Do NOT use your "reply" button !

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